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APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?


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1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

I guess recognizing facetiousness is a lost art.

 

Did you not realize I was ridiculing the concept of not protecting cruisers? Please read @Fouremco's reply: he gets it....

I began with Imo. My response was a reaction to your statement which seemed to be a pretty concise synopsis of another posters remarks.

 Sorry if you didn’t get it either. 🌺🌼🌺

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I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

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6 minutes ago, RICCruisers said:

I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

Agreed.

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45 minutes ago, npcl said:

one item. they mention that in case someone tests positive, they will be removed from the ship as soon as it can be done safely.  Does not mention how the person will get home, who will be responsible for their expenses, etc.

Good point

 

Also, what about your cabin mate

Do they leave or get quarantined?

 

So many ifs 

 

This is not seeming like a vacation to me.

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22 minutes ago, RICCruisers said:

I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

Yes, because they could become positive and just not able to wear a mask 

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26 minutes ago, RICCruisers said:

I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

No flaming here. While I feel very sorry for those unable to wear a mask, I agree that there shouldn't be any exception to the requirement to wear one.

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another issue is since the test is for screening for travel, it might not be considered to be medically necessary by insurance. depending on where the test is taken and the lab analyzing it, it can get rather expensive  not sure how many have put that cost into their travel plans.

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1 hour ago, RICCruisers said:

I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

I suppose you believe any old mask works...it’s all a farce...I wear a Gaitor type thing when required by stores, otherwise, nothing...I’m not walking around outside wearing a mask anywhere..

 

 

Edited by PTC DAWG
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The published Healthy Sail Panel recommendations are quite thorough and I believe well done. Regarding passengers, it is quite clear that prior to embarkation, among other stipulations, guests will need to attest adherence to and compliance with all requirements while onboard. Failure to do so will result in denial of boarding.

 

I saw nothing pertinent to guest behavior once on the ship and what consequences could result from failure to comply. Apparently there are none specified. In an effort to be "guest sensitive" perhaps the panel thought it best not to rile the paying people. So there you go. I don't see any individual cruise line establishing their own penalties since it has not been recommended to do so. I wonder how folks will feel about that.

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10 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

By the way.... the curve has been flattened and deaths are back to almost exact numbers of pre-Covid days.   I do believe we are on the way to much better days ahead. Cruising included. 

covid deaths.jpg

Unfortunately, that's not a "flattened" curve. 

 

That curve reflects getting in a car when it's cold out and not realizing that the heat is cranked all the way up. 

 

After driving for a while, it hits you that it's getting really hot in there and you're sweating.    What you SHOULD do is look, and realizing it was set to 90,you back the temp off to the comfortable 72 that you like, or maybe pick 65 for a minute and then home in on 72. Then the temp comes down to a comfortable level that is sustainable. 

 

Instead, that chart reflects a reaction where you don't even look at the temperature setting.  You just crank the temp down to 50 or turn the heat off entirely. Sure enough, it cooled off again.   But you were spooked by the heat...  so you don't want to touch the dial.  You turn it up a little and it gets warmer. It's still cold, but you're skittish so you turn it back down, afraid that it's going to get hot. 

 

The problem is that it's never going to get to a comfortable temperature unless you let it get warmer. 

 

That chart is reflecting an over-reaction that is setting us up for a "second wave" as soon as things are relaxed. 

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53 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

The published Healthy Sail Panel recommendations are quite thorough and I believe well done. Regarding passengers, it is quite clear that prior to embarkation, among other stipulations, guests will need to attest adherence to and compliance with all requirements while onboard. Failure to do so will result in denial of boarding.

 

I saw nothing pertinent to guest behavior once on the ship and what consequences could result from failure to comply. Apparently there are none specified. In an effort to be "guest sensitive" perhaps the panel thought it best not to rile the paying people. So there you go. I don't see any individual cruise line establishing their own penalties since it has not been recommended to do so. I wonder how folks will feel about that.

no need to specify new penalties.

 

it would fall under failure to obey crew instructions, the penalty of which can include being put off at next port.

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53 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

The published Healthy Sail Panel recommendations are quite thorough and I believe well done. Regarding passengers, it is quite clear that prior to embarkation, among other stipulations, guests will need to attest adherence to and compliance with all requirements while onboard. Failure to do so will result in denial of boarding.

 

I saw nothing pertinent to guest behavior once on the ship and what consequences could result from failure to comply. Apparently there are none specified. In an effort to be "guest sensitive" perhaps the panel thought it best not to rile the paying people. So there you go. I don't see any individual cruise line establishing their own penalties since it has not been recommended to do so. I wonder how folks will feel about that.

 

They want to sail their ships. They have to walk a fine line with government agaencies but equally as important, they NEED the funding from passengers. It sounds like to me, that they realize that while posters on cruise critic may be vocal, they understand that there will not be enough paying customers to float the boat with EXTREME MEASURES that has been suggested. No pun intended. There will not be any plank walking and the mentioned entertainment of watching people getting kicked off a ship and left stranded. 

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9 hours ago, npcl said:

no need to specify new penalties.

 

it would fall under failure to obey crew instructions, the penalty of which can include being put off at next port.

True. And the HSP recommendations are proposed guidelines at the moment.

X Corporate in Miami has people who read this board. So by now they are aware of a certain group of people who have no intention of complying with future policies once on board.

Hopefully the final version of the rules will stipulate what you have stated.

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12 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

Sorry.

No Mask = No Cruise.

PERIOD.

 

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18 minutes ago, BridgeMates said:

The cruise lines haven't done anything about "comfort" pets with fake documentation so why assume they won't honor medical (fake or not) documentation that passengers have for not having to wear a mask?  😷

Because the cruise lines continuing existence is based on executing this correctly.

If the cruise lines screw this up and get shut down again, they are out of business.

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Taking the cruise lines past record on enforcing their own rules, guidelines = low probability they will challenge guests.

 

Revenue is the ONLY thing that matters to cruise lines so I am and will remain very suspicious of anything the cruise lines say, promise or do. I do not trust the cruise lines period.

 

 

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13 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I suppose you believe any old mask works...it’s all a farce...I wear a Gaitor type thing when required by stores, otherwise, nothing...I’m not walking around outside wearing a mask anywhere..

 

 

Then stay home. Have respect for your fellow humans. You are the problem..

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15 hours ago, RICCruisers said:

I’m ready to get flamed, but here is my opinion about what I have read about the CLIA/CDC Mask policy. They state that everyone is required to wear masks indoors where social distancing is not possible. UNLESS they have some type of medical condition that either creates a breathing issue or they are not able to wear a mask.  

 

I ask - Why should those people be allowed on a ship in the first place. A condition of sailing should be that everyone allowed to cruise must have the ability to wear a mask. If you have a condition that inhibits you from wearing a mask you shouldn’t be on a ship. 

 

There is no medical condition (I have a caveat that follows) that creates a breathing issue when one wears a mask.  It's all in their head.  My neurosurgeon is asthmatic and he has zero issues in wearing a mask when he operates.  A friend of mine has COPD, they have zero issues in wearing a mask.  And if there IS some magical medical condition that supposedly prevents that person from wearing a mask, they better have proof of it from a doctor before boarding a ship.

 

The only legitimate reasons for someone not wearing a mask is that they're under 2 years old and someone who is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.  People with chronic pulmonary diseases shouldn't avoid wearing a mask, if anything that's more of a reason to wear one!

 

Now then, for that caveat, there are people with autism who could find that wearing a mask intolerable, even for a short period of time.  But that's not a breathing issue.

 

There is medical proof that wearing a mask does absolutely nothing to impede one's breathing and oxygenation of the blood.

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18 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Taking the cruise lines past record on enforcing their own rules, guidelines = low probability they will challenge guests.

 

Revenue is the ONLY thing that matters to cruise lines so I am and will remain very suspicious of anything the cruise lines say, promise or do. I do not trust the cruise lines period.

 

 

I don’t trust that the cruise lines can prevent us from getting sick with their suggested precautions— they can’t possibly enforce them even if they are completely diligent.  
 

Then there is that other issue of whether I want to cruise with the hoops the cruise lines would have pax jump through to pay for a vacation and the possibility that insurance would cover all possibilities and testings and the impossible logistics.

 

So, as another poster suggested, I will stay home until I feel it is safe or safer at least.

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18 hours ago, Pinboy said:

Page 8 -- Holy Cow, there's a lot of dumb comments on this thread --- Ok , Ok, IMO !!

If the RULES stipulate to wear a mask , social distance, or whatever the hell the RULES are--- Follow them !!!

Leave your  " Entitlement " at home . Nobody gives a " hoot "  ( we use another word here ) who the hell you think you are , yup, nobody !!  

 

 

LOL---- Page 9 --- Let's go for a record 65 pages as in--- Oh, never mind !!!

( Here come the " So move on and don't read them " )

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11 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

The published Healthy Sail Panel recommendations are quite thorough and I believe well done. Regarding passengers, it is quite clear that prior to embarkation, among other stipulations, guests will need to attest adherence to and compliance with all requirements while onboard. Failure to do so will result in denial of boarding.

 

I saw nothing pertinent to guest behavior once on the ship and what consequences could result from failure to comply. Apparently there are none specified. In an effort to be "guest sensitive" perhaps the panel thought it best not to rile the paying people. So there you go. I don't see any individual cruise line establishing their own penalties since it has not been recommended to do so. I wonder how folks will feel about that.

Spif,

The HS Panel Recommendations are pretty thorough but if I have to cruise this way I personally will not cruise.  I will wait for a vaccine and wait for it to take effect in a population that will develop the level of acquired (herd) immunity necessary to make me feel safe and comfortable on a cruise vacation again.  And a vacation that meets my criteria (have worry-free fun).  Cruising is a nice-to-do but a necessity in life for me.  It is not a constitutional or human right either.  Or a democracy. It is a private vacation purchase with the provider making the rules and regulations.  If they say No Masks or anything else and people are uncomfortable then they should simply choose another outlet for their vacation dollars. If a person is in a poor health category that puts them at increased risk or if they cannot wear a mask if it is required to cruise then they can just go elsewhere to spend vacation dollars.  Pretty simple to me anyway.😀

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