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jhannah

Comment on Restarting Cruising

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Anytime I hear about dining inside a restaurant, I remember this chart. It was posted on several sites. 

I know everyone has to do what they think is best for them, but I won't be dining inside a restaurant soon. I know of at least 3 people right now who have tested positive, thought they were being careful,  and  have no idea how they were exposed. 😞  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-restaurant-air-conditioning-gave-nine-people-covid-china-2020-4

 

 

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13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I don't think we are getting off topic.  Restarting cruising is as important to many of us as being able to restart other parts of our life.

 

The CDC report alarms me with regard to in-restaurant dining and a positive Covid test.  People have to remove their masks when they dine.  People talk while eating.  That's when the virus, if they have it, could escape into the air.  Even with social distancing in a restaurant, how well am I going to be protected?  

According to the guidance I've read, dining in a restaurant should follow this procedure that required wearing a mask when interfacing with staff.

- Arrive at restaurant wearing a mask.

- Once seated, you can remove mask.

- When waiter brings menu, must replace mask since 'interfacing'.

- Waiter leaves, you can remove mask.

- Server arrives to take drink order, replace mask, more interfacting.

- Server leaves to fetch drinks, remove mask.

- Server brings drinks, replace mask, more interfacing.

repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

It's absurd to think that removing mask while eating/drinking provides any significant level of protection.

Very much like the report here on CC that stated they had to wear a mask while walking across the parking lot to the restaurant but once inside they could remove the mask.  Then they had to replace the mask to walk back to their car.  

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On 9/18/2020 at 11:38 AM, grsnovi said:

In the grand scheme of COVID problems I don't think that the cruise industry was any worse than some countries. What was worse was the hysteria surrounding the ships that were en-route and who were unable to dock to let passengers and crew off. I thought I'd go over to the site and perhaps post a comment however the number and details of the questions seems to suggest that any analysis of the answers will run to years and be irrelevant to any decision. A large % of the population seems to ignore the CDC's guidelines on masks, why should we expect comments on this to carry any more weight? Sorry for being negative, the wild fires here in Oregon are of more concern to me at the moment than the possibility of cruising again in 2022 or 23...

 

 

I agree with some of these comments, The cruise ships are NOT the problem.  Anyone who has traveled HAL knows the efforts that have benn made at sanitizing and avoiding desease and this was long before Covid 19.

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I did reply weeks ago and have read numerous protocols from European cruises and proposed protocols.  I am content with playing along so I can travel.   I think there have to be some serious adjustments to Maritime Law, as the lack of aid from ports last winter was a poor example of modern living.  There has to be a humane way to contain people in quarantine, that is not being discussed.   For me that is my only fear - being stuck on a plague ship.

 

I do believe that we cannot legislate based on the sickest among us in every instance. This is a leisure activity not a necessity.

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Every one of us assumes risks every time you go out of your driveway, or take a flight, or go anywhere.   You could have an accident, you could encounter germs anywhere.... 

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8 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

According to the guidance I've read, dining in a restaurant should follow this procedure that required wearing a mask when interfacing with staff.

- Arrive at restaurant wearing a mask.

- Once seated, you can remove mask.

- When waiter brings menu, must replace mask since 'interfacing'.

- Waiter leaves, you can remove mask.

- Server arrives to take drink order, replace mask, more interfacting.

- Server leaves to fetch drinks, remove mask.

- Server brings drinks, replace mask, more interfacing.

repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

While I understand the thinking behind producing this protocol, for me, it is not patron friendly if I choose to dine in a restaurant.  

 

I'm glad that my Mother taught me how to cook.  I think it is going to be quite awhile before I spend any money dining in a restaurant.  

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9 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

According to the guidance I've read, dining in a restaurant should follow this procedure that required wearing a mask when interfacing with staff.

- Arrive at restaurant wearing a mask.

- Once seated, you can remove mask.

- When waiter brings menu, must replace mask since 'interfacing'.

- Waiter leaves, you can remove mask.

- Server arrives to take drink order, replace mask, more interfacting.

- Server leaves to fetch drinks, remove mask.

- Server brings drinks, replace mask, more interfacing.

repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

It's absurd to think that removing mask while eating/drinking provides any significant level of protection.

Very much like the report here on CC that stated they had to wear a mask while walking across the parking lot to the restaurant but once inside they could remove the mask.  Then they had to replace the mask to walk back to their car.  

the issue is when dining in inside space is with the amount of ventilation, or lack there of. when someone is talking without a mask studies have shown particulates may travel up to 12 feet.  Without ventilation the smaller particles can hang in the air longer and potentially float even further. Also when eating one is likely to be in that same spot for an extended period of time  So if their is an infected person within range, the amount of virus exposure could be higher due to duration if contact.

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39 minutes ago, npcl said:

the issue is when dining in inside space is with the amount of ventilation, or lack there of. when someone is talking without a mask studies have shown particulates may travel up to 12 feet.  Without ventilation the smaller particles can hang in the air longer and potentially float even further. Also when eating one is likely to be in that same spot for an extended period of time  So if their is an infected person within range, the amount of virus exposure could be higher due to duration if contact.

 

So?  What is your recommendation for dining inside a restaurant?  With any degree of hopeful success of not contracting Covid-19 while I enjoy a bone-in Rib Eye Steak, medium rare, please.

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30 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

So?  What is your recommendation for dining inside a restaurant?  With any degree of hopeful success of not contracting Covid-19 while I enjoy a bone-in Rib Eye Steak, medium rare, please.

hope that no one close to you is infected. Select fine ding with slow turnover to cut the number of people that are in the tables near to you by cutting table turnover. Ask for a table in a corner or against a wall in a low traffic area which will also cut down on the number of potential infected individuals.

 

Even if it is indoor if there are open windows with air flowing in would also be a good choice.

 

Basically do what you can to improve your odds, by reducing number of contacts close by.

 

if you are concerned, cut the duration of time spent, but if you are doing that you might a well get it to go, since the time to enjoy is part of the experience.

 

Indoor dining, just like indoor lounges, are difficult areas largely for the reasons mentioned, as well as they are very much social environments. the 6 foot distance is not enough according to studies and some resturaunts fudge on that.

 

In Korea they tend to put plexi glass barriers between the tables which they think helps.

 

. if you know of any of the old style steak places that use semi private dining nooks, that would certainly help.

Edited by npcl

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1 hour ago, npcl said:

the issue is when dining in inside space is with the amount of ventilation, or lack there of. when someone is talking without a mask studies have shown particulates may travel up to 12 feet.  Without ventilation the smaller particles can hang in the air longer and potentially float even further. Also when eating one is likely to be in that same spot for an extended period of time  So if their is an infected person within range, the amount of virus exposure could be higher due to duration if contact.

That's nice but irrelevant to the absurdity of rules requiring one to mask on every time someone approaches the table.  One can easily construct a scenario where one masks and unmasks 10 to 20 times.  And, each masking/unmasking requires touching the mask/face which contributes to spreading the virus.  BTW, aren't you supposed to wash your hands prior to putting the mask on and again after taking it off?

My second point was that wearing a mask is more important inside the restaurant than walking across the parking lot where ventilation isn't an issue.  So why does it make sense to wear a mask walking across the parking lot only to take if off once inside?

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2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

While I understand the thinking behind producing this protocol, for me, it is not patron friendly if I choose to dine in a restaurant.  

 

I'm glad that my Mother taught me how to cook.  I think it is going to be quite awhile before I spend any money dining in a restaurant.  

We simply choose not to patronize restaurants.  My mother taught me how to cook as well.  Frankly my home grilled steak exceeds most restaurants and my prime rib is wonderful. 

 

We live within easy walking distance of our country club restaurant.  We used to dine their once a week because we like the service.  We haven't dined there since this masking/social distancing started.  We have done take out there and elsewhere.  Dining in simply isn't worth the trouble.

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From what I have read the restaurants will operate much like restaurants at home.  Tables distanced, sitting only with your personal traveling unit, masking until seated.  Why would those same protocols not be sufficient for cruising.   I still think that all of this will be behind is by late spring.  And I think there are plenty of youthful and healthy people willing to fill ships to the new capacities. 

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2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Dining in simply isn't worth the trouble.

 

That is my conclusion as well.

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9 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

 And I think there are plenty of youthful and healthy people willing to fill ships to the new capacities. 

 

Yes.  There will be those willing to sail just as soon as it is possible for them to do so.  Who can dispute that?

 

11 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

   I still think that all of this will be behind is by late spring

 

I respect your opinion.  As my Minister says at the end of each segment of her congregational prayer:  "God of all Mercy, let it be so".  

 

13 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

masking

 

The requirement of wearing a mask throughout a cruise will eliminate any possibility of me booking a cruise on any ship to anywhere.  

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1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

So?  What is your recommendation for dining inside a restaurant?  With any degree of hopeful success of not contracting Covid-19 while I enjoy a bone-in Rib Eye Steak, medium rare, please.

 

I have not eaten inside a restaurant very often lately. In AZ, as I understand it, one is supposed to leave the mask on until after ordering and the first food is served. I go early ( 11 am for lunch and 3:30 pm for dinner) when there are very few people  and sit at a table as far away from people as possible. I also only go to restaurants where I have often gone in the past and know the servers. And I only go with one other person, no groups. 

 

Don't know if these "rules" would work on a cruise.

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Thanks OP for posting the link - I added my comments.  I served once on a federal advisory committee and our task was to formulate regulations on the assigned subject, including reviewing and considering all the public comments.  As a committee member, I personally read every single comment.  This link was an RFI - and I think CDC does want opinions and suggestions though I am sure they already have plenty of ideas and input from the stakeholders.

 

I'm ready to start cruising again when the cruise lines are, presuming they are taking proper precautions.  A vaccine would be nice, but it will never be 100% protection so it's not a prerequisite; I'll stick with common sense and what the scientists like Dr. Fauci recommend and ignore the politicians.

 

Our life continues pretty much the same as usual except for wearing face coverings in public, and for me, surgical or N95 masks at the office.  DH has retired, but I didn't become a physician so I could stay away from sick people.  I live in a hotel during the work week as I am a "travel doc" filling in at a rural clinic where they are trying to recruit a new doc and need someone to see patients until they find one.  Honestly I don't see any pandemic difference in the hotel except that they clean the room only once a week, and they don't have a breakfast buffet anymore.  That's OK, there's a fridge, stove and microwave in my room.

 

We've been out to dinner in a restaurant twice since this pandemic began, each time was a special occasion with our kids visiting.  There was plenty of spacing of tables, the servers wore masks, and we wore our masks until we were seated.  Capacity seemed to be below the permitted 50% and our group was 5 people, the limit at the time.  Usually if we want restaurant dinners, we order delivery and eat at home.  After working out of town all week (pre-made grocery store meals, salads, sandwiches in the hotel room) I'd rather stay home for dinner.

 

We've had three cruises and two major music festivals canceled out from under us so we are planning a national park vacation next month,  3 hours drive from home.  Enjoyable in a different way from the vacations we had planned, but hey, we'll stay at a pet-friendly place and take our dog with us instead of boarding her.

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Comments submitted this weekend.   I have confidence the cruise lines will put on a good show of cleaning procedures and new standards but it's all going to fall apart with the guests.  People are proving daily they can not be trusted; just wait on a ship when people don't feel like following any new rules and steamroll right over the staff trying to enforce it.  And while I expect a HAL traveler to be seasoned and more able to be content with a quiet time; how are they going to be on Carnival when they are bored to death after 3 days and everyone wants to line up at guest services to cash out their monster OBC's? I predict the same mob style riots guests on Carnival throw when they miss a port stop at Nassau. How will cruise lines manage the guests? 

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6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I have never heard of a riot on a cruise ship,  @LMaxwell   Maybe you could provide a link to a news article.

I guess it depends on what you want to call a riot but the Norwegian Pirit cruise of October, 2019 was portrayed that way in some news sources.  For example....

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/passengers-cruise-ship-riot-over-cancelled-stops-and-stale-food-2019-10

 

 

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1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

I guess it depends on what you want to call a riot but the Norwegian Pirit cruise of October, 2019 was portrayed that way in some news sources.  For example....

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/passengers-cruise-ship-riot-over-cancelled-stops-and-stale-food-2019-10

 

 

There are 9 people holding signs, far from a riot.  Not good PR but not a riot either.  I think all of us who are booking for 2021 are pretty aware of the options that may face us.  

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1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

There are 9 people holding signs, far from a riot.  Not good PR but not a riot either.  I think all of us who are booking for 2021 are pretty aware of the options that may face us.  

I didn’t say it was a riot.  You asked for a link to a news article and I provided one.  There are others in the same vein.

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1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

I didn’t say it was a riot.  You asked for a link to a news article and I provided one.  There are others in the same vein.

I was just following the thread.  I asked @LMaxwell for an example of a riot, his words,  and you offered a substitute.   I realize you didn't call it a riot.

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10 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I was just following the thread.  I asked @LMaxwell for an example of a riot, his words,  and you offered a substitute.   I realize you didn't call it a riot.

 

 

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As for the NCL Spirit watch this video; at one point over 500 ppl crammed the lobby berating the Captain who took off to hide from the mob.  Not just the few folks holding a sign.  Look at the size of angry crowds 

 

 

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Anyways, you can simply go to youtube and type NCL fight or carnival fight and you will see all kinds of outrageous guest behavior set off by the smallest thing. And security doesn't really do much. How are they going to enforce any distancing/mask regulations? What is the plan if a guest won't comply? There's only so much security force onboard a ship. Guests are the weakest part of the equation here, not the cruise lines. 

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