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Elaine5715

Haters Trying To Influence CDC

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/royal-caribbean-ceo-anti-cruisers-sabotaging-cdc-public-comments/ar-BB19dgUX?li=BBnbklE   

 

If you want to counterbalance cruise haters, get your comments in now  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger#open-comment

 

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways  

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I really do not know why they even put the blog out there.  They have been fine with their battering ram approach.  I doubt they would be swayed by ANYTHING the public says.

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26 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I really do not know why they even put the blog out there.  They have been fine with their battering ram approach.  I doubt they would be swayed by ANYTHING the public says.

Like all Federal agencies, they are supposed to listen to public input.

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3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

 . . . They have been fine with their battering ram approach.  I doubt they would be swayed by ANYTHING the public says.

 

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Like all Federal agencies, they are supposed to listen to public input.

 

They have been listening to public input . . . routinely for several months.  

 

I want cruising to return in a BIG way (admittedly for very selfish reasons).  I've had multiple 2020 sailings cancelled, and am one of those currently booked on what is potentially the first days back in early November.  I know the experience will be quite different as a passenger, and I can sincerely hope that the various lines have figured out how to overcome the challenges surrounding crew health safety << more difficult than for us passengers.

 

.

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58 minutes ago, DGP1111 said:

 

 

They have been listening to public input . . . routinely for several months.  

 

I want cruising to return in a BIG way (admittedly for very selfish reasons).  I've had multiple 2020 sailings cancelled, and am one of those currently booked on what is potentially the first days back in early November.  I know the experience will be quite different as a passenger, and I can sincerely hope that the various lines have figured out how to overcome the challenges surrounding crew health safety << more difficult than for us passengers.

 

.

Not sure I would agree, but i hope you  are correct, on all counts.

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12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways

I'm not really sure why the CDC posted the request for information, unless it is a federal agency requirement for changing regulations, and I'm really sure that comments by the public, with little or no public health education or training are given very little weight.

 

The above statement is indicative of how misunderstood the CDC's mandate is.  Their mandate, is not to protect the health of passengers on cruise ships.  Their mandate is to prevent the introduction of disease into the US, and even if every cruiser were to sign a statement accepting the risks to themselves, there is the risk of someone bringing the disease back and starting a new community spread to possibly hundreds or thousands of others.

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19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Their mandate is to prevent the introduction of disease into the US

The way that I look at things, at this point in time, continuing to ban cruises isn’t in the interest of preventing the introduction of a disease into the US. It’s already here and spreading in places and ways that have nothing to do with cruise ships, and that aren’t as severely restricted. The CDC has done little to restrict those. It could be argued that the disease could’ve had a wider spread without the no sail order, but the fact remains that it did little to stop it.

 

At this point in time, I think that we are beyond banning cruise ships (which at the beginning of this pandemic and not understanding how the virus spread was the necessary response), but we’ve moved into a time when we do know how it spreads and what measures we can take to prevent that from happening. I’m obviously not an expert in the matter, but I do believe that continuing a no sail order does little to accomplish the CDC’s mission to prevent the introduction of a virus in the US  that’s already here. 

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whats the difference between an international flight from airplane  landing in the USA and bring in covid and a ship with covid? Both have risk of the virus entering the US

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When is the madness going stop?  Are we going to stop living?  We can't  cruise. We can't go to sports events. Kids can't trick or treat.  Fall festivals are being canceled.  People have to work 8+ hours a day wearing a mask and that's not healthy.  Kids can't go to school and parents are struggling to keep up.  This is not living.  Sorry, I just had to get this out.

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2 hours ago, Tapi said:

The way that I look at things, at this point in time, continuing to ban cruises isn’t in the interest of preventing the introduction of a disease into the US. It’s already here and spreading in places and ways that have nothing to do with cruise ships, and that aren’t as severely restricted. The CDC has done little to restrict those. It could be argued that the disease could’ve had a wider spread without the no sail order, but the fact remains that it did little to stop it.

 

At this point in time, I think that we are beyond banning cruise ships (which at the beginning of this pandemic and not understanding how the virus spread was the necessary response), but we’ve moved into a time when we do know how it spreads and what measures we can take to prevent that from happening. I’m obviously not an expert in the matter, but I do believe that continuing a no sail order does little to accomplish the CDC’s mission to prevent the introduction of a virus in the US  that’s already here. 


Very good post with several good points. Despite agreeing with you, I still expect the CDC to extend the no sail order for reasons beyond the virus itself. 

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5 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


Very good post with several good points. Despite agreeing with you, I still expect the CDC to extend the no sail order for reasons beyond the virus itself. 

What are the reasons?

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3 hours ago, Tapi said:

The way that I look at things, at this point in time, continuing to ban cruises isn’t in the interest of preventing the introduction of a disease into the US. It’s already here and spreading in places and ways that have nothing to do with cruise ships, and that aren’t as severely restricted. The CDC has done little to restrict those. It could be argued that the disease could’ve had a wider spread without the no sail order, but the fact remains that it did little to stop it.

 

At this point in time, I think that we are beyond banning cruise ships (which at the beginning of this pandemic and not understanding how the virus spread was the necessary response), but we’ve moved into a time when we do know how it spreads and what measures we can take to prevent that from happening. I’m obviously not an expert in the matter, but I do believe that continuing a no sail order does little to accomplish the CDC’s mission to prevent the introduction of a virus in the US  that’s already here. 

While I, of course, agree that the virus is already in the US, there is the very strong possibility of a cruise ship taking on passengers, spreading the virus, and then re-introducing carriers back into the US.  This is their mandate.  As far as I know, only within the last couple of days have studies shown the possibility of transmission of coronavirus on airplanes, while there is a known history of it on cruise ships, so international air travel may come under more scrutiny in the near future, and new restrictions added.

 

As far as "other places that have noting to do with cruises", I'm assuming you mean gatherings, protests, theme parks, sporting events, and the like?  CDC cannot do anything about these, because that is not in their mandate.  What happens within a state is the responsibility of the state CDC or Public Health Department.

 

From thinking about the "request for information", I believe that many of the measures set forth in the no sail order are about to become Public Health rules and regulations, that passenger vessels will need to meet in order to obtain clearance to enter US ports.  So, while the "no sail" order may expire, many of its requirements may become federal regulations at that point.

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17 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/royal-caribbean-ceo-anti-cruisers-sabotaging-cdc-public-comments/ar-BB19dgUX?li=BBnbklE   

 

If you want to counterbalance cruise haters, get your comments in now  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger#open-comment

 

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways  

 

"Haters"?  So everyone who isn't a fan of cruising is a hater now? :classic_dry:

 

The CDC is asking for feedback from the public -- not just from cruisers. Others may have legitimate concerns to voice. That's part of the democratic process.

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I agree that "haters" is pretty strong language.  Even before Covid-19, I found that most people opposed to cruises had never taken a cruise themselves.  I don't think that's changed. The bad press cruises got at the beginning of the pandemic didn't help that opinion.  I don't care if I ever hear the term "floating petri dish" again. ☹️

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17 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways  

But it's  not a public-opinion poll. How can anyone really believe that the CDC is going to determine part of national health policy  by relying on the unscientific opinions of 3,000 cruise-lovers who just want to go on vacation, regardless of the risk? I've read many of the CDC RFI comments and it's scary the number of people who think cruising should resume simply because they love it and it's "safer than Walmart. "

 

Bayley is grandstanding, just woe-is-me preaching to the choir -- poor cruising, under attack from all quarters.

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47 minutes ago, Roz said:

  I don't care if I ever hear the term "floating petri dish" again. ☹️

 

So true -- that's a phrase they should retire. Unfortunately it will come up every time in future there is a case of noro (or anything worse) on a ship. 

 

I would suggest alternatives, but most of the ones I can think of sound even worse.... :classic_biggrin:

Edited by cruisemom42

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18 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/royal-caribbean-ceo-anti-cruisers-sabotaging-cdc-public-comments/ar-BB19dgUX?li=BBnbklE   

 

If you want to counterbalance cruise haters, get your comments in now  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger#open-comment

 

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways  

You see, I don't believe cruisers understand how to protect themselves. Or, they understand, but refuse to comply. Just walk into any store where masks are required and you'll see it only takes one.

Edited by fyree39

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1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Others may have legitimate concerns to voice.

I do. And perhaps it's because we don't know - or do we? - what if any conversations/negotiations have gone on between CDC and the cruise lines. I already felt strongly that masks must be required and considering Drs. Redfield and Fauci's very recenet comments I think it's gotta be. And social distancing. Re vaccines I don't believe there's going to be a strong, proven, available to all vaccine before 2022. So if that's a requirement then that's an entirely different issue.

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3 minutes ago, fyree39 said:

You see, I don't believe cruisers understand how to protect themselves. Or, they understand, but refuse to comply. Just walk into any store where masks are required and you'll see it only takes one.

Totally agree. And if/when there's a vaccine I've not read anything that thinks it will be 100% effective. So combine non-compliance and not-protected and there ya go.

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1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

"Haters"?  So everyone who isn't a fan of cruising is a hater now? :classic_dry:

 

The CDC is asking for feedback from the public -- not just from cruisers. Others may have legitimate concerns to voice. That's part of the democratic process.

 Stand Earth isn't just "not a fan".  Their goal is to end cruising

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1 hour ago, latserrof said:

But it's  not a public-opinion poll. How can anyone really believe that the CDC is going to determine part of national health policy  by relying on the unscientific opinions of 3,000 cruise-lovers who just want to go on vacation, regardless of the risk? I've read many of the CDC RFI comments and it's scary the number of people who think cruising should resume simply because they love it and it's "safer than Walmart. "

 

Bayley is grandstanding, just woe-is-me preaching to the choir -- poor cruising, under attack from all quarters.

Being in an industry that frequently comments on proposed Federal legislation, it is shocking how many times the tide is turned on emotional testimony vs facts.  

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7 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 Stand Earth isn't just "not a fan".  Their goal is to end cruising

 

And again, they are entitled to have their say and state their reasons.

 

As already stated above, this is not some kind of popularity contest where having the most "likes" wins. The CDC really is not looking for this kind of feedback anyway. They want responses from those who have knowledge to share about their specific questions.

 

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The CDC needs to listen to Science and not influencers regardless of who they are !

 

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 Stand Earth isn't just "not a fan".  Their goal is to end cruising

 

It doesn’t appear to me that Stand Earth is going to effect the end of cruising. Covid 19, vaccination and treatments, and economics are going to determine the future of cruising.

 

Also even if the CDC says the cruise lines can sail tomorrow that does not mean there will be sufficient bookings to sustain the industry. Just like some have wait and see approach to taking a vaccine...I have a wait and see approach to returning the cruising. The data has to show me a vaccine is safe and the data has to show me that cruising is safe. Trip reports have to indicate that cruising will not be stressful.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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4 hours ago, clo said:

Re vaccines I don't believe there's going to be a strong, proven, available to all vaccine before 2022. So if that's a requirement then that's an entirely different issue.

Not everyone needs to have access to a vaccine for the cruise lines to require vaccination to cruise. As long as a vaccine is available and some people have gotten it, they would be allowed to cruise under that requirement. When enough vaccinated people were interested in cruising, the ships could sail. It doesn’t mean that you or I would have to be able to get vaccinated before cruising could resume.

Vaccines will be available before 2022 but how many will get them is questionable. That isn’t the only way cruising can resume either, unless people with higher powers than CC posters decide so. 

Edited by 2wheelin

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