Haters Trying To Influence CDC

[navybankerteacher]

7 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

 Stand Earth isn't just "not a fan".  Their goal is to end cruising

Just a touch of paranoia?

[Charles4515]

Stand Earth appears to be an environmental group that wants to end the use of fossil fuels. I suppose they want extend the CDC order because with the ships not sailing they are not polluting. A convoluted reason to write the CDC to continue the stop order when the CDC stop order has nothing to do with stopping pollution. I don’t think the CDC will take letters sent by the group seriously. I don’t think the cruise lines take the group seriously and neither should we. The group sent 63 letters. Hardly a massive number. Cruise lines might want focus on the group to stir cruise fans up about the group to get us to write more letters to the CDC supporting cruising. If the CDC has only received 3000 comments that is not much of a response.....

 

Maybe the public does not care right now if cruises restart.

 

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[d9704011]

24 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Maybe the public does not care right now if cruises restart.

Or maybe when people began looking at all the questions being posed (really, a list of all the problems associated with cruising and the virus) people realized that they really don’t have adequate answers and ‘I just want to get back to cruising’ wouldn’t carry much weight.

 

As for the general public, I’m pretty sure they don’t much care about the cruise industry; they have many more issues to occupy their attention.

Edited September 21, 2020 by d9704011

[clo]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

There are sufficient booking now. 60% of cancelled cruisers immediately rebooked,  

Do you have a link for that? TIA.

[clo]

28 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

As for the general public, I’m pretty sure they don’t much care about the cruise industry; they have many more issues to occupy their attention.

I have enjoyed ten or so cruises but with all that's going on on this planet cruising isn't on my top 10 list.

 

30 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

‘I just want to get back to cruising’ wouldn’t carry much weight.

Hopefully anyone pro-cruise came up with stuff better than that. But I don't doubt you. At all.

[bigrednole]

Hedge fund managers or wealthy investors can spend a small amount of money to flood it to force a down turn in stock prices. They short sell the stock and make a killing. Then buy low, pump it with positive then sell. Rinse and repeat.

[d9704011]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

Hedge fund managers or wealthy investors can spend a small amount of money to flood it to force a down turn in stock prices. They short sell the stock and make a killing. Then buy low, pump it with positive then sell. Rinse and repeat.

I have a small amount of money.  Does that make me a hedge fund manager?  I’m certainly not a wealthy investor.  Would this influence the CDC’s decision making process?

[K32682]

22 hours ago, Butterbean1000 said:

When is the madness going stop?  Are we going to stop living?  We can't  cruise. We can't go to sports events. Kids can't trick or treat.  Fall festivals are being canceled.  People have to work 8+ hours a day wearing a mask and that's not healthy.  Kids can't go to school and parents are struggling to keep up.  This is not living.  Sorry, I just had to get this out.

 

It is preferable to someone you care about catching the virus from you and dieing a gruesome death on a ventilator because you just had to cram yourself onto a very large boat with thousands of complete strangers.  

 

On 9/20/2020 at 7:49 AM, shof515 said:

whats the difference between an international flight from airplane  landing in the USA and bring in covid and a ship with covid? Both have risk of the virus entering the US

 

Cruise ships need special consideration because spaces are tight and exposure times are much longer.  Managing strict PPE protocols for a few several hours on a flight is much easier than enforcing them with often liquored up cruisers who are in close proximity for a week or more.  One case on a flight present a far smaller risk of spreading to other fliers than one case on the floating viral incubator otherwise known a cruise ships. It's the difference between public transit and nightclubs. 

 

While the primary role of the CDC is to protect Americans, a secondary objective would be to set protocols that will be accepted by other countries who justifiably are wary about letting boatloads of Americans into their ports.   

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by K32682

[bigrednole]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

I have a small amount of money.  Does that make me a hedge fund manager?  I’m certainly not a wealthy investor.  Would this influence the CDC’s decision making process?

When a group a large enough group has short sell positions that require the stock to go down, money in the right pockets can make it happen. Either campaign contributions, wives getting high paying "consultant" contracts, etc. But yes, money can influence decisions. There was an article the other day with insane amounts on the $12.50 option list for CCL. If I recall the article correctly, they were in the 9-figures. So, spend $10M to get $100M. 

[latserrof]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

It is preferable to someone you care about catching the virus from you and dieing a gruesome death on a ventilator because you just had to cram yourself onto a very large boat with thousands of complete strangers.  

 

 

Cruise ships need special consideration because spaces are tight and exposure times are much longer.  Managing strict PPE protocols for a few several hours on a flight is much easier than enforcing them with often liquored up cruisers who are in close proximity for a week or more.  One case on a flight present a far smaller risk of spreading to other fliers than one case on the floating viral incubator otherwise known a cruise ships. It's the difference between public transit and nightclubs. 

 

 

 

And don't forget the consequences: SIck on a plane, the plane lands, you go to the hospital. Sick on a ship, ?, good luck.

[Elaine5715]

12 hours ago, clo said:

Do you have a link for that? TIA.

Google it

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Google it

aka no you don't 🙂

[KnowTheScore]

1 hour ago, latserrof said:

And don't forget the consequences: SIck on a plane, the plane lands, you go to the hospital. Sick on a ship, ?, good luck.

 

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

Even before the advent of COVID your statement is ridiculous.   If you get seriously sick on a ship, then a helicopter is called out and lifts you off and takes you to the nearest on-shore hospital.   The cruise line contract for many lines requires that a passenger's travel insurance covers such eventualities.  The P&O cruise line requirement for example is that your insurance must have a limit of not less than £2 million.   I witnessed 3 helicopter evacuations from my various cruises in 2019 alone.

Edited September 21, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[latserrof]

34 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

 

70-plus cruises all around the world since 1981, on a variety of lines. None required travel insurance. Only one helicopter evacuation for a passenger or crew.

 

How many of the passengers/crew who got sick or died from Covid-19 got helicopter evacuations? And even if it could happen (it might require lots of helicopters), is helicopter evacuation a consequence we should look forward to?

Edited September 21, 2020 by latserrof

[Charles4515]

70-plus cruises all around the world since 1981, on a variety of lines. None required travel insurance. Only one helicopter evacuation for a passenger or crew.
 
How many of the passengers/crew who got sick or died from Covid-19 got helicopter evacuations? And even if it could happen (it might require lots of helicopters), is helicopter evacuation a consequence we should look forward to?

Same here 60 cruises and none required travel insurance. There were three helicopter evacuations. Helicopters don’t have unlimited range. The ships had to divert miles and it took time to get in range for the evacuations. With some weather conditions they can’t be used.


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[clo]

22 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Helicopters don’t have unlimited range.

I had wondered about that. We did an Antarctica cruise a couple of years ago.

[clo]

On 9/19/2020 at 3:00 PM, Elaine5715 said:

Simply telling the CDC that as cruisers we understand how to protect ourselves, accept known risks and love cruising could go a long ways  

I would hate to think that anything that affects our health would be influenced by what lay people would like.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, latserrof said:

70-plus cruises all around the world since 1981, on a variety of lines. None required travel insurance. Only one helicopter evacuation for a passenger or crew.

 

How many of the passengers/crew who got sick or died from Covid-19 got helicopter evacuations? And even if it could happen (it might require lots of helicopters), is helicopter evacuation a consequence we should look forward to?

While dramatic, helicopter evacuations are quite rare — they are not on standby everywhere, and even when available they have rather short range. I have observed only one on a cruise cruise - several hours after departing San Juan for New York, Noordam turned around and sailed south for a few hours to get within range of a U S Coast Guard helicopter based in San San Juan.  I have been on a number of cruises when the ship diverted to a nearby port to evacuate ill passengers/crew or got within range of a Coast Guard boat.

[K32682]

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

Even before the advent of COVID your statement is ridiculous.   If you get seriously sick on a ship, then a helicopter is called out and lifts you off and takes you to the nearest on-shore hospital.   The cruise line contract for many lines requires that a passenger's travel insurance covers such eventualities.  The P&O cruise line requirement for example is that your insurance must have a limit of not less than £2 million.   I witnessed 3 helicopter evacuations from my various cruises in 2019 alone.

 

A helicopter evacuation would only be for a person who was so gravely ill they need immediate medical attention.  It's what happens to the rest of us that should be of concern. Unlike cruise ships no one was quarantined for two weeks on an airplane nor were planes diverted because there was a COVID case on board. 

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

 

Same here 60 cruises and none required travel insurance. There were three helicopter evacuations. Helicopters don’t have unlimited range. The ships had to divert miles and it took time to get in range for the evacuations. With some weather conditions they can’t be used.
 

 

 

It should also be noted that not every patient gets flight surgeon approval for helicopter medevacs.  Some common medical conditions, such as hypertension, prevent helicopter rescue.  Respiratory problems is another, and that is a common symptom of COVID.

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

...  If you get seriously sick on a ship, then a helicopter is called out and lifts you off and takes you to the nearest on-shore hospital.   The cruise line contract for many lines requires that a passenger's travel insurance covers such eventualities. ...

Can you identify a few of those “many lines”?

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

While dramatic, helicopter evacuations are quite rare — they are not on standby everywhere, and even when available they have rather short range. I have observed only one on a cruise cruise - several hours after departing San Juan for New York, Noordam turned around and sailed south for a few hours to get within range of a U S Coast Guard helicopter based in San San Juan.  I have been on a number of cruises when the ship diverted to a nearby port to evacuate ill passengers/crew or got within range of a Coast Guard boat.

 

I too have only seen this once on a cruise traveling along the coast of Portugal heading to Gibraltar from Southampton.  I am not sure what happened to the individual, but it made for some extra excitement seeing a person being winched up into a helicopter.  I was expecting a landing, but the helicopter simply matched the ship's course and speed and dropped down a stretcher to lift the individual up. 

 

I also saw a passenger get dropped off of an NCL cruise ship at an unscheduled stop at Huatulco Mexico last fall.  We there on a land vacation and saw the ship come in and put someone into a ambulance.  I was kind of surprised as health care in Huatulco isn't all that great and the town doesn't even have a real hospital.  

[Ashland]

5 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

Even before the advent of COVID your statement is ridiculous.   If you get seriously sick on a ship, then a helicopter is called out and lifts you off and takes you to the nearest on-shore hospital.   The cruise line contract for many lines requires that a passenger's travel insurance covers such eventualities.  The P&O cruise line requirement for example is that your insurance must have a limit of not less than £2 million.   I witnessed 3 helicopter evacuations from my various cruises in 2019 alone.

I didn't think this applied to the Coast Guard evacuations ? Those I've seen many times.

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

I too have only seen this once on a cruise traveling along the coast of Portugal heading to Gibraltar from Southampton.  I am not sure what happened to the individual, but it made for some extra excitement seeing a person being winched up into a helicopter.  I was expecting a landing, but the helicopter simply matched the ship's course and speed and dropped down a stretcher to lift the individual up. 

 

I also saw a passenger get dropped off of an NCL cruise ship at an unscheduled stop at Huatulco Mexico last fall.  We there on a land vacation and saw the ship come in and put someone into a ambulance.  I was kind of surprised as health care in Huatulco isn't all that great and the town doesn't even have a real hospital.  

I've seen some different scenarios too....Helicopter hovering over ship...helicopter able to land on ship....ship heads back into the port they just left....ship heads to nearest port drop off.

As far as town's that don't have the best medical facility....the patient is stabilized and transferred by land or air to the nearest facility able to treat the patient's condition.

 

Love these topics that veer off somewhere 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Ashland

[2wheelin]

5 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

What is needed is mass testing of the populous so that people know who has Covid and who does not, because Covid spreads as it does because so many asymptomatic people have no clue they are carrying and spreading it.   If we test EVERYBODY instead of farcically only testing the sick people with symptoms, then people become informed and can isolate.  That will stop the further spread of the virus.    Of course testing everybody would then reveal the true situation of the number of people who have already had Covid and had no issues with it which is many millions of people and that would somewhat undermine the establishment's Project Fear narrative so I doubt it's going to happen any time soon.  They will continue to only test the sick people with symptoms which has the natural and very obvious effect of raising the numbers of cases.

 

 

Good. Let’s set aside a day next week and do that. You know that your plan would need to have EVERYONE tested at once or you still would not know. We test asymptomatic people here. And if you also want to know who has had it, that is another test. So two tests per person. Maybe we need a day and a half.