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Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations Released


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@Howie from MD, thanks!  74 pages will make a good afternoon's reading!

 

"Fain and Del Rio said each company will use the Panel’s recommendations to inform the development of new, detailed operating protocols, which will be submitted to the CDC and other authorities around the globe for review and approval– an important milestone in the process of resuming sailing around the world. The Panel’s work is open sourced for others to incorporate in their protocols as well; Governor Leavitt and Dr. Gottlieb expressed appreciation that authorities and other cruise companies had already engaged in the Panel’s work as observers."

 

https://www.multivu.com/players/English/8644151-royal-caribbean-group-norwegian-cruise-line-healthy-sail-panel/

 

But, good to see the release of the recommendations to the public and get a feel for the road ahead as the lines work on their implementation and execution plans.  I personally would love to see recommendation 66 implemented as widely as possible, despite costs.  I think the health and safety of the crew is paramount.

Edited by greykitty
new quote from press release
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Albeit, I have not been in clinical practice for quite some time, I have been involved in medical/healthcare quality analytics for over 40 years.  In briefly reviewing the Onboard Medical Capabilities, Clinic Design and Operations, Case Management, Contact Tracing, Isolation/Quarantine , Evacuation, Debarkation Scenarios this will represent a herculean effort on behalf of cruise lines.  This is obviously RCG and NCL's response to CDC and we will have to see how everything falls out.

 

 

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Yes quite an interesting read.   Have a huge problem with one word that they seem to use incorrectly and is totally problematic.  That word is "should".   Having written many  many Contracts over the years it is a fact that using the word "should" does NOT create a requirement.  The proper terms are shall and will depending on the usage.  

 

The report truly should have used "shalls" when a requirement and "should" when a good idea but, not required especially in such an impartment document.  A real shame that all of the recommendations by the use of "should" are simply suggestions and not requirements!

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Testing recommendation 4 regarding guests prior to boarding ship states that Negative Covid test should be obtained (I assume by the guest) 5 days to 24 hours before boarding. Besides the fact that it is difficult to impossible to get the test in a timely way in Florida, what if you get a test on day 5 and get infected after the test before boarding? Why don’t the cruise lines do what MSC is doing in Europe now, that is administering the test prior to boarding?

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11 minutes ago, marienbad said:

Testing recommendation 4 regarding guests prior to boarding ship states that Negative Covid test should be obtained (I assume by the guest) 5 days to 24 hours before boarding. Besides the fact that it is difficult to impossible to get the test in a timely way in Florida, what if you get a test on day 5 and get infected after the test before boarding? Why don’t the cruise lines do what MSC is doing in Europe now, that is administering the test prior to boarding?

Totally agree.  Plus the FACT that many people who actually have covid  have false negative tests in the first 4-7 days of infection.  We have been told this repeatedly in the health system where I practice as people will come in to be tested who are symptomatic, test negative and have been told they are fine and don't have covid, only to come back a few days later even sicker and test positive. Just because you test negative doesn't mean you don't have the infection.

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I admit I'm wondering how many of the recommendations each line will actually accept and execute in their individual protocol documents to the CDC.  Be kind of fun to see a check list from the plan each line submits to the CDC against the panel's recommendations.  Also would be fun to know if the Panel submitted their recommendation paper to the lines prior to release for edits, or if it was truly independent.  Maybe I missed the level of independence?

 

I figure a lot of the recommendations will never be implemented, unless the CDC plays hardball.  

Edited by greykitty
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32 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Yes quite an interesting read.   Have a huge problem with one word that they seem to use incorrectly and is totally problematic.  That word is "should".   Having written many  many Contracts over the years it is a fact that using the word "should" does NOT create a requirement.  The proper terms are shall and will depending on the usage.  

 

The report truly should have used "shalls" when a requirement and "should" when a good idea but, not required especially in such an impartment document.  A real shame that all of the recommendations by the use of "should" are simply suggestions and not requirements!

I am not sure if the word is used incorrectly or deliberately. 

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I can not imagine cruising with these guidelines. Because of wording they seem to be guidelines. Regarding testing, A person can test negative on Monday, get exposed Tuesday, get negative results Wednesday, board Thursday and have symptoms Saturday. The minimal number of hospital beds not nearly enough is outbreak. I still do not think cruise lines will be sailing with passengers until there is a vaccine.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, greykitty said:

Fain and Del Rio said each company will use the Panel’s recommendations to inform the development of new, detailed operating protocols, which will be submitted to the CDC and other authorities around the globe for review and approval– an important milestone in the process of resuming sailing around the world.

Quoting myself - these are 'just' recommendations.  As I understand it, each line still has to develop specific, executable protocols, supposedly based on these recommendations, to submit to the CDC for review and, hopefully, approval.  So, unless RCG and NCLH had protocols already written for submission, going to be a while before the CDC has anything to actually look at.

 

I also agree ain't nothing really happening until there's a vaccine and such treatments of COVID-19 that a  breakout on board won't basically flood local medical facilities with patients.  And given that it seems a lot of cruise ships have high percentages of the most vulnerable population as passengers, the medical recommendations would seem to me to be the most important, and probably most difficult, to implement.

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100% this is what is needed to keep cruising as safe as possible in the short term, but this is not anything I would want any part of.  These protocols are totally necessary but would make for one bummer of a 'vacation'.  I'll wait until next year.  Hoping now they will give the official word that our November cruise is cancelled soon.

Edited by Sascol
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39 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

I am not sure if the word is used incorrectly or deliberately. 

Agree and if written intentionally as not requirements, what good are they as they leave the barn door wide open.  Perhaps they were written as recommendation for the CDC to write their requirements document which by definition have to say "shall",  

 

As far as helping NCLH and RCG plus other cruise lines who choose to use the document IMHO they are an almost complete failure as most of the suggestions are already known so cruise lines using this document are completely open to pick and choose what they will or will not include in their operations plans so we'll have a Hodge podge of ship level requirements that may or may not protect the passengers and crew.

 

In any case whether the word is incorrectly or deliberately used, IMHO this panel of "experts" almost completely failed to write the necessary document to provide requirements for the cruise lines to follow.  If the document was written to submit to the CDC to provide guidance for the CDC requirements document, good job.

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I think few people will be ready to cruise under these guidelines today. These guidelines are set up for what we know today. I really am optimistic that cruising will go back to normal with an effective, world wide vaccine. I am hoping mid to last 2021. I remember my grandmother looking back saying that she thought her kids would “never” be able to swim in ponds or pools due to polio threat that was so devastating. Then effective vaccine and it made her idea of safety non applicable.

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The CLIA document states

 

Testing:100% testing of passengers and crew for COVID-19 prior to embarkation.

 

how prior to embarkation will that be and will the cruise line be doing the test?

i hope they will follow the MSC requirement for day of embarkation testing done by them.

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6 minutes ago, marienbad said:

 

Well, about time since fdr and other executives have recently been blaming the CDC for failing to move forward yet it took until today for the NCLH/RCG team to submit along with CLIA finally.  Where has CLIA been for the last 6 months??

 

And, really wonder how "mandatory" the protocols submitted by CLIA are since the ones submitted by the super committee are all only recommendations with none of them mandatory based on the "should" in all of the elements,

 

Would not be surprised if the CLIA submittal does not also include mandatories and are also incorrect with lots of "shoulds

 

". 

Edited by rallydave
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6 minutes ago, marienbad said:

The CLIA document states

 

Testing:100% testing of passengers and crew for COVID-19 prior to embarkation.

 

how prior to embarkation will that be and will the cruise line be doing the test?

i hope they will follow the MSC requirement for day of embarkation testing done by them.

Not sure what good day of sailing testing would be with so many false positives and negatives for the quick test.  Sure wouldn't want to fly to a cruise and get sent home for a false positive or sail with people who have a false negative and from what I have been reading the false positives and negatives for the quick tests are very prevalent.

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2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Not sure what good day of sailing testing would be with so many false positives and negatives for the quick test.  Sure wouldn't want to fly to a cruise and get sent home for a false positive or sail with people who have a false negative and from what I have been reading the false positives and negatives for the quick tests are very prevalent.

 

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From the point of view of protecting the “bubble” false positives are ok, but false negatives are not. No question there are problems with all of this, but if cruising is to resume in this terrible time of Covid the cruise lines “should” err on the side of safety imho.

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14 minutes ago, marienbad said:

From the point of view of protecting the “bubble” false positives are ok, but false negatives are not. No question there are problems with all of this, but if cruising is to resume in this terrible time of Covid the cruise lines “should” err on the side of safety imho.

 

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