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so maybe cruise ships are not petri dishes


jimbo5544
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2 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I have seen enough norovirus cases onboard and have seen enough people disembark in unfavorable conditions to know they have always been petri dishes.

 

Norovirus isn't fun. It's even worse when nobody is quarantining with it and they are still out and about.

Thats Princess for you...

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6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thats Princess for you...

Oh yeah, without a doubt. Princess always seems to have norovirus onboard. I can even say that I'm fairly certain that I have contracted it on a recent cruise along with many others but like them, I was not subjected to quarantine and nearly everyone onboard was sick at some point.

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30 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I have seen enough norovirus cases onboard and have seen enough people disembark in unfavorable conditions to know they have always been petri dishes.

 

Norovirus isn't fun. It's even worse when nobody is quarantining with it and they are still out and about.

Don’t know if it was Noro or good ol’ food poisoning, but I’ve been violently ill twice on cruises; once on the Carnival Dream and once on the Westerdam. Both times I was too ill to leave the cabin for 24 hours (Cozumel and Juneau). It was NOT fun. On the Westerdam in particular I was ready to call it quits and get off the ship. 
 

Since then, I’ve been hyper-vigilant about hygiene (not only mine but those around me). I try to avoid the buffet as much as possible (both times, I’m pretty certain that’s where I got whatever illness I had). I also watch what I eat and avoid items that could be more prone to cause food poisoning. I’m glad to say that I haven’t had any issues since. 

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3 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Don’t know if it was Noro or good ol’ food poisoning, but I’ve been violently ill twice on cruises; once on the Carnival Dream and once on the Westerdam. Both times I was too ill to leave the cabin for 24 hours (Cozumel and Juneau). It was NOT fun. On the Westerdam in particular I was ready to call it quits and get off the ship. 
 

Since then, I’ve been hyper-vigilant about hygiene (not only mine but those around me). I try to avoid the buffet as much as possible (both times, I’m pretty certain that’s where I got whatever illness I had). I also watch what I eat and avoid items that could be more prone to cause food poisoning. I’m glad to say that I haven’t had any issues since. 

Without getting totally off track, Royal seems to be the winner in the Noro race, for whatever reason, hence the washy, washy way before it became "the thing".

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I've been on around 15 cruises, eaten at the buffet at least once a day on each of those, and have never gotten sick on or after cruising.  I feel much more comfortable about the cleanliness of cruise ships than I do of airports, hotels, theme parks, etc.  The crew is constantly cleaning and you can't say that about the majority of public places.  Because people are on the ship for a longer length of time than while flying, visiting a theme park, or going to a public place, the tracking is available and can be misleading in my opinion.

Anyway, I have no fear about cruising again.  I wish they would move forward with rapid testing and ways to quarantine any positive cases on board so that we can cruise again.  The people who are fearful can stay home until the virus runs its course.

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10 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Without getting totally off track, Royal seems to be the winner in the Noro race, for whatever reason, hence the washy, washy way before it became "the thing".

From what I’ve experienced, Royal does seem to be one of the most strict when it comes to hand washing. On our last cruise on Royal (2018), they were forcing everyone to funnel towards the hand washing stations. The other cruise line with similarly strict protocols was Disney. One cool thing that they had, and which I loved, were these futuristic touch less hand washing machines. You’d stick your hands in them and they would do the job for you. Fun to use.

 

https://youtu.be/jIRxeaErzdY

Edited by Tapi
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1 minute ago, Tapi said:

One cool thing that they had, and which I loved, were these futuristic touch less hand washing machines. You’d stick your hands in them and they would do the job for you. Fun to use.

They had them in the buffet on the Carnival Vista last December as well.  They were great! 

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5 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

 

So, we LOVE to cruise and have been on more then 60+....but here is my question (and yes, we have 5 more booked currently).....lets say they test you as NEG with the required testing before you get on the ship.....say you choose NOT to leave the ship for ANY shore excursions or time off the ship at all and then catch it....is it THEIR responsibility or YOURS????  Just would like to have an answer

 

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40 minutes ago, Debe7ing said:

 

So, we LOVE to cruise and have been on more then 60+....but here is my question (and yes, we have 5 more booked currently).....lets say they test you as NEG with the required testing before you get on the ship.....say you choose NOT to leave the ship for ANY shore excursions or time off the ship at all and then catch it....is it THEIR responsibility or YOURS????  Just would like to have an answer

 

You could very well have been exposed before boarding and still have tested negative. In any case it would not be their responsibility since you chose to board knowing there are no guarantees of Covid free environments. 

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3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thats Princess for you...

 

Generalizations are usually just that.

 

With almost 30 cruises on Princess we've never gotten norovirus or even been on a ship where it has been announced that they needed to additional precautions. 

 

On the other hand, our son got it in college, our granddaughter got it in preschool (and spread it to her parents), and approximately 50% of my niece's high school marching band got it when playing in Hawaii on the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.  Of course all of those cases (even the marching band) were never reported to the public as is true of the vast majority of norovirus cases.  Cruise ships are required to report when cases are above a relatively low threshold.  Not so colleges, schools, hotels, restaurants, etc.

 

From the CDC

 

(https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/reporting/index.html) Currently, state, local, and territorial health departments are not required to report individual cases of norovirus illness to a national surveillance system. We may not know about many cases because most hospitals and doctor’s offices do not test for norovirus.

 

(https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/norovirus/norovirus.htm) People often associate cruise ships with acute gastrointestinal illnesses such as norovirus, but acute gastrointestinal illness is relatively infrequent on cruise ships.

 

From 2008 to 2014, 74 million passengers sailed on cruise ships in the Vessel Sanitation Program’s jurisdiction. Only 129,678 passengers met the program’s case definition for acute gastrointestinal illness and only a small proportion of those cases (1 in 10) were part of a norovirus outbreak.

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The media has an agenda. That agenda has financial implications. Whether it is to raise the value of pension funds, price for advertising, or whatever. This is why there is little to no truth in news now. I know people that have worked in the cruise industry. A lot of the outbreaks from norovirus etc all comes from a lack of cleanliness from people. Using the bathroom without washing hands, dining and partying too much in some of the ports, etc. In most cases he encountered while on ship, those outbreaks came from a small group that dined at some 3rd rate place because they listened to random taxi driver's advice "I know just the place". Common sense and courtesy go along way.

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Cruise ships have never been, nor are they now, petri dishes, any more than any area where large numbers of people congregate.  The problem is that the industry, and the regulators have focused on the most prevalent form of disease at the time.  When the VSP was initiated, this was salmonella, botulism and e-coli.  When the measures of the VSP virtually eliminated these pathogens from the ships, another fecal/oral transmission agent, noro, moved in, and new measures were implemented.  However, the problem today, and this is what epidemiologists (and bio-weapon scientists) always fear is an airborne pathogen, and how difficult it is to control a pathogen once it is airborne.  Sanitation measures can help, but contact transmission of covid is a small percentage, so even the best sanitation won't appreciably control an outbreak.  Masks and distance are the only true methods of controlling an airborne pathogen (anthrax, legionella, measles, whooping cough), short of vaccines, and cruising, just like the rest of the world, will have to adapt to these measures, or go by the wayside.  Crew were not trained to prevent, contain, or remediate airborne pathogens, and so the early incidents on cruise ships ballooned out of control, exacerbated by national health agencies natural desire to quarantine the disease on the ship, but without providing the necessary guidance, training, or assistance to remediate the situation within the quarantine.

Edited by chengkp75
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10 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Oh yeah, without a doubt. Princess always seems to have norovirus onboard. I can even say that I'm fairly certain that I have contracted it on a recent cruise along with many others but like them, I was not subjected to quarantine and nearly everyone onboard was sick at some point.

Nearly everyone? Thousands of pax, not counting crew? Doubt it.

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7 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

Generalizations are usually just that.

 

With almost 30 cruises on Princess we've never gotten norovirus or even been on a ship where it has been announced that they needed to additional precautions. 

 

On the other hand, our son got it in college, our granddaughter got it in preschool (and spread it to her parents), and approximately 50% of my niece's high school marching band got it when playing in Hawaii on the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.  Of course all of those cases (even the marching band) were never reported to the public as is true of the vast majority of norovirus cases.  Cruise ships are required to report when cases are above a relatively low threshold.  Not so colleges, schools, hotels, restaurants, etc.

 

From the CDC

 

(https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/reporting/index.html) Currently, state, local, and territorial health departments are not required to report individual cases of norovirus illness to a national surveillance system. We may not know about many cases because most hospitals and doctor’s offices do not test for norovirus.

 

(https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/norovirus/norovirus.htm) People often associate cruise ships with acute gastrointestinal illnesses such as norovirus, but acute gastrointestinal illness is relatively infrequent on cruise ships.

 

From 2008 to 2014, 74 million passengers sailed on cruise ships in the Vessel Sanitation Program’s jurisdiction. Only 129,678 passengers met the program’s case definition for acute gastrointestinal illness and only a small proportion of those cases (1 in 10) were part of a norovirus outbreak.

Thanks for the info.   The post was humor for the poster I quoted, who sails Princess. We really need to lighten up here. 

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4 hours ago, bigrednole said:

The media has an agenda. That agenda has financial implications. Whether it is to raise the value of pension funds, price for advertising, or whatever. This is why there is little to no truth in news now. I know people that have worked in the cruise industry. A lot of the outbreaks from norovirus etc all comes from a lack of cleanliness from people. Using the bathroom without washing hands, dining and partying too much in some of the ports, etc. In most cases he encountered while on ship, those outbreaks came from a small group that dined at some 3rd rate place because they listened to random taxi driver's advice "I know just the place". Common sense and courtesy go along way.

Bingo!

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23 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Nearly everyone? Thousands of pax, not counting crew? Doubt it.

I’d say so when anyone you see was coughing up a storm looking ill and notices were delivered to passengers with certain touch items removed from various areas of the ship. I didn’t know you were onboard.

Edited by xDisconnections
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8 hours ago, Debe7ing said:

 

So, we LOVE to cruise and have been on more then 60+....but here is my question (and yes, we have 5 more booked currently).....lets say they test you as NEG with the required testing before you get on the ship.....say you choose NOT to leave the ship for ANY shore excursions or time off the ship at all and then catch it....is it THEIR responsibility or YOURS????  Just would like to have an answer

 

We all know there are many ways to get the virus.  Testing is a point in time thing, it provides some solace for when it occurred (and there are errors in those reports also, both false positives and false negatives).  The answer is that no matter where you contracted the virus, if you got it on the ship, the cruise line must get you to a safe treatment at their cost.  It is what they should do as well.  
 

The real point is that this industry was much maligned for being in the middle of the mushroom cloud outbreak, very little of which was in their control.  Then msm kicked in and the cdc lowered the ax.  Way overdone for way to long a time.  It was wrong then and still wrong today.  Shortly, we should here from the ‘experts” whether they will swing the ax again.  

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10 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I’d say so when anyone you see was coughing up a storm looking ill and notices were delivered to passengers with certain touch items removed from various areas of the ship. I didn’t know you were onboard.

Jason, are you the superspreader?  Lol

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Everything on that list could be said about long term care homes.  In many places homes for the elderly account for the majority of COVID-19 deaths. As well, that list also does not apply to crew who live and eat in very cramped quarters. 

 

The risk remains that even one positive case means you'll be stuck in your cabin for two weeks or be denied entry to ports. 

 

And how much do you trust the cruise line to live up to the lofty standards in the article?  Hurtigruten had a very impressive policy but in practice ignored it and people got sick and some died. 

 

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