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CDC Director Overruled On Cruise Ship Ban


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37 minutes ago, Don Kehote said:

Science...is a liar sometimes.

 

A better way to put that is sometimes theories are wrong. Theories are just that, and not absolute.

 

37 minutes ago, Don Kehote said:

Are you seeing a pattern?  These were all the smartest scientists on the planet.  Only problem is, they kept being wrong. 

 

 

I'm seeing a pattern, but maybe not the one you are implying. Those scientists were right a lot of the time.

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53 minutes ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

if the no sail order is lifted on Oct 31st it does not mean that cruises will resume on Nov 1st..   There are many steps  to restart cruising, especially now

 

37 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

And I would think those steps would be started in October if they know the no sail order will end on November 1st.

I suspect those steps are already underway.  The cruise industry will be looking for the CDC and other relevant bodies to give them fair warning that the No Sail Order, if extended to 31 Oct, will not be further extended, but instead there will be some new set of protocols/regulations to work with.  The industry would also be working right now with the island ports/Governments to co-ordinate port visits.

 

The industry should be all lined up on the grid, waiting for the lights to go out and hammer the throttle on 1 Nov.

 

If the industry waits until 1 Nov to fuel up the car, put on the tires, and roll around to the pit exit, then they would be fools.

 

Hmm.

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7 hours ago, cruizergal70 said:

Are you kidding? Living has nothing to do with the optionnal act of going on a frivolous cruise vacation.  Life will be 100% okay if cruising shut down completely. Let's keep the real important things in life in perspective. 

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

Edited by TNcruising02
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Another third party confirmation  (the Times, so not much credibility), yet nothing from the axman.  Just another show of arrogance and hatred for the industry.  Absolutely no reason for it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/health/covid-cruise-ships.html

 

 

Edited by jimbo5544
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17 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

I agree with you. Lots of people here in Miami wanted to go back to work at the Port.

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6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Another third party confirmation  (the Times, so not much credibility), yet nothing from the axman.

Soooo, it’s after 5:00pm, and I don’t see any updates on the CDC website about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st. Has it been made official? Did I miss something? 

Edited by Tapi
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1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

A better way to put that is sometimes theories are wrong. Theories are just that, and not absolute.

 

 

I'm seeing a pattern, but maybe not the one you are implying. Those scientists were right a lot of the time.

 

Not only were their major theories proved correct, no one's health was hanging in the balance in the meantime, and no one else would have suffered damaging medical consequences if those theories had been proven wrong.

 

Interesting anecdotes but not applicable to the topic.

 

 

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17 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


I think you are off by 24 hours. 

 

I would invite your attention to the language of the actual order:

 

"This Order shall remain in effect until the earliest of .....September 30, 2020.

 

Sunsetting orders are often written this way, and the earliest would be when Wednesday started, and means Eastern time unless otherwise specified.

 

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2 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

And I would think those steps would be started in October if they know the no sail order will end on November 1st.

I believe those steps have already started. The no sail order expires Sept 30.  The cruise industry voluntarily extended it to October 31.

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The CDC has been practicing an old magicians trick: Misdirection. While everyone is watching the clock on the CDC no sail order, they have been quietly publishing a regulation (stronger than an order) that allows the CDC to pretty much do as they please at anytime using Covid-19 as pretext to prevent foreign travel. The 37 pages of giving over arching power to the director of the CDC has a section rebutting the public comments complaining of discrimination. The regulation allows obnoxious interference in the operation of lawful businesses and reduction of personal freedoms.

 

SUMMARY:

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issues this final rule to amend the Foreign Quarantine Regulations administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This final rule provides a procedure for the CDC Director to suspend the right to introduce and prohibit introduction, in whole or in part, of persons from such foreign countries or places as the Director shall designate in order to avert the danger of the introduction of a quarantinable communicable disease into the United States, and for such period of time as the Director may deem necessary for such purpose.

 

DATES:

 

This final rule is effective on October 13, 2020. 

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/09/11/2020-20036/control-of-communicable-diseases-foreign-quarantine-suspension-of-the-right-to-introduce-and

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9 hours ago, Linda the Book Lover said:

It is time to cruise, period. MSC is doing well in Europe and added another ship to their sailings. Yes, there are still cases popping up but I think especially since one could fly all of these months we should also be able to cruise with a good protocol in place. 

Still cases popping up.  There are 7 million cases.  Hospitals are being pushed to capacity in Wisconsin of all places.  Europe is a totally different animal than the US.  Number of cases and willingness of people to comply with the protocols put in place.

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11 minutes ago, skridge said:

Still cases popping up.  There are 7 million cases.  Hospitals are being pushed to capacity in Wisconsin of all places.  Europe is a totally different animal than the US.  Number of cases and willingness of people to comply with the protocols put in place.

I wouldn't exactly say that. I think Europeans are getting fed up also.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/protect-the-economy-or-the-population-the-coronavirus-dilemma-facing-governments-as-protests-escalate-2020-09-30

 

That's just 1 story.  I think people world wide want to get back to normal. 

 

Re Wisconsin, there has been an increase of cases recently but the death toll total since March is 1327. 

 https://www.wbay.com/2020/09/30/wisconsin-reports-record-27-covid-19-deaths-surpasses-120000-cases/

 

FWIW, I think we should be allowed to go back to work and make our own choices. I have to wear a mask for work plus allergies so it doesn't bother me.

 

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4 hours ago, Moviela said:

 

I would invite your attention to the language of the actual order:

 

"This Order shall remain in effect until the earliest of .....September 30, 2020.

 

Sunsetting orders are often written this way, and the earliest would be when Wednesday started, and means Eastern time unless otherwise specified.

 


I actually read the order on the CDC website and you are 100% correct. 

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24 minutes ago, MeganGC1983 said:

So the order has expired, yet why do I still feel like we are in such limbo? Like Someone is about to jump out and say “Not so fast my friend” or “no cruise for you” in my soup nazi voice. 😬🤷🏼‍♀️


The order has been extended until October 31st.

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8 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

Right.  Maybe some of those who think cruising should remain closed down simply because “it is just optional frivolity” should give up their toys—boats, tv, new car, electronics—optional non necessities.  It would protect all those workers who could then stay home. 
Based on previous experience, I must issue a sarcasm alert here.

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so I copied this from the newest version of the no sail order.  Can someone point me to the recent breakouts they describe?

 

Cumulative surveillance data reported to CDC from March 1 through September 29, 2020, shows at least 3,689 COVID-19 or COVID-like illness cases on cruise ships in U.S. waters, in addition to at least 41 reported deaths. We recognize these numbers are likely incomplete and an underestimate.

Recent outbreaks on cruise ships overseas provide current evidence that cruise ship travel continues to transmit and amplify the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19,—even when ships sail at reduced passenger capacities—and would likely spread the infection  into U.S. communities if passenger operations were to resume prematurely in the United States

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14 hours ago, Isasprings said:

I agree with you. Lots of people here in Miami wanted to go back to work at the Port.

Also, another thing people don't realize is how much the cruise industry being shut down has hurt the farmers etc in port cities. The list goes on and on of how many people's livelyhood has been affected by the shut down of cruising. I'm in the camp of people that believe it can be accomplished with the correct safety protocol in place. I also believe this virus isn't going away and we need to learn how to live with it.  Those that are high risk need to shelter in place and we need to take care adequately of those people.

Pat

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6 minutes ago, quickrate said:

Also, another thing people don't realize is how much the cruise industry being shut down has hurt the farmers etc in port cities. The list goes on and on of how many people's livelyhood has been affected by the shut down of cruising. I'm in the camp of people that believe it can be accomplished with the correct safety protocol in place. I also believe this virus isn't going away and we need to learn how to live with it.  Those that are high risk need to shelter in place and we need to take care adequately of those people.

Pat

Well said.  

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12 hours ago, Moviela said:

The 37 pages of giving over arching power to the director of the CDC has a section rebutting the public comments complaining of discrimination. The regulation allows obnoxious interference in the operation of lawful businesses and reduction of personal freedoms.

As the new order states, the CDC and HHS have always had this power, this order merely narrows the focus of some elements to quarantinable diseases.  The authority to refuse entry of a person, or to force quarantine, outside the US, has been part of our laws since the first days of the country.

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52 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

so I copied this from the newest version of the no sail order.  Can someone point me to the recent breakouts they describe?

I can only assume they are referring to the MS Roald Amundsen.  I am not aware of any other actual outbreak (that bunch of false positives recently in Greece doesn't count, of course).

 

Ugh.  The CDC's wording is needlessly alarmist.  They could have just said something like "due to at least one COVID-19 outbreak when cruising resumed in Europe, it is clear that risks still exist."

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52 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I can only assume they are referring to the MS Roald Amundsen.  I am not aware of any other actual outbreak (that bunch of false positives recently in Greece doesn't count, of course).

 

Ugh.  The CDC's wording is needlessly alarmist.  They could have just said something like "due to at least one COVID-19 outbreak when cruising resumed in Europe, it is clear that risks still exist."

Agree

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