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No sail order extended to October 31st.


Arizona Wildcat
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USA Today reported the following

 

The CDC's previous order had been scheduled to expire Sept. 30 after extensions to the original mid-March order in April and again in July

The CDC requested that the order be extended to February 15, but compromised with the White House Task Force to extend until Oct. 31 four days before the Nov. 3 election. 

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    Most likely the CDC will extend the order continuing on from Oct.31.

Corona numbers are spiking in numerous states and some countries are reporting a 

second wave of the virus.

    IMO, travel will continue to be restricted until people realize the virus needs to be respected as a living organism that is currently being dealt with by wearing masks, keeping social distance and refraining from large group gatherings. A vaccine will also help to control this vicious disease, but it will take time until an effective vaccine is distributed to a majority of people world wide.

   It has been a long,tiring time since the reality of the presence of the virus in the US became clear this past March. People are tired of keeping the course and want to get on with activities in their lives. However, this weakening of resolve to handle the virus coupled with denial that the virus is indeed as dangerous as it has proven to be continues to cause spikes in cases and deaths and prolong travel restrictions.

Wear a mask, keep social distance, think of others, be safe!

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59 minutes ago, MJSailors said:

    Most likely the CDC will extend the order continuing on from Oct.31.

Corona numbers are spiking in numerous states and some countries are reporting a 

second wave of the virus.

    IMO, travel will continue to be restricted until people realize the virus needs to be respected as a living organism that is currently being dealt with by wearing masks, keeping social distance and refraining from large group gatherings. A vaccine will also help to control this vicious disease, but it will take time until an effective vaccine is distributed to a majority of people world wide.

   It has been a long,tiring time since the reality of the presence of the virus in the US became clear this past March. People are tired of keeping the course and want to get on with activities in their lives. However, this weakening of resolve to handle the virus coupled with denial that the virus is indeed as dangerous as it has proven to be continues to cause spikes in cases and deaths and prolong travel restrictions.

Wear a mask, keep social distance, think of others, be safe!

Social distancing has never been an established public health construct ever before. Why start now?

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39 minutes ago, pumpkin 11 said:

Social distancing has never been an established public health construct ever before. Why start now?

 

Because normal people study the science and reach a fact-based conclusion rather than relying on stupid memes from Facebook for information.

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7 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

Social distancing has never been an established public health construct ever before. Why start now?

Might want to study history a little:

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

 

Social distancing, 1918 style.

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10 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

USA Today reported the following

 

The CDC's previous order had been scheduled to expire Sept. 30 after extensions to the original mid-March order in April and again in July

The CDC requested that the order be extended to February 15, but compromised with the White House Task Force to extend until Oct. 31 four days before the Nov. 3 election. 

This has not yet been made official by a CDC announcement or Federal Register publication.  Perhaps later today? But it seems that there is a widespread reporting about this as a compromise date from yesterday's meeting at the White House.

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I would not refer to this as a compromise.  From all reports I have seen the CDC indicated that they wanted to extend until the end of February.  That was over ruled (directly by Pence according to reports) and the CDC was told that the October date would be used. No compromise involved.

 

Also that the cruise lines will be meeting directly with the White House and presenting their plans to restart.

 

I consider this to be the worst of all possible outcomes, and one that I was afraid would happen, when word came out a week or so ago that HHS was removing signature authority for new regulations form both the FDA and CDC. It is worst in that it now appears that CDC is being pushed out of the process.  

 

I had hoped that the CDC would extend the sailing restrictions, but not with a total ban, but just until the cruise lines submitted and got detailed plans approved (similar to what has been done in Europe).  That those plans would require not only details on process and procedures, specific details on out break management, including how passengers would disembarked  in case of an outbreak, and requirements for testing crew, including the reporting of this information to CDC.  In other words put some monitoring and strict structure to the general nature of the CLIA proposals.

 

If those reports are true I expect that the cruise lines will have accomplished their 2 primary goals. 1. to restart sailing 2. to prevent any new regulations and over sight into cruise line operations by the CDC.  It is my view that to the cruise lines item 2 is almost as important as item 1. I think that the cruise lines feared new regulations for the CDC to have a more direct hand in monitoring health on cruise ships operating out of US ports, including more detailed illness reports, beyond the currently required Norovirus reports.

 

I hope I am wrong, but I expect that the cruise lines will be able to restart, without CDC reviewing and approving detailed plans. Instead the White House will meet with the cruise lines and will allow them to restart based on much more general CLIA type proposals.

 

In that case I have no trust in the cruise lines to do the items that are really necessary to safely restart.  In the past they have not shown that they will put safety and other matters (environmental protection for example) above their financials, beyond the degree necessary to protect those financials. They have tended to be very obscure about health and safety matters, having demonstrated a view that if they could get a problem off of a ship it was not longer a problem.  As well as having demonstrated a powerful lobbying history in limiting regulatory authorities in the US.

 

As a result I have terminated my old account  (NPCL) which stood for No Particular Cruise Line, since I sailed pretty much all of them, and created a new one (nocl) which stands for NO Cruise Line.  Since if this progresses as I expect it will be a long time before I will set foot on a cruise ship. I also expect it may end up being a negative for the cruise lines that I have often enjoyed in the past. I pretty much stopped posting after watching the actions of the HHS Secretary. I do not expect to be posting much in the future, unless this does turn differently than I expect.

 

Good luck and good health to all of you.

Edited by nocl
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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Thanks for this article, chengkp75; quite enlightening for any who chose to read it.

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1) The cruiselines HAVE submitted their plan to the CDC

2) Mein Schiff  & MSC have been cruising for almost 2 months now with no problems(yes they thought 12 Mein Schiff employees were positive early this week but turned out to be false positives.)

3) Treatment for the disease is MUCH better than it was 7-8 months ago. (there are literally thousands of ventilators sitting in storage not needed now)

4) Co-morbidities are more known now, so those who have them should know what to do to prevent the illness, ie.. wear a mask, wash your hands, socially distance, keep away from crowds.

5) The disease is real but can be prevented for the most part

6) I'm glad they are only going to extend the no sail order for one month (according to reports).  Take it one month at a time and lets see how things are in the world.

 

6) I'd have no problem cruising right now, happily wearing a mask, and doing what I need to do to stay safe.  

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We're in the throes of deciding if we should do the March '21 cruise we have been craving desperately instead of unappealing lift and shift options. We were on the Silhouette last year when everything changed. It caused us a lot of anxiety.

While we really really really want this cruise to happen, and while we are healthy, cautious, etc., the thought of a possible quarantine due to others possibly not being as stringent is what has us conflicted. Agree with poster above sharing how much more we know about the virus, how much better we can treat it, how much better we are avoiding it, but again, what would that mean in terms of quarantine? Not to mention that politics and other factors keep us from truly having a handle on possible vaccine. We have jobs to get back to (also family, friends, cat) and a two week quarantine, or perhaps being locked out of our state, would be inconvenient at the least. 

We know we are not alone in feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of this decision. 

 

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4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

This has not yet been made official by a CDC announcement or Federal Register publication.  Perhaps later today? But it seems that there is a widespread reporting about this as a compromise date from yesterday's meeting at the White House.

Seems like a Federal register publication would be likely.  

There was actually a compromise.  CDC wanted 2021 and the Administration wanted order to end today.  Agree no change as CLIA already has end of October and it is likely that it will take longer than that to get things restarted.

Hoping for some sort of details as this in effect is no news at all.  Thought CLIA members were meeting with the CDC and the VP on this.  Think I read this coming Friday.

Hope politics stays away from this board.  It has been ugly elsewhere. TeeRick do you agree that the sailing guidelines are likely to be pretty close to Those posted by Royal Caribbean/Norwegian?

As I said before, we moved our 2020 cruises to July and August 2021.  One of those was a TA.  Seems with covid numbers increasing anything beyond private island cruise not likely any time soon.  Will cancell our August TA if shore excursions are restricted.   Can live with masks.  Lots of learning about COVID and hopefully a vaccine sooner than mid 2021.

Last, heard from Moderna that their vaccine showed a "robust" reaction in older people.

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54 minutes ago, sakigemcam said:

We're in the throes of deciding if we should do the March '21 cruise we have been craving desperately instead of unappealing lift and shift options. We were on the Silhouette last year when everything changed. It caused us a lot of anxiety.

While we really really really want this cruise to happen, and while we are healthy, cautious, etc., the thought of a possible quarantine due to others possibly not being as stringent is what has us conflicted. Agree with poster above sharing how much more we know about the virus, how much better we can treat it, how much better we are avoiding it, but again, what would that mean in terms of quarantine? Not to mention that politics and other factors keep us from truly having a handle on possible vaccine. We have jobs to get back to (also family, friends, cat) and a two week quarantine, or perhaps being locked out of our state, would be inconvenient at the least. 

We know we are not alone in feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of this decision. 

 

I think you have already decided.  You are not happy with the L&S options - we had none - and concerned about not only possible restrictions but others not following the guidelines.  We are willing to live with masks but sure seems even if the CLIA guidelines are accepted with few or no changes that shore excursions will be limited.  If there is no covid issue on your March cruise, do you think there would be a quaranteen?

Thus seems you can wait till November to decide.  2 months will give you more info to decide what to do. 

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The procedures submitted by Celebrity indicate passengers need to show negative COVID testing before embarking and then temperature testing will be conducted through-out the cruise. I wonder, what does this mean for someone who gets diagnosed with COVID during the cruise?  Will they not be let back on the ship, say in Columbia or other port?  Or, will the person testing positive be let back on / remain on the Celebrity ship but quarantined to their cabin (or other location) until the ship makes it back to the final destination (say FLL)? 

 

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5 minutes ago, CruiseSoon123 said:

The procedures submitted by Celebrity indicate passengers need to show negative COVID testing before embarking and then temperature testing will be conducted through-out the cruise. I wonder, what does this mean for someone who gets diagnosed with COVID during the cruise?  Will they not be let back on the ship, say in Columbia or other port?  Or, will the person testing positive be let back on / remain on the Celebrity ship but quarantined to their cabin (or other location) until the ship makes it back to the final destination (say FLL)? 

 

The guidelines said the cruiseline needs to have an agreement with the ports where the port will accept ill passengers.  Can only think this would mean ill passengers would be put ashore at the next port.  If there was an outbreak of COVID any other procedure could rapidly overwhelm the limited medical services on board.

Again we do not have anything beyond the Royal Caribbean/NCL proposed guidelines and the CLIA letter.  Nothing from any regulatory agency.

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13 minutes ago, CruiseSoon123 said:

The procedures submitted by Celebrity indicate passengers need to show negative COVID testing before embarking and then temperature testing will be conducted through-out the cruise.

Is the passenger responsible for pre testing before they arrive at the port?

At the moment, its almost impossible to get a test in the UK, even for those patients who have symptoms.

Certainly I don’t think out NHS should be paying for passengers who wish to cruise.

My daughter and family recently flew to Madeira. They were tested on arrival at Funchal. They had to quarantine at their hotel until the results were sent to them by text, which took 6-12 hrs. Fortunately, they were all clear and were allowed to continue with their holiday.  

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2 hours ago, dallasdan said:

What is the difference between getting on a cruise ship and going to Walmart or Home Depot, or getting on an airplane.  Are you not going to fly ever again?

There are a lot of people who take Covid-19 very seriously. Sadly there are those who think 200,000 plus American deaths is no big deal. This whole thing is a very big deal. We don’t go to Walmart period, but we do wear masks, get groceries from pickup, and stay home. Will be we able to cruise again, well I hope so, but until many of you grasp the concept of a pandemic it will not “just go away”. It takes cooperation from everyone. We just are not there yet.

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https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2761770-no-sail-order-extended-to-october-31st/?do=findComment&comment=60412053

Thanks Arizona Wildcat.  That makes sense.  However, for me, that seems like a deal breaker as I wouldn't want to get stuck and quarantined someplace with no easy / affordable way back to the states. 

 

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45 minutes ago, upwarduk said:

Is the passenger responsible for pre testing before they arrive at the port?

At the moment, its almost impossible to get a test in the UK, even for those patients who have symptoms.

Certainly I don’t think out NHS should be paying for passengers who wish to cruise.

My daughter and family recently flew to Madeira. They were tested on arrival at Funchal. They had to quarantine at their hotel until the results were sent to them by text, which took 6-12 hrs. Fortunately, they were all clear and were allowed to continue with their holiday.  

Your questions are something the travel industry is definitely looking into.


We received an interesting email yesterday. It was a survey from a travel industry research firm. The questions were specific to travel, cruising and Covid 19. Several of the questions were regarding the PCR (nasal swab) Covid test and were based on the premise that the PCR test would be required for travel. Questions asked included: would we be willing to get this specific test? How important we felt it was in enabling us to cruise again. Would we be willing to get this test, which would be required 72 hours prior to departure. If our Insurance didn’t cover the test, would we be willing to pay for it out of pocket? And how much would we be willing to pay - amounts to select from started at $25 and went up to $300 per person. It was a pretty comprehensive survey. I'm not sure why we received it, there was no mention of X, but the greeting referred to us as “experienced travelers”.

Edited by C-Dragons
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3 hours ago, dallasdan said:

What is the difference between getting on a cruise ship and going to Walmart or Home Depot, or getting on an airplane.  Are you not going to fly ever again?

 

Your response is puzzling. Are you really trying to compare a 10 or 20 minute trip to a Walmart to a 7 to 14 night trip on a cruise ship?  If you honestly feel they are the same I’m sure there is no reason for me to take any time to try and explain the differences. 

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3 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Just because CDC lifts restrictions doesn't mean local govt's will allow cruise ships to call.  Florida under DeSantis will, but skeptical about NY, NJ, Alaska, Cal, Was & PR.

How about foreign ports.  Until there is a vaccine BC Director of Health said no hurry to open the border.  Would that mean cruise ships?  Sentiment in Victoria is tourists stay away.  Cannot see that changing until there is a vaccine with most inoculated. Vancouver Island even rejecting those from Alberta and requiring a 14 day quaranteen.

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4 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Your questions are something the travel industry is definitely looking into.


We received an interesting email yesterday. It was a survey from a travel industry research firm. The questions were specific to travel, cruising and Covid 19. Several of the questions were regarding the PCR (nasal swab) Covid test and were based on the premise that the PCR test would be required for travel. Questions asked included: would we be willing to get this specific test? How important we felt it was in enabling us to cruise again. Would we be willing to get this test, which would be required 72 hours prior to departure. If our Insurance didn’t cover the test, would we be willing to pay for it out of pocket? And how much would we be willing to pay - amounts to select from started at $25 and went up to $300 per person. It was a pretty comprehensive survey. I'm not sure why we received it, there was no mention of X, but the greeting referred to us as “experienced travelers”.

 

I got the same survey.  Taking a test 72 hours prior to departure just means you don't have Covid 72 hours prior to departure.  Really think people should be tested at the pier.  Although the more I read about these tests, the more their accuracy comes into question.

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