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Will Alaska Cruises Substitute Mexico for Canada When they Restart?


SelectSys
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1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:


Why in the world would Americans lobby on behalf of an industry that hasn’t asked for it?  Sorry, but your posts have been a little over sensational on this thread. 

I see so many posts from cruisers who just can't see or don't care about the big picture. All they know is cruising has halted and tantrums must be had. 

 

This brings me to the marketing of loyalty programs and the insanity held by a certain type of frequent cruiser, but that's another thread.

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17 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

A visit to a Russian port would be much more interesting to this cruiser than any port in Mexico if a Canadian port is not able to be visited.  

 

Perhaps, but it doesn't seem too practical given the logistics and time required. 

 

More and more I am thinking Canada will remain closed until 2022.  It may be that the only way cruising will return to Alaska in 2021 will be ships going between the San Pedro and Seward cruise ports. 

 

The cruises would be longer and more expensive, but that is likely the only near term way that cruising will restart in Alaska for the 2021 season.

 

To be honest these cruises would offer new items with additional stops along the US west coast and perhaps persist once Canada reopens to cruising.  I can see the lines adding in a short Mexico cruise after returning to LA to keep the dates better aligned.

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27 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

It may be that the only way cruising will return to Alaska in 2021 will be ships going between the San Pedro and Seward cruise ports. 

Except that a cruise from San Pedro to Seward (or the reverse) isn't legal, unless there's a foreign port stop.  Not being able to stop in Canada messes that up.

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20 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Except that a cruise from San Pedro to Seward (or the reverse) isn't legal, unless there's a foreign port stop.  Not being able to stop in Canada messes that up.

 

That is the role of Ensenada!   As you know, Ensenada really is not that far from San Pedro.

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52 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

That is the role of Ensenada!   As you know, Ensenada really is not that far from San Pedro.

If you are talking about a one way cruise from San Pedro to Seward, then Ensenada does not qualify, as it is not a "distant" foreign port.  If you are talking about round trip San Pedro/Seward/San Pedro, then it does qualify.

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3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Perhaps, but it doesn't seem too practical given the logistics and time required. 

 

My suggestion of a Russian port being included on an Alaskan cruise does suggest a re-thinking of such logistics and time required.  I realize that.  If Alaskan cruises remain unable to resume under the itineraries and times required for such in past cruise seasons for an extended period of time, some "out of the box" thinking is required if the cruise lines wish to resume their Alaska cruises.  

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

If you are talking about a one way cruise from San Pedro to Seward, then Ensenada does not qualify, as it is not a "distant" foreign port.  If you are talking about round trip San Pedro/Seward/San Pedro, then it does qualify.

 

I know that you are correct.  But, I have never really comprehended why.

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7 hours ago, K32682 said:

It would be much more interesting but harder to get to. The nearest acceptable Russian port according to posts earlier in this thread would require several seas days to reach. Additional the Bering Sea is not known for smooth sailing which would appeal to those of us who like heavy seas but might dissuade those with less hearty constitutions. 

 

Regarding the Bering Sea, I have personal knowledge of what they can be like when King Neptune is having a very bad day(s).

Please read the comment to navybankerteacher that follows.

 

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

What Russian Port can you suggest as a stop-over between Seattle and Alaska?  We are not talking about multi-week itineraries.

 

I am simply posting what I would prefer as compared to an Alaskan cruise that would require a visit to any port in Mexico.  

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9 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My suggestion of a Russian port being included on an Alaskan cruise does suggest a re-thinking of such logistics and time required.  I realize that.  If Alaskan cruises remain unable to resume under the itineraries and times required for such in past cruise seasons for an extended period of time, some "out of the box" thinking is required if the cruise lines wish to resume their Alaska cruises.  

 

 

I know that you are correct.  But, I have never really comprehended why.

Because if they allowed transportation between two US ports without a "distant" foreign port, then ships would use ports like Vancouver and Ensenada to make "technical" port stops, and defeat the "intent" of the PVSA.  Heck, without the "distant" foreign port, a ship could go from San Diego, call a "tender" port call at Rosarito, Mexico 27 miles down the coast, and then drop passengers in Seattle.  The "distant" foreign port commits the carrier to an actual foreign voyage to be able to transport between US ports.

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you are talking about a one way cruise from San Pedro to Seward, then Ensenada does not qualify, as it is not a "distant" foreign port.  If you are talking about round trip San Pedro/Seward/San Pedro, then it does qualify.

 

Thanks for the correction.  You seem to know the in's and out's of the regulations very well.  I guess any LA cruise would need to be a minimum of 2 weeks to get up and back.  Maybe a port stop along the way up and back to break up the sea days.

 

Can you specify what are the needed terms to qualify as a legal foreign port stop?  What distance is necessary to qualify as a valid port stop?  My idea for the Ensenada stop was that it would entail passengers getting off the ship for activities.

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27 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Regarding the Bering Sea, I have personal knowledge of what they can be like when King Neptune is having a very bad day(s).

  

I've been watching clips from "Deadliest Catch" on YTube while SIPing. I think most cruise ship Captains would be avoiding 1/10th of the weather that goes on in the Bering. 

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46 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Because if they allowed transportation between two US ports without a "distant" foreign port, then ships would use ports like Vancouver and Ensenada to make "technical" port stops, and defeat the "intent" of the PVSA.  Heck, without the "distant" foreign port, a ship could go from San Diego, call a "tender" port call at Rosarito, Mexico 27 miles down the coast, and then drop passengers in Seattle.  The "distant" foreign port commits the carrier to an actual foreign voyage to be able to transport between US ports.

 

I'm sure you've been asked this before, but if you don't mind, what determines whether a foreign port is a "distant" foreign port?

 

Thanks.

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29 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Can you specify what are the needed terms to qualify as a legal foreign port stop?  What distance is necessary to qualify as a valid port stop?  My idea for the Ensenada stop was that it would entail passengers getting off the ship for activities.

 

2 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I'm sure you've been asked this before, but if you don't mind, what determines whether a foreign port is a "distant" foreign port?

 

Thanks.

For a simple foreign port call (needed for a round trip cruise that starts and ends in the same US port), the port call needs to be advertised as such when the cruise is marketed, and the passengers have to be allowed to go ashore in the port.  I don't recall a time limit, but I'm sure CBP has their own ideas about that.  Ensenada used to be used for round trip Hawaii cruises from the West Coast, where the ship stopped in Ensenada around midnight on the last night, dropped anchor, the port officials came out on a boat, cleared the ship in and cleared the ship out, and the ship picked up the anchor within two hours of dropping it, and sailed off to LA/LB.  These "technical" port calls were outlawed by CBP as meeting the "letter" of the PVSA, while not meeting the "intent".

 

Now, to make a one way cruise, from one US port and disembark in another US port, you need to include a "distant" foreign port, which is defined by CBP as "any port not in North America, Central America, the Caribbean or Bermuda".  So, the closest "distant" foreign ports are Cartagena, Colombia, the "ABC" islands (Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao) which are considered geographically to be part of South America, or Greenland.

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4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, the closest "distant" foreign ports are Cartagena, Colombia, the "ABC" islands (Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao) which are considered geographically to be part of South America, or Greenland.

 

 

I know now why my COVID cancelled cruise from Florida to NY last May included the ABC islands!

 

I looked online and found this description of the act:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

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1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

...

 

 

I am simply posting what I would prefer as compared to an Alaskan cruise that would require a visit to any port in Mexico.  

I agree — I would prefer 8 or 10 days crossing/recrossing the Bering Sea to stop at some Kamchatka fishing village to anything on the “Mexican Riviera” 

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1 minute ago, SelectSys said:

 

I know now why my COVID cancelled cruise from Florida to NY last May included the ABC islands!

 

I looked online and found this description of the act:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

The Wiki article about the PVSA, especially its origins and intent are not correct.  The act was enacted when maritime labor organizations were in their infancy, and the types of ships that the act covered (most passenger vessels at that time were sternwheeler steamboats) were not the type that were being built overseas and sailed to the US for use.  To really know why the PVSA was passed, you need to study the various Steamboat Acts, from 1830-1850 or so, which were designed to protect passengers from the all too frequent fires and explosions on these steamboats.  The safety requirements of these Acts (and they formed the US Steamboat Inspection Service, which is the predecessor of today's USCG Marine Inspection Division) drove ship owners to flag their steamboats to other nations, thereby avoiding the cost of the safety regulations.  The PVSA made it mandatory that domestic steamboats (passenger vessels) be US flag, so that the safety measures could be enforced.

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4 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

That is the role of Ensenada!   As you know, Ensenada really is not that far from San Pedro.

Well, it could pull a couple of days out of the itinerary, meaning that Alaska cruises would probably need to be over a week long if they used Ensenada as the foreign port.

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32 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Well, it could pull a couple of days out of the itinerary, meaning that Alaska cruises would probably need to be over a week long if they used Ensenada as the foreign port.

 

Unfortunately chengkp75 explained that Ensenada wouldn't work for a one way cruise.  It would be round trip or nothing!

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1 hour ago, Philob said:

I've been watching clips from "Deadliest Catch" on YTube while SIPing. I think most cruise ship Captains would be avoiding 1/10th of the weather that goes on in the Bering. 

 

Absolutely, a ship's Master would avoid such seas that we see on that TV program.  Even then, doing the best that they can and altering course to avoid King Neptune's wrath, sailing in that body of water ought not to be expected to be a "walk in the park on a Summer afternoon".  

 

Being in the Crow's Nest of the Volendam during her 2002 Asia Pacific Cruise sailing through that part of the Pacific, we encountered, twice, very rough seas.  I witnessed the ship's bow plunge into troughs causing sea water--not sea spray--to be thrown above the top of the Crow's Nest.  One walked through the ship from hand hold to hand hold!

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Thanks for posting this idea. 

 

As a temporary work-around to allow some cruising from the U.S. mainland to Alaska this would seem to have some merit.   

 

Of course, it won't replace the volume of ships that visit Alaska with embarkation at Seattle and Vancouver, bit it would seem to be feasible to offer a 14-day itinerary from San Diego to Ensenada then north to Alaska, stopping in Monterey, Astoria and then on to Alaska.

 

One the return journey the final stop could be in San Francisco if there was not time to get all the way back to San Diego.

 

Princess offers a 10-day Alaskan cruise out of San Francisco, which is quite popular and a 14-day Hawaiian cruise (stops in Ensenada for the foreign port requirement) that is also  popular.

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13 minutes ago, Smokeyham said:

One the return journey the final stop could be in San Francisco if there was not time to get all the way back to San Diego.

Uh, no.  That would be a transportation between two US ports, embark in San Diego, disembark in San Francisco, so that would require a "distant" foreign port.

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2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Uh, no.  That would be a transportation between two US ports, embark in San Diego, disembark in San Francisco, so that would require a "distant" foreign port.

So, is the reason that they can use Ensenada for the SF - Hawaii - SF cruise because it starts and ends at the same U.S. port?

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2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Absolutely, a ship's Master would avoid such seas that we see on that TV program.  Even then, doing the best that they can and altering course to avoid King Neptune's wrath, sailing in that body of water ought not to be expected to be a "walk in the park on a Summer afternoon".  

 

Being in the Crow's Nest of the Volendam during her 2002 Asia Pacific Cruise sailing through that part of the Pacific, we encountered, twice, very rough seas.  I witnessed the ship's bow plunge into troughs causing sea water--not sea spray--to be thrown above the top of the Crow's Nest.  One walked through the ship from hand hold to hand hold!

Are you talking about “green water”  meaning solid sea water as opposed to spray going above the Crow’s Nest — that seems extremely unlikely.

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4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Now, to make a one way cruise, from one US port and disembark in another US port, you need to include a "distant" foreign port, which is defined by CBP as "any port not in North America, Central America, the Caribbean or Bermuda".  So, the closest "distant" foreign ports are Cartagena, Colombia, the "ABC" islands (Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao) which are considered geographically to be part of South America, or Greenland.

Maybe from the east coast. From Alaska, I think Russia might be closer than Greenland!

enjoy

Ron

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