HAL reducing long exotic voyages

[Tampa Girl]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

What might those itineraries be?  I will suggest some.

 

The Grand World Cruise

Voyage of the Vikings'

The Grand South America Cruise

Viking Passage type itineraries, i.e Boston/New York to/from Northern Europe as in re-positioning cruises

Complete transits from Florida to California and return of the Panama Canal

Caribbean cruises that exceed the "usual" 7-10-11 day itineraries:  14-21 days with overnights in some ports and sailing a wider geographic area, including Bermuda, than has been done.

 

Other thoughts?

Grand Asia, pls!

[AtlantaCruiser72]

4 hours ago, KirkNC said:

If this is the future, just combine HAL and Princess and be done with it.

 

I think HAL, Cunard and Seabourn may long term be more integrated with one another from a management and operations standpoint but maintain separate customer facing identities.  There is also some overlap in the consumer facing product in HAL and Cunard already - especially considering the Queen Elizabeth and Victoria are basically a hybrid of the HAL Signature/Pinnacle class ships with a Cunard red funnel.  The forthcoming 4th Cunarder will be based off the Pinnacle class as well.  The HAL vessels are totally incompatible with the Princess product, but more compatible with Cunard.

[Tampa Girl]

2 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

I think HAL, Cunard and Seabourn may long term be more integrated with one another from a management and operations standpoint but maintain separate customer facing identities.  There is also some overlap in the consumer facing product in HAL and Cunard already - especially considering the Queen Elizabeth and Victoria are basically a hybrid of the HAL Signature/Pinnacle class ships with a Cunard red funnel.  The forthcoming 4th Cunarder will be based off the Pinnacle class as well.  The HAL vessels are totally incompatible with the Princess product, but more compatible with Cunard.

 

I thought that the QE and Victoria were based more on the Vista class.  No?

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Just now, Tampa Girl said:

 

I thought that the QE and Victoria were based more on the Vista class.  No?

 

They are closer to the Signature or Pinnacle classes from HAL, which were themselves an evolution of the Vista Class.  Regardless - from a layout & passenger flow perspective the QE/QV have more DNA in common with HAL ships than HAL have with Princess (even though the Princess interior design team was responsible for the decor/finish of the Cunard vessels).

[KirkNC]

My comments on combination were based on two things, one, Princess and HAL currently  share many back room functions and two customer demographics and perceived target market.  To me, Seabourn and Cunard are very different market segments from  HAL.  Seabourn is semi-luxury and Cunard is more traditional British while HAL is just another mass market cruise line (like Princess).

[rafinmd]

QE and QV are basically Signature/Vista ships and bear little in common with the Pinnacle Class.  Their new ship will be based on the Pinnacle model.

 

Roy

[Stateroom_Sailor]

3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

My comments on combination were based on two things, one, Princess and HAL currently  share many back room functions and two customer demographics and perceived target market.  To me, Seabourn and Cunard are very different market segments from  HAL.  Seabourn is semi-luxury and Cunard is more traditional British while HAL is just another mass market cruise line (like Princess).

 

I've never sailed Princess, but I can see that there is an obvious contrast in atmosphere.  Cunard makes more sense, especially since they're slightly different products.  Both lines could benefit from from a larger fleet, strengthening itineraries.

[rkacruiser]

22 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

  Both lines could benefit from from a larger fleet, strengthening itineraries

 

I find this an unusual comment considering the fleet reduction that is taking place in some of the cruise lines under the CCL umbrella.  I would be interested in learning your thinking.

[nocl]

12 hours ago, KirkNC said:

The elimination of longer itineraries would make HAL just another mass market cruise line (its close to that even with longer itineraries).  The crew is a plus but we follow the itineraries and have zero interest in short cruises especially those to places we have been to numerous times already.  If this is the future, just combine HAL and Princess and be done with it.  I understand about revenue and profitability, I was a CFO at a bank in another life.  In order to make longer itineraries profitable, raise the price, provide a few more crew and amenities and everyone is happy. 

from what I have seen over the past several years that there was a time when HAL tried the price approach, but ran into the limits of their pricing power which with the smallest avg ship size of the mass market lines, also had a price point that was at the high end of mass market. 

 

the result was an aging customer base with limited draw of new passengers.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

6 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I find this an unusual comment considering the fleet reduction that is taking place in some of the cruise lines under the CCL umbrella.  I would be interested in learning your thinking.

 

I think that Cunard and HAL have similar ships, pace, and are destination driven.  If we were able to status match, or even earn Mariner points, it would add options to passengers on both lines.  I've seen more British passengers on HAL than any of our previously sailed lines, there's decent crossover appeal. 

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

46 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I think that Cunard and HAL have similar ships, pace, and are destination driven.  If we were able to status match, or even earn Mariner points, it would add options to passengers on both lines.  I've seen more British passengers on HAL than any of our previously sailed lines, there's decent crossover appeal. 

 

I work as a cruise sales agent and I have far more crossover between HAL/Cunard that I do from either line to/from Princess. HAL’s larger fleet and diversity of itineraries appeals to many of my Cunard clients, while Cunard has far better enrichment activities and still offers ballroom dancing which appeals to many of my HAL clients.  Both ships have a more traditional decor and focus on brand heritage as well.

 

Realistically Holland America, Princess, Cunard and Seabourn all fall under the “Holland America Group” within Carnival Corp. I don’t think we will see any of the brands merged into the others, but I think we see Carnival Corp. take a more aggressive approach to flattening the management and operational structure of the 4 brands.  Given the size of the fleets it would make sense to have two management teams going forward - one for Princess and one for HAL, Cunard and Seabourn.

Edited October 10, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

I work as a cruise sales agent and I have far more crossover between HAL/Cunard that I do from either line to/from Princess. HAL’s larger fleet and diversity of itineraries appeals to many of my Cunard clients, while Cunard has far better enrichment activities and still offers ballroom dancing which appeals to many of my HAL clients.  Both ships have a more traditional decor and focus on brand heritage as well.

 

 

But if HAL stops offering longer, more varied itineraries, then they are edging away from Cunard and toward Princess, IMO.  You may find that the cross-over between HAL and Cunard slows quite a bit. 

[nocl]

HAL, Princess, Seabourn, and P&O Australia make up the Holland America Group within CCL.  The CEO of the HAL Group is Stein Kruse.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But if HAL stops offering longer, more varied itineraries, then they are edging away from Cunard and toward Princess, IMO.  You may find that the cross-over between HAL and Cunard slows quite a bit. 

Thanks, that was my point.  What used to happen is no longer relevant.  The new HAL will be different and without varied and extended itineraries it becomes just another mass market line.

[lcand1923]

I have taken one Princess Cruise, one Cunard cruise and am 4 Star on HAL.  I could see similarities between all three cruise lines.  To me, Princess was a bit noisier and busier.  Cunard reminded me of the HAL cruises of old -- elegant and classy.  The best staff on any is still HAL.  I would said on Princess without any difficulty.  I would be very hesitant to sail on Cunard because of poor Customer Service that I got in every venue on the vessel.

[iancal]

I believe that the covid scourge has a long way to go and it's impact will be even longer on the cruise industry.

 

The industry is bleeding.  I would not rule out or assume anything when it comes to disposals of ships, merging of cruise lines, etc. in order to streamline operations and reduce expenses.

Edited October 10, 2020 by iancal

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 If we were able to status match, or even earn Mariner points, it would add options to passengers on both lines.  I've seen more British passengers on HAL than any of our previously sailed lines, there's decent crossover appeal. 

 

Re:  Our friends across the Pond, I agree.  I am always surprised to see that many of these folks spend the airfare to fly to Florida for a short Caribbean cruise.

 

The issue of loyalty status match among brands of CCL has been brought--at least prior to Covid-19--a level of importance than I don't think it had before.  Admission requirements to MSC's Voyager's Club included not just loyalty status with a cruise line, but with hotel and airline programs.  I was awarded Black Card (Diamond) Status--the highest tier--for my first MSC cruise before I even embarked MSC Meraviglia because of my 5 Star Mariner Status.  RCI has long recognized cruises within their program regardless of whatever cruise brand on which the guest sailed.  

 

CCL needs to get "with the program".  Once when all of this current mess is resolved.  

[Woofbite]

23 hours ago, lcand1923 said:

I have taken one Princess Cruise, one Cunard cruise and am 4 Star on HAL.  I could see similarities between all three cruise lines.  To me, Princess was a bit noisier and busier.  Cunard reminded me of the HAL cruises of old -- elegant and classy.  The best staff on any is still HAL.  I would said on Princess without any difficulty.  I would be very hesitant to sail on Cunard because of poor Customer Service that I got in every venue on the vessel.

Couldn't agree more.  Cunard was the the most disappointing cruise to date.  Magnificent ship, great guest speaker, crummy food, miserable understaffed service and having to stand due to limited seating areas for every venue to open spoiled it all.

 

 

[Storylady]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:48 PM, PSR said:

 

Sorry you feel that way. HAL should try to appeal to all ages; cruising is one of the few types of travel that seniors can enjoy: no packing/unpacking, doing as little or as much as you want (on or off the ship), food easily available, etc. We have cruised for many years and still find it enjoyable and easy (once you can get to the ship!).

I agree, plus the younger crowd will eventually be 70 plus.

[iancal]

We have met many, many seniors on our land travels were either part of an organized tour or were touring independently.    I make a point of asking them about their organized tours as I may be interested on one.

 

Additionally, we have seen more and more seniors doing independent travels in southern Europe and in SE Asia over the past few years.   We are in our late sixties.  We still travel independently for two months at a time, twice per year.   Sometimes picking up last minute cruises during those trips.

 

It would be a mistake IMHO to assume that cruising is one of the 'few' types of travel that seniors can enjoy.  On our last trip we became friends with some British retirees in their very late 70's.  Like us they were traveling independently through Thailand and had been doing so on an annual basis for quite some time.  Just heard from them recently.  They had flown off to Crete for a few weeks of independent travel.

Edited October 12, 2020 by iancal

[vicd1969]

 I dread to see what the message board discussions about dress code will be like if HAL and Cunard merge 😳

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, vicd1969 said:

 I dread to see what the message board discussions about dress code will be like if HAL and Cunard merge 😳

 

I think it's safe to say that the HAL crowd won't agree to coat/tie every night except for the first and last night.  

[AtlantaCruiser72]

11 hours ago, vicd1969 said:

 I dread to see what the message board discussions about dress code will be like if HAL and Cunard merge 😳

When “casual” means a waistcoat, dicky bow, and Norfolk jacket........

[Stateroom_Sailor]

On 10/10/2020 at 7:15 AM, KirkNC said:

Thanks, that was my point.  What used to happen is no longer relevant.  The new HAL will be different and without varied and extended itineraries it becomes just another mass market line.

 

I believe the important thing to do, is continue to vote with our dollars, on exotic and extended itineraries that are left.  HAL's job is to market to a wider base, including younger, that would pay for such options.

[drowelf]

9 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I believe the important thing to do, is continue to vote with our dollars, on exotic and extended itineraries that are left.  HAL's job is to market to a wider base, including younger, that would pay for such options.

Marketing extended and exotic itineraries to younger crowds comes with challenges. The people in their 30s & 40s are in the middle of their careers and may not be able to get sufficient time off to take a 2-3 or more week vacation each year. What to do with the little ones comes into factor too. I believe that is why the shorter Caribbean and Alaska cruises are so popular with that crowd. 

 

I've been fortunate in that since I run my own business that I could take off 2-3 weeks, several times a year to take an extended cruise over the past 2.5 decades. Especially as internet access become more available on the ships,  in the new millennium,  I could stay in touch with my clients and take care of any issues that arose. I remember dealing with emails and solving issues in 2015, as we steamed across the Drake Passage heading for Antarctica. Another time my phone rang while in Heimaey Island just after we finished our Puffins and Volcanos Tour. I was able to take several conference calls before we left port and then dealt with a programming issue as we left the port. Nothing like getting in a few billable hours while on vacation to offset the costs. 🤑

Edited October 13, 2020 by drowelf