Congressional Investigation into CDC No-Sail Order

[voyager70]

10 minutes ago, cured said:

I wouldn't hold your breath or listen to the President on when a vaccine will be available.

 

2 vaccines, AstraZeneca/Oxford and then Johnson and Johnson just this week had to put their phase 3 trials on hold due to serious side effects.

 

There is no way there is going to be a vaccine before the election or even shortly after to enable cruising in the near future.  

 

The government controls the website.  They have erased pretty much everything that relates to science on its websites. Redfield and Fauci are starting to find their backbones and talk science rather than what they have been muzzled from saying.

 

Knowledge of the virus is growing, thus recommendations for mitigation changes.

 

Foreign ports are working because their governments have managed to get the virus under control. There is a reason citizens from the US are still not allowed to travel to those countries. And why Trudeau just announced that the Canadian border will remain closed until the US gets the virus under control.

 

Hate to rain on your parade but Canada's cases are rising as well as most European countries.

 

[cured]

12 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

 

Hate to rain on your parade but Canada's cases are rising as well as most European countries.

 

Yup, but nothing like the US.  

 

I really hope the rumored short cruises to Mexico happen and happen safely.  I really do want to cruise. But I want to do it on the recommendation of science, not politics, not business economics.

Edited October 15, 2020 by cured

[voyager70]

2 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I respectfully and with great sincerity disagree. If this average Joe can study youtube videos and medical reports internationally (especially of countries who were super successful and those that failed miserably - Italy) rather than watching USA Fox and CNN crap news, so could have top officials here in North America.

 

Sorry Hoopster but I don't understand - where are you getting your news

 

[voyager70]

2 minutes ago, cured said:

Yup, but nothing like the US.  

Winter's coming, we'll see what happens.  By all reports things will get much worse here in the US.  I suspect to the same will happen, sadly, all across the Northern Hemisphere.  

[cured]

10 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

Winter's coming, we'll see what happens.  By all reports things will get much worse here in the US.  I suspect to the same will happen, sadly, all across the Northern Hemisphere.  

Yes, that has been predicted since almost the beginning.  Everyone starting to huddle indoors coupled with Covid fatigue is not a pretty picture.  

 

I have a family member working on the Moderna vaccine and there is promise for an effective vaccine, but just not the quick vaccine that politics is promising.  He still hasn't backed out of our August family cruise, so I am taking that as a good sign.  Although he has cautioned not to get our hopes up too high. It will all depend on how the trials go.

Edited October 15, 2020 by cured

[Hoopster95]

12 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

 

Sorry Hoopster but I don't understand - where are you getting your news

 

 

ie. I posted this video here on CC weeks after discussions about the success in S. Korea vs. the failures in Italy

 

I googled hundreds of different articles from everywhere, and ignored everything I was reading from North America.

I had posted several links at the time, couldn't be bothered to look for them all.

I also watch Aljazeera and BBC world news. 

I live in a multicultural city... many of my clients have pay stations to their home countries (India, Japan, you name it) and watch programming in their home language, including world news. I have learned ( I hope some truths) from some of that as well.

[Milwaukee Eight]

39 minutes ago, cured said:

 

2 vaccines, AstraZeneca/Oxford and then Johnson and Johnson just this week had to put their phase 3 trials on hold due to serious side effects.

Where did you get factual information that the pause was due to “serious” side effects?

 

M8

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Where did you get factual information that the pause was due to “serious” side effects?

 

M8

Yes.

 

About all I can find is ‘unexplained illness’.  Nothing about a side effect of any severity.

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Yes.

 

About all I can find is ‘unexplained illness’.  Nothing about a side effect of any severity.

The first pause was for a very minor Anomaly. Nothing “serious”. Restarted within a week (I think). Hopefully the current pause is short as well. 
 

M8

[cured]

25 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Yes.

 

About all I can find is ‘unexplained illness’.  Nothing about a side effect of any severity.

AstraZeneca was paused due to 2 serious illnesses, both participants showing symptoms of transverse myelitis. Johnson and Johnson has not indicated what side effect caused them to pause, but then they just paused this week and are still investigating.

 

As of October 6th, AstraZeneca was still paused in the US.

 

Pauses in vaccine trials are common. But it does delay the date of release. 

 

What is not common is a pause in a late stage trial for a therapeutic.

 

Eli Lilly has also paused the testing of its monoclonal antibody therapeutic drug in combination with Remdesivir (same cocktail as what Trump received) due to safety concerns while testing on hospitalized patients.  This does not bode well for the quick approval of monoclonal antibody treatment.

Edited October 16, 2020 by cured

[cured]

17 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

The first pause was for a very minor Anomaly. Nothing “serious”. Restarted within a week (I think). Hopefully the current pause is short as well. 
 

M8

Who paused for a very minor anomaly? Not AstraZeneca. They are still paused in the US.  The two participants that became ill were seriously ill with symptoms of Transverse Myelitis.  Johnson and Johnson just paused and are still investigating.

 

This is the filing for the AZ vaccine. Note that the end date for the trial of the vaccine is August, 2021. NOT November 2020.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04400838

Edited October 16, 2020 by cured

[voyager70]

43 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

ie. I posted this video here on CC weeks after discussions about the success in S. Korea vs. the failures in Italy

 

I googled hundreds of different articles from everywhere, and ignored everything I was reading from North America.

I had posted several links at the time, couldn't be bothered to look for them all.

I also watch Aljazeera and BBC world news. 

I live in a multicultural city... many of my clients have pay stations to their home countries (India, Japan, you name it) and watch programming in their home language, including world news. I have learned ( I hope some truths) from some of that as well.

 

Believe it or not we get those same stations here in the US.  Shocker.. 

[firefly333]

48 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Yes.

 

About all I can find is ‘unexplained illness’.  Nothing about a side effect of any severity.

Actually this last pause was due to how they were recording results or some such, not due to a illness. It was only paused in USA not other countries doing the same phase 3 trials. 

 

The other one was paused due to the unexplained illness. 

 

Some think politics played a part in the usa pause. Idk have no idea. 

 

If I could get the vaccine in another country tbh I would., sick and tired of politics

 

The safety issues I heard on tv ... tried to google why this last pause. Talks about safety and a possible event, readings ... no where does it actually say someone got sick from taking the vaccine. .. unless possible event is a code word.

 

I've heard protocols werent followed, events, other words, who knows exactly why but those in charge. It's not clear to me. I did hear only paused in USA because of protocols not followed. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/health/covid-clinical-trials.html

Edited October 16, 2020 by firefly333

[cured]

32 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Actually this last pause was due to how they were recording results or some such, not due to a illness. It was only paused in USA not other countries doing the same phase 3 trials. 

 

The other one was paused due to the unexplained illness. 

 

Some think politics played a part in the usa pause. Idk have no idea. 

 

If I could get the vaccine in another country tbh I would., sick and tired of politics

 

The safety issues I heard on tv ... tried to google why this last pause. Talks about safety and a possible event, readings ... no where does it actually say someone got sick from taking the vaccine. .. unless possible event is a code word.

 

I've heard protocols werent followed, events, other words, who knows exactly why but those in charge. It's not clear to me. I did hear only paused in USA because of protocols not followed. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/health/covid-clinical-trials.html

Wrong. Did you even read the NYT article you are quoting?

 

The trial was paused due to 2 participants contracting Transverse Myelitis (although AstaZeneca is admitting to only 1). 

This is straight from the NYT article you quoted:

This week, two high-profile, late-stage clinical trials — Johnson & Johnson’s test of a coronavirus vaccine and Eli Lilly’s study of a Covid-19 drug — were put on pause because of possible safety concerns. Just a month earlier, AstraZeneca’s vaccine trial was paused after two volunteers became seriously ill.

 

This is clinical trial experts talking about the significance of pausing a trial. Here they are talking about the Eli Lilly trial, also from your NYT article:

And although pauses of vaccine trials are not unusual, some experts said that pausing treatment trials — like that of Eli Lilly’s antibody drug — is rarer, and perhaps more worrisome.

That trial was testing the treatment on hospitalized patients — a group that was already sick, and in which declines in health would not be surprising. So for a trial like that one to be paused, the safety concerns must have been significant, they said.

“I’ve done 50-plus monitoring committees, and it’s quite a rare thing to do,” said Tim Friede, a biostatistician at University Medical Center Göttingen in Germany, referring to his role as a safety monitor for drug trials.

 

Also from your article, explaining an adverse event, an event with significant enough safety concerns to pause a trial:
Mild symptoms, like a minor rash or a headache, aren’t enough to pause a trial. But when investigators notice a serious problem — known as an “adverse event” — they have to report it to the sponsoring companies. And the sponsors then have to report to both the Food and Drug Administration and their independent advisers, known as data and safety monitoring boards.

 

If the board or the company judges the adverse event to be particularly concerning, they may put the trial on pause — even without yet knowing if the event happened to someone who got the treatment or the placebo.

 

Read this one:

https://www.virology.ws/2020/09/17/the-astrazeneca-oxford-university-phase-3-covid-19-vaccine-trial-why-was-it-paused/

Edited October 16, 2020 by cured

[Milwaukee Eight]

48 minutes ago, cured said:

Who paused for a very minor anomaly? Not AstraZeneca. They are still paused in the US.  The two participants that became ill were seriously ill with symptoms of Transverse Myelitis.  Johnson and Johnson just paused and are still investigating.

 

This is the filing for the AZ vaccine. Note that the end date for the trial of the vaccine is August, 2021. NOT November 2020.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04400838

I shared your link with the one in my house that can give an opinion of the data and Transverse Myelitis. She has some experience with TM. 
 

M8

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, cured said:

Wrong. Did you even read the NYT article you are quoting?

 

The trial was paused due to 2 participants contracting Transverse Myelitis (although AstaZeneca is admitting to only 1). 

 

Read this one:

https://www.virology.ws/2020/09/17/the-astrazeneca-oxford-university-phase-3-covid-19-vaccine-trial-why-was-it-paused/

Read it and have listened and find what's said confusing. Why only paused here?

 

I have 0 medical knowledge. I faint from shots. Seems conflicting things said. Even you said 2 got something but only 1 reported, why?

 

Why not pause in UK

 

And what was that about possible contamination?

 

I listen hoping they start back. I'm afraid of covid and want vaccine. I tried to volunteer, but they wanted minorities or front line workers. Whatever I can do to get vaccinated I will when I find a way. 

 

Sorry but I do think there are some things unexplained. ... like why just a pause here? Last I read they were still checking to see if the person or persons affected had the real vaccine or placebo.

 

The article I quoted also said with that many people its only normal some will get sick unrelated. 

 

Hopefully by next year there will be a vaccine or I'll fly to where I can get it. 

[cured]

7 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I shared your link with the one in my house that can give an opinion of the data and Transverse Myelitis. She has some experience with TM. 
 

M8

Great. I would love to hear another opinion!  I have someone in my house working on one of the vaccines but I am a bit biased as to his opinion since he is my kid.  So, I would love to hear some other opinions from medical professionals.

[bia]

10 hours ago, yogimax said:

So many people have died and are continuing to die without these lock downs.

We are still having problems.  The lock down has nothing but hurt business and our children who need to go to school.  {Put mask on open up business and start living.  This is going to be the new norm if we allow it.

 

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, cured said:

AstraZeneca was paused due to 2 serious illnesses, both participants showing symptoms of transverse myelitis. Johnson and Johnson has not indicated what side effect caused them to pause, but then they just paused this week and are still investigating.

 

As of October 6th, AstraZeneca was still paused in the US.

 

Pauses in vaccine trials are common. But it does delay the date of release. 

 

What is not common is a pause in a late stage trial for a therapeutic.

 

Eli Lilly has also paused the testing of its monoclonal antibody therapeutic drug in combination with Remdesivir (same cocktail as what Trump received) due to safety concerns while testing on hospitalized patients.  This does not bode well for the quick approval of monoclonal antibody treatment.

This ^^^^ exactly correct !!!

[yogimax]

17 minutes ago, bia said:

We are still having problems.  The lock down has nothing but hurt business and our children who need to go to school. 

"The lock down has done nothing..."

 

How about saving lives?
 

[John&LaLa]

12 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If bankruptcy happens, it depends whether it's a chapter 7 or 11.   Under chapter 11, a business can continue to operate while reorganizing.  If it's a chapter 7, it's a total liquidation and we can kiss our FCCs, deposits, and paid cruises goodbye. 

 

I think mine are protected by some Canadian TA law

[John&LaLa]

8 hours ago, Ashland said:

Or at least the points we would have received on our RCI cancelled cruise 

 

Yea, right.

[Ourusualbeach]

30 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I think mine are protected by some Canadian TA law

TICO 

[Wedgeh]

14 hours ago, Cannavaro said:

The thing about stats is it can always be pointed in a favorable direction of one's choosing.

 

Absolutely and the point of my choosing is that the problems you encounter at a different order of magnitude of infection rates are not the same, therefore looking at Italy and especially Singapore as solid comparisons is asinine.

[livingonthebeach]

4 hours ago, Wedgeh said:

Absolutely and the point of my choosing is that the problems you encounter at a different order of magnitude of infection rates are not the same, therefore looking at Italy and especially Singapore as solid comparisons is asinine.

 

Clearly, no one is comparing Europe, Asia, Polynesia and other parts of the world where cruising operations have restarted, to the United States.  What was mentioned was, if the protocols they are using elsewhere in the world are working, then it is possible with some modifications to our market, they could work here.

 

While we have a different culture, norms, traditions and laws (even between the states of our own country),  we are very much a part of a global economy, and as such, do not function entirely on our own as a remote, isolated nation or a different planet.  We are still a leader in world transportation, trade and commerce and it is time we step up to the plate and demonstrate that we too, can do it right using safe, responsible, methodical, innovative protocols and prove we have not lost our way.

Edited October 16, 2020 by livingonthebeach