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The future of Cunard


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It looks like the new ship for Cunard will be delayed until 2023. This is a sad news because I think that Cunard really needs something new in the fleet. I wonder why Cunard doesn't consider building another ocean liner.  They say that Queen Mary 2 will be the last ocean liner in history. And as far as I know there is (or at least before the pandemic there was) a huge interest in QM2 cruises, even though they are rather expensive.  No other ship ever draws such crowds of onlookers when it enters a port. The QM2 is an icon, as people can embrace the atmosphere of 20th century luxury liners while having the comfort and amenities of the 21st century cruise ship. I believe that a second similar liner of the QM2 type could be a great success on the cruise market. What do you think?

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42 minutes ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

It looks like the new ship for Cunard will be delayed until 2023. This is a sad news because I think that Cunard really needs something new in the fleet. I wonder why Cunard doesn't consider building another ocean liner.  They say that Queen Mary 2 will be the last ocean liner in history. And as far as I know there is (or at least before the pandemic there was) a huge interest in QM2 cruises, even though they are rather expensive.  No other ship ever draws such crowds of onlookers when it enters a port. The QM2 is an icon, as people can embrace the atmosphere of 20th century luxury liners while having the comfort and amenities of the 21st century cruise ship. I believe that a second similar liner of the QM2 type could be a great success on the cruise market. What do you think?

They will probably build the Queen Mary 3 in 2030. Or maybe the Queen Mary 2 is timeless and can sail new york/soton with a few fijords and a world cruise forever as it is unique. And can be refurbished again and again. They don't need to change too much do they? Keep the ballroom the afternoon tea, the theatres the lecturer program. The 3 or 4 bars that never get too crowded, the white glove service. That brand can go on forever.

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38 minutes ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

It looks like the new ship for Cunard will be delayed until 2023. This is a sad news because I think that Cunard really needs something new in the fleet. I wonder why Cunard doesn't consider building another ocean liner.  They say that Queen Mary 2 will be the last ocean liner in history. And as far as I know there is (or at least before the pandemic there was) a huge interest in QM2 cruises, even though they are rather expensive.  No other ship ever draws such crowds of onlookers when it enters a port. The QM2 is an icon, as people can embrace the atmosphere of 20th century luxury liners while having the comfort and amenities of the 21st century cruise ship. I believe that a second similar liner of the QM2 type could be a great success on the cruise market. What do you think?

 

Must admit having no real interest in the new Cunard ship.  

It's going to be a Carnivalised version, being too big in terms of guests, no wrap-round deck, with the target market possibly for those seeking a more relaxed dress code and "fun" cruise. But there are plenty of alternatives out there.  

The new ship will be Cunard, but not Cunard.

 

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48 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Must admit having no real interest in the new Cunard ship.  

It's going to be a Carnivalised version, being too big in terms of guests, no wrap-round deck, with the target market possibly for those seeking a more relaxed dress code and "fun" cruise. But there are plenty of alternatives out there.  

The new ship will be Cunard, but not Cunard.

 

Yes, that's right, the new ship is a disappointment, it's a shame that Carnival is bringing its standards to Cunard and P&O, since the newest Iona is also disappointingly huge. Now Carnival has serious financial problems, so after the pandemic, they will probably focus even more on maximizing the efficiency. We can only hope they will understand that people love Cunard for its quality and that they won’t destroy this wonderful brand. 
By the way, what alternatives do you have in mind?  Which line offers similar service like Cunard?

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8 minutes ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

 

Yes, that's right, the new ship is a disappointment, it's a shame that Carnival is bringing its standards to Cunard and P&O, since the newest Iona is also disappointingly huge. Now Carnival has serious financial problems, so after the pandemic, they will probably focus even more on maximizing the efficiency. We can only hope they will understand that people love Cunard for its quality and that they won’t destroy this wonderful brand. 
By the way, what alternatives do you have in mind?  Which line offers similar service like Cunard?

Apparently Azamara and Regent are the ultimate in service. And celeb is up there too so they say Though I have never been on any of them.

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29 minutes ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

 

Yes, that's right, the new ship is a disappointment, it's a shame that Carnival is bringing its standards to Cunard and P&O, since the newest Iona is also disappointingly huge. Now Carnival has serious financial problems, so after the pandemic, they will probably focus even more on maximizing the efficiency. We can only hope they will understand that people love Cunard for its quality and that they won’t destroy this wonderful brand. 
By the way, what alternatives do you have in mind?  Which line offers similar service like Cunard?

 

Have I missed something? Or is the ship no more than some pieces of (likely delayed) metal at the moment? Or do we already have deck plans etc?

 

I think yes you can say it's disappointing that we know no promenade deck etc, given the class of ship it will be based on. But I would wait for her to be a little more revealed before making such sweeping statements? 

 

I mean we all know we're not getting another liner, and likely something much more akin to QE and QV. But lets wait and see surely?

 

Frankly I was just grateful (pre-covid) that Cunard was getting a 4th ship full stop.

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Any business performs a delicate balancing act when attempting to update their brand.  If they never update what they offer they risk having their customer base age-out.  If they innovate too drastically they risk alienating their customer base.   Cunard has already made changes to the dress code that generated a lot of pro and con discussion here.   They will have to differentiate their brand or people will sail for lowest price rather than for a unique experience or level of service. 

 

As for the newbuild, assuming it goes forward, we know very little other than that it's the 4th variation of the Konningsdam model.   There's not enough information to make judgements. 

 

As for QM2, she would already have a fleet mate if the demand for TA service could support the profitable operation of two ocean liners.  As it is the demand isn't sufficient for one year-round.  If it were she would not be on a world voyage in the winter months but instead would be sailing the north Atlantic.

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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

Apparently Azamara and Regent are the ultimate in service. And celeb is up there too so they say Though I have never been on any of them.

 

I've worked on board all of the Azamara fleet, Seven Seas Navigator and  Seven Seas Voyager.   However, my favourite is Seven Seas Explorer.    A truly breathtakingly beautiful ship.

 

As a passenger, my heart lies with Queen Mary 2.

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2 hours ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

 

Yes, that's right, the new ship is a disappointment, it's a shame that Carnival is bringing its standards to Cunard and P&O, since the newest Iona is also disappointingly huge. Now Carnival has serious financial problems, so after the pandemic, they will probably focus even more on maximizing the efficiency. We can only hope they will understand that people love Cunard for its quality and that they won’t destroy this wonderful brand. 
By the way, what alternatives do you have in mind?  Which line offers similar service like Cunard?

Apolgises, was referring to the many options for casual party ship, not similar to Cunard.

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5 hours ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Must admit having no real interest in the new Cunard ship.  

It's going to be a Carnivalised version, being too big in terms of guests, no wrap-round deck, with the target market possibly for those seeking a more relaxed dress code and "fun" cruise. But there are plenty of alternatives out there.  

The new ship will be Cunard, but not Cunard.

 

 

For once I agree with PR. The new ship will not be like the existing Cunard ships. It will have  only 60% of outside , ie open to sun, public space per passenger than the existing Cunard ships. It will also have only 70% of inside space (based on space ratio) compared to existing  fleet. On the other hand won't be another Iona, which when you work it out is even worse, 1.5sqm outside space per passenger,  great if you like playing sardines.

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4 hours ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

Yes, that's right, the new ship is a disappointment, it's a shame that Carnival is bringing its standards to Cunard ...

 I remember the same being said about QE. And QV. And QM2. And when Vistafjord was changed to Caronia. And very similar was said about QE2. It wouldn’t surprise me if the same sort of thing has been said about every new ship Cunard has introduced since 1840.

 

Having said all that, I don’t disagree with you.

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I also think that there is always a market for the product Cunard offers. I met so many couples in their 30´s on board of the three Cunarders- so it´s not just for " oldies"! A voyage on board any Cunarder and especially the QM2 is a nod to the Golden Age of Ocean Traveling!

17 hours ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

The QM2 is an icon, as people can embrace the atmosphere of 20th century luxury liners while having the comfort and amenities of the 21st century cruise ship. I believe that a second similar liner of the QM2 type could be a great success on the cruise market. What do you think?

I agree, I so agree!

I am a week home now from my second " Blue Voyage" on board MS1 ( the first was on MS2- in the end of July) - Tui Cruises- loved it- but missed, missed the flair of Cunard or Celebrity!

Yesterday I took my FCC and transfered it to the September Crossing on board QM2 out of New York to Southampton. Almost a year in adavance- hopefully it is a go then.

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Although I have no idea what the interiors will be like, the lack of a decent promenade deck on the new ship means it has little appeal to me.  

 

I have not been on Holland-America’s Koningsdam, but I know people who have and I have seen enough photos of the interior to know it isn’t for me. But there is no reason to believe that Cunard cannot have a pleasing interior. Two years after our first cruise on the Queen Elizabeth we had a cruise on a Holland-America Vista-class ship, the Noordam. Other than a similarity of the exterior profile and the basic interior layout, they have nothing in common. Other than the Neptune Lounge, the HAL ship had nothing that pleased me. Even the so-called atrium appeared to be a hole cut in the deck with a single curved staircase as opposed to the truly grand lobby of the Q.E.

 

It will be interesting to see what Cunard has in mind for the interior of the new ship, but it is highly unlikely anything can be done with a Koningsdam-type promenade deck.

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On 10/19/2020 at 1:26 PM, JP82 said:

 

But I would wait for her to be a little more revealed before making such sweeping statements? 

 

Frankly I was just grateful (pre-covid) that Cunard was getting a 4th ship full stop.

 

What are the known facts?

No Promenade Deck

Poor (in some Cunarders opinion) interior guest space ratio

Poor (in some Cunarders opinion) exterior guest space ratio

Based on known facts no interest is therefore declared, with statements made to support one's decision.

And Carnival has not yet published the complete set of the Carnivalisations aka "turn offs" 

Please enjoy the new Carnival ship.  It will not be Cunard.

 

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My "opinion" on interior and exterior deck space is based soley on numbers supplied by Cunard , gross tonnage, length, beam and numbers of passengers for the new ship

 

Interior space

The standard statistic of passenger space ratio, ie gross tonnage divided by number of passengers for the new ship is well below that of existing Cunard ships. 

 

The public exterior space open to sun is a simple calculation.  At most there can be only the equivalent of one deck of open space on top of the ship, àlthough this can be spread over two or more decks.

 

If you think about a ship sitting within a rectangle of length times width. Given that  ships are by design all very similiar shaped, the Percentage of this rectangle taken up by any ship will be very similiar.

 

Thus length times beam divided by numer her of passengers will be proportional to exterior top open deck space. The numbers (based on lenths in ft)

 

Existing Cunard ships index 54

New Cunard ship index 40

By comparison  Iona index 23 , Seabourn above 100

 

 

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3 hours ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

What are the known facts?

No Promenade Deck

Poor (in some Cunarders opinion) interior guest space ratio

Poor (in some Cunarders opinion) exterior guest space ratio

Based on known facts no interest is therefore declared, with statements made to support one's decision.

And Carnival has not yet published the complete set of the Carnivalisations aka "turn offs" 

Please enjoy the new Carnival ship.  It will not be Cunard.

 

 

Lovely.

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Sorry-we cannot be sure-the specs listed in the design web-site in another post  indicated a passenger promenade on Deck 3-so let’s just wait and  see how it shakes out. I remember Stephen Payne describing how they had to lengthen the ‘platform’  30 feet for QV and QM in order to have a Cunard Queen’s Room. Presumably, they know how folks feel about a proper Promenade Deck and that it’s very Cunard-so it seems reasonable to anticipate possible tweeks to the new ‘platform’. 🤔

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10 hours ago, canoncruiser said:

Sorry-we cannot be sure-the specs listed in the design web-site in another post  indicated a passenger promenade on Deck 3-so let’s just wait and  see how it shakes out. I remember Stephen Payne describing how they had to lengthen the ‘platform’  30 feet for QV and QM in order to have a Cunard Queen’s Room. Presumably, they know how folks feel about a proper Promenade Deck and that it’s very Cunard-so it seems reasonable to anticipate possible tweeks to the new ‘platform’. 🤔

Promenade Deck, and the tweeks to the internal and external space ratio?

Don't think the Carnival bean counters will increase the tonnage to facilitate all three tweeks.  Anyway, the proposed passenger numbers will not prove attractive.

 

 

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On 10/19/2020 at 6:14 AM, WorldTraveler151208 said:

It looks like the new ship for Cunard will be delayed until 2023. This is a sad news because I think that Cunard really needs something new in the fleet. I wonder why Cunard doesn't consider building another ocean liner.  They say that Queen Mary 2 will be the last ocean liner in history. And as far as I know there is (or at least before the pandemic there was) a huge interest in QM2 cruises, even though they are rather expensive.  No other ship ever draws such crowds of onlookers when it enters a port. The QM2 is an icon, as people can embrace the atmosphere of 20th century luxury liners while having the comfort and amenities of the 21st century cruise ship. I believe that a second similar liner of the QM2 type could be a great success on the cruise market. What do you think?

I doesn't surprise me that the QM2 would be the last "ocean liner".  You can have all the crowds looking on, but if that does not translate into "bodies in bunks", it doesn't really matter.  While the QM2 most likely sailed near capacity most times, I would doubt that there is "huge" interest, or Cunard would have the market research to prove it, and would consider having a second liner, or a replacement planned.  Most folks don't know the "atmosphere" of a 20th century luxury liner, and the QM2 does not have the amenities that a 21st century cruise ship needs, based on the demographics, and the lines' desire to attract younger demographic.

 

You also have a huge capital investment in power generating and propulsion equipment that is underutilized 90% of the time, so that is a waste of company capital.  Nostalgia is a great thing, but it is a niche market, and a ship like the QM2 is a huge investment for a niche market.  Smaller luxury line ships will fill the space.

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42 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I doesn't surprise me that the QM2 would be the last "ocean liner".  You can have all the crowds looking on, but if that does not translate into "bodies in bunks", it doesn't really matter.  While the QM2 most likely sailed near capacity most times, I would doubt that there is "huge" interest, or Cunard would have the market research to prove it, and would consider having a second liner, or a replacement planned.  Most folks don't know the "atmosphere" of a 20th century luxury liner, and the QM2 does not have the amenities that a 21st century cruise ship needs, based on the demographics, and the lines' desire to attract younger demographic.

You also have a huge capital investment in power generating and propulsion equipment that is underutilized 90% of the time, so that is a waste of company capital.  Nostalgia is a great thing, but it is a niche market, and a ship like the QM2 is a huge investment for a niche market.  Smaller luxury line ships will fill the space.

I can see your point of view and you are probably right about the problem of underutilization of the equipment. Nevertheless, I don't know what you mean with the 21st century amenities  that QM2 doesn't have. What do you think is missing there?

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13 minutes ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

I can see your point of view and you are probably right about the problem of underutilization of the equipment. Nevertheless, I don't know what you mean with the 21st century amenities  that QM2 doesn't have. What do you think is missing there?

It may not be my thing, but the target demographics want the "bells and whistles" that ships like the Carnival Mardi Gras, Norwegian Joy, and RCI Oasis have.  It may not fit the genteel ocean liner feel, but it is what puts bodies in bunks.

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11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It may not be my thing, but the target demographics want the "bells and whistles" that ships like the Carnival Mardi Gras, Norwegian Joy, and RCI Oasis have.  It may not fit the genteel ocean liner feel, but it is what puts bodies in bunks.

 

It would be very boring if all ships were the same, most people who enjoy sailing on Cunard ships would run a mile at the thought of any of the ships you've named.

I'm sure there are people who love that sort of thing & they may be someone's target demographic but I don't think they're Cunard's.

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1 minute ago, Host Hattie said:

 

It would be very boring if all ships were the same, most people who enjoy sailing on Cunard ships would run a mile at the thought of any of the ships you've named.

i don't know about the run part at our age .....i do feel that if cunard goes we will not cruise anymore 

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1 minute ago, Host Hattie said:

 

It would be very boring if all ships were the same, most people who enjoy sailing on Cunard ships would run a mile at the thought of any of the ships you've named.

I agree entirely and  always look at booking a roundtrip TA on QM2 before I even look at never mind entertain booking any other cruise. We should be on her now returning back to Southampton after a 28 nt USA/Canada trip and we also had our roundtrip TA in May cancelled also. Sorry but not everyone who cruises whatever their age want "bells and whistles" and climbing walls and theme parks on the top deck. We are all different and of the many TAs I have done with Cunard they always seem to be very popular either one way and people from UK staying in New York or other parts of US or likewise US citizens coming and staying in London/Paris or other parts of Europe. Also QM2 seems to have no problems in attracting people from all over the world to travel on her.

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