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COVID-19 Surging Across Europe


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1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

The current US population (as of 2019) is around 328M. Of that, 23M were born before the end of WWII, 72M are boomers, born before 1964, and 65M are Gen X born before 1980. Even if I assign ALL of Gen X to 1980, that's 160M born since 1980, I get (328-160)/328=.49. Since probably at least half of those 65M were born within that last 47 years, then those born within the last 47 years would exceed 50%; if it's as much as 1/2, it's 60%.

 

Which again, has nothing to do with COVID in Europe...

then why even bring it up on a COVID Surging Across Europe thread?

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6 hours ago, hcat said:

Can  everyone please  stop bashing Americans and the USA ?   Esp disheartening  to see Americans joining  the chorus!

 

It is off topic  here and many posts are not within guidelines.

 

I have twice tried to bring this thread back to the topic!!

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From today's reliable national media:

 

"A vaccine won't be available immediately for everybody," says Arthur Reingold, a professor of epidemiology at the School of Public Health at the University of California, Berkeley. He also chairs California's COVID-19 Scientific Safety Review Workgroup, which will evaluate the safety and efficacy of covid-19 vaccines.

 

“It probably will take four to six months,” he says. “What that says to me is that people will have to keep wearing masks at least until spring. We won’t be in a magically different situation by February or March. I don’t see how that can possibly happen.”

 

Equally important are the unknown about the vaccines themselves. Scientists still don’t know how long vaccine-induced protection will last, for example, or whether inoculations can block actual infection, or only prevent the onset of disease. If the latter turns out to be the case, meaning the vaccines keep us from getting sick, but not infected, we still could be infectious to others. Until we know, don’t toss those masks into the trash.

 

The current vaccines are not a panacea, either in Europe of the US.

 

The problem with discussing COVID-19, related vaccines and travel across the northern hemisphere is that everything is interrelated.  Non-essential travel between many countries and continents is restricted because of the virus.  The virus seems to faster than people, infecting many along its journey.  We cannot cruise because of this.  Anyone wanted to go on a trans-Atlantic this Spring?  We sure would like that.  Means flying one way, potentially going through quarantine, and embarking on a ship that may or mat not be safe, with or without a vaccine.  Just facts, not fiction.

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12 hours ago, hcat said:

Can  everyone please  stop bashing Americans and the USA ?   Esp disheartening  to see Americans joining  the chorus!

 

It is off topic  here and many posts are not within guidelines.

hcat- agreed.

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Italy is seeing a massive resurgence of COVID-19, worse than the Spring.  The difference, according to reports, is that most Italians are becoming desensitized to the spread and dangers of the virus and pre-occupied with economic survival.  The per capita death rate this month in Italy is twice that of the US; over 10,000 people have died in Italy this month alone.  Scary?  You bet.

 

In the countryside of Sicily, Calogero Bontempo, 73, contracted the virus and at first seemed mainly fatigued. But then he complained of blurred vision. And his breathing worsened. His pacemaker seemed to be having problems, too. A relative called the medics, a team arrived in body suits, and soon Bontempo was on his way to the closest coronavirus hospital — 90 minutes away.       He died just after being given a room.  (Italian media reporting)

 

Then there is the unbroken sound of ambulances, day and night.

 

Italy is a very social culture.  Hugs and kisses on greeting and leaving.  Another report of a family birthday party for a 14 year old.  Six of the eight attendees now have COVID-19.

 

This past Tuesday my wife's beautician called informing she and her husband tested positive.  Yesterday both were taken to the hospital by EMTs!

 

The infection rate in the US is approaching 200,000 per day and appears to be on an exponential curve upwards.  For a person from a background straddling both sides of the Atlantic this is not just scary, it's horrific.

 

And Canada has closed its borders with the US until 21 December...

Edited by Ride-The-Waves
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We can always just blame or fault the rise of Covid in Europe on its political leaders like half of Americans do here in America. Then just call an end to the thread. But unfortunately that won't be the end of Rona. 

 

Rona doesn't care about you, your thoughts, your social agenda, your religion, your income, your sex, and for the sake of this board & thread... your cruise. 

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23 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

We can always just blame or fault the rise of Covid in Europe on its political leaders like half of Americans do here in America. Then just call an end to the thread. But unfortunately that won't be the end of Rona. 

 

Rona doesn't care about you, your thoughts, your social agenda, your religion, your income, your sex, and for the sake of this board & thread... your cruise. 

Rona is ok , not sure what you are writing about

www.Rona.ca 

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20 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Rona doesn't care about you, your thoughts, your social agenda, your religion, your income, your sex, and for the sake of this board & thread... your cruise. 

 

Agree...but funny how we sort of anthropomorphize something that really doesn't even qualify as a living organism. 

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On 11/22/2020 at 6:28 AM, Ride-The-Waves said:

 

The current vaccines are not a panacea, either in Europe of the US.

 

 

why not?  It's really the only thing this might end.

 

I mean, it's already been a year of restrictions, and there's still no end in sight other than vaccines.  What's the big panic over having to wait another 4-5 months? There's only 2 ends to this.  vaccine that works or everyone gets it, maybe repeatedly, and it stays around forever.

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OT (not Europe surge), but interesting statement from Qantas CEO:

 

Qantas boss Alan Joyce has warned future international travel will require compulsory vaccinations.

 

The Qantas CEO told A Current Affair host Tracy Grimshaw once a vaccine becomes available, they will be changing terms and conditions for travel.

 

He said while they will have to see what they do for domestic travel, the vaccination will be required for international travel.

 

"For international travellers that we will ask people to have a vaccination before they get on the aircraft."

 

"Certainly, for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity."

 

And Mr Joyce said it won't only be something required in Australia, but around the world.

 

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/coronavirus-exclusive-the-compulsory-conditions-for-australians-to-travel-internationally-as-lockdowns-ease/e4bf2f6c-faab-46dd-8528-b7f8120ede2f?ocid=Social9News

 

 

Edited by SeaHunt
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Makes sense.  I can recall that WHO "Yellow Card" being more important than a passport for travel, even in Europe in the 1950s.  Border control officers always checked the "Yellow Card" first to determine if you have the required vaccinations to help control disease and virus transmission.  Still today for travel into various regions and countries: MMR, yellow fever, polio, etc at the top of the list.  Had to have a current Yellow Card for our safaris in Kenya and Tanzania.  Add COVID-19 to the list.

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5 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

why not?  It's really the only thing this might end.

 

I mean, it's already been a year of restrictions, and there's still no end in sight other than vaccines.  What's the big panic over having to wait another 4-5 months? There's only 2 ends to this.  vaccine that works or everyone gets it, maybe repeatedly, and it stays around forever.

In the US less than 60 percent claim they will take a COVID-19 prophylaxis, even if free (and it should be "free" and I have seen one proposal recommending people be paid to take the inoculation).  Epidemiologists have repeatedly stated that using PPE, social distancing, etc is the best way to end the pandemic - stop the transmission.  The acceptance rate in Europe may be higher.  In the US the epidemiologists say that at least 70 percent of the population must be immune to effect herd immunity, by either vaccination or recovery from the virus.  

 

The question for us is what level must be achieved to provide for safe cruising?  Is 70 percent of all passengers and crew a viable ratio?  Does it need to be 100 percent?  How does a cruise line insure a certain percentage of all this on board are affected?  Yellow Card?  Who is responsible - the passenger/crew of the cruise line?

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1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

In the US less than 60 percent claim they will take a COVID-19 prophylaxis, even if free (and it should be "free" and I have seen one proposal recommending people be paid to take the inoculation).  Epidemiologists have repeatedly stated that using PPE, social distancing, etc is the best way to end the pandemic - stop the transmission.  The acceptance rate in Europe may be higher.  In the US the epidemiologists say that at least 70 percent of the population must be immune to effect herd immunity, by either vaccination or recovery from the virus.  

 

The question for us is what level must be achieved to provide for safe cruising?  Is 70 percent of all passengers and crew a viable ratio?  Does it need to be 100 percent?  How does a cruise line insure a certain percentage of all this on board are affected?  Yellow Card?  Who is responsible - the passenger/crew of the cruise line?

 

at 95% efficacy, 60% of the population may be good enough for a sort-of-almost herd immunity, especially for the summer months, especially since it's going to turn out like at least 10% of the population is going to end up infected.  It may flare up here and there again among unvaccinated, but it might be enough to put the big pandemic effects in the rear view mirror.

 

Pretty sure they are going to eventually require vaccination or dr's note saying why vaccination is not possible in order to cruise.  Probably unless covid completely disappears from face of the planet or becomes super rare in the developed world and most people are immunized, like measles.

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11 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

at 95% efficacy, 60% of the population may be good enough for a sort-of-almost herd immunity, especially for the summer months, especially since it's going to turn out like at least 10% of the population is going to end up infected.  It may flare up here and there again among unvaccinated, but it might be enough to put the big pandemic effects in the rear view mirror.

 

Pretty sure they are going to eventually require vaccination or dr's note saying why vaccination is not possible in order to cruise.  Probably unless covid completely disappears from face of the planet or becomes super rare in the developed world and most people are immunized, like measles.

Medical community currently saying it requires 75 percent to effectively gain "herd" immunity.

 

Its likely that economies themselves will govern the ultimate level of compliance.  No vaccination against COVID-19 = no work.  Companies will not tolerate the liability from not having a fully immunized workforce.  Cruise ships will require 100 compliance by both crews and passengers.

 

US epidemiologist Dr Fauci yesterday stated he will get the vaccine after it's approved by the US FDA.

Edited by Ride-The-Waves
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