cruisenewbie1976 Posted November 17, 2020 #226 Share Posted November 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, wowzz said: Plus, of course, the efficacy of any of the vaccines is, as yet, not fully known, but appears to be around 6 months, although, depending on the Individual it could be as low as 4 months. Anyone thinking of a RTW cruise would need to be immunised immediately before sailing. (Mind you, I can't see any long cruises of over 2 weeks, let alone RTWs starting anytime soon) I think you're referring only to antibodies, which wane after 6 months. That's not the only bit of the immune system that helps fight covid though. If it were the case, there'd be many more reinfections happening right now. We're maybe best waiting for the scientists to give us the facts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 17, 2020 #227 Share Posted November 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, AnnieC said: The return flight doesn't seem to have been handled brilliantly, either: https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg®ion=2&m_id=s~bd_rvd&w_id=38267&news_id=2045093 I don’t like flying at the best of times, but nothing would get me on a flight right now 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #228 Share Posted November 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: Where has anybody actually said that a vaccine won’t work? Are you serious?🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #229 Share Posted November 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: Where has anybody actually said that a vaccine won’t work? 6 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said: I think you're referring only to antibodies, which wane after 6 months. That's not the only bit of the immune system that helps fight covid though. If it were the case, there'd be many more reinfections happening right now. We're maybe best waiting for the scientists to give us the facts. You are quite right, but until the facts are available, we could all make some up🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peterson Posted November 17, 2020 #230 Share Posted November 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, zap99 said: Funny old world. Upto quite recently many,many on here were saying how they won't cruise again until til there is a vaccine. Now they are telling us all how a vaccine won't work. I deduce many are just so pessimisti rhat after all this is gone , they will start some other nonsense . Do try, Zap, not to look so hard for anything you might like to call pessimism or negativity. It’s a very negative trait in itself. There are plenty of people in this forum trying to cope with a very difficult situation, which is preventing them not just from cruising but normal life, and they’re all trying to sort out the facts from the fiction to work out a sensible game plan. Just assimilating and understanding facts, working out the risks, whether they’re real or not, how great they are etc. Just seems plain common sense and logic to me. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #231 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said: Do try, Zap, not to look so hard for anything you might like to call pessimism or negativity. It’s a very negative trait in itself. There are plenty of people in this forum trying to cope with a very difficult situation, which is preventing them not just from cruising but normal life, and they’re all trying to sort out the facts from the fiction to work out a sensible game plan. Just assimilating and understanding facts, working out the risks, whether they’re real or not, how great they are etc. Just seems plain common sense and logic to me. Not everything. I just don't understand why folk don't just listen to the experts, without trying to become a poor imitation themselves. Don't you get tired of all the non experts on here?. Cruise critic is the clue. Edited November 17, 2020 by zap99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisenewbie1976 Posted November 17, 2020 #232 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said: Do try, Zap, not to look so hard for anything you might like to call pessimism or negativity. It’s a very negative trait in itself. There are plenty of people in this forum trying to cope with a very difficult situation, which is preventing them not just from cruising but normal life, and they’re all trying to sort out the facts from the fiction to work out a sensible game plan. Just assimilating and understanding facts, working out the risks, whether they’re real or not, how great they are etc. Just seems plain common sense and logic to me. To be honest, this forum is probably the worst place to come if you're struggling to deal with the covid situation. First we had people telling us that it was likely that no vaccine had ever been found for coronaviruses and we'd be unlikely to get one. Then when vaccines were looking promising, we were told that it would take months, if not years to get rolled out and our lives would be affected for a long time. Now that the world is preparing for a mass roll out, we're told that the vaccine will only protect us for 6 months, which is something I've not seen any credible expert mention! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #233 Share Posted November 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: I don’t like flying at the best of times, but nothing would get me on a flight right now How many cases reported on planes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 17, 2020 #234 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, zap99 said: How many cases reported on planes? How would I know? Look it up yourself if you want to know. I’m not interested, as I don’t like flying and didn’t have any intention of ever getting on a plane again before the pandemic. I’m certainly not going to restart flying in the middle of a pandemic 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 17, 2020 #235 Share Posted November 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said: Do try, Zap, not to look so hard for anything you might like to call pessimism or negativity. It’s a very negative trait in itself. There are plenty of people in this forum trying to cope with a very difficult situation, which is preventing them not just from cruising but normal life, and they’re all trying to sort out the facts from the fiction to work out a sensible game plan. Just assimilating and understanding facts, working out the risks, whether they’re real or not, how great they are etc. Just seems plain common sense and logic to me. Well said Harry. to put it mildly, it’s quite disconcerting to know that, if you say something that certain people don’t like, there’ll be a chorus of jibes from the sidelines. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted November 17, 2020 #236 Share Posted November 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, zap99 said: How many cases reported on planes? 5 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: How would I know? Look it up yourself if you want to know. From memory, less than 100 worldwide. Probably one of the safest environments around at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adawn47 Posted November 17, 2020 #237 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said: We’ll probably never know the full extent of the outbreak as the Barbadian authorities wanted the passengers off the island, allowing them to fly out of the country on commercial flights with no further quarantine According to reports yesterday by Cruise with Ben&David, ''they were crammed onto airport trams in Barbados like sardines'' many didn't wear masks on the flight either or wore them under their chins. It must have been the yearly outing of the 'Can't Happen To Me Brigade' 😁 Avril 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 17, 2020 #238 Share Posted November 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, wowzz said: From memory, less than 100 worldwide. Probably one of the safest environments around at the moment. As my dislike of flying is nothing to do with Covid, I’m still not going to randomly start flying again! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted November 17, 2020 #239 Share Posted November 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said: vaccine will only protect us for 6 months, which is something I've not seen any credible expert mention! The current flu vaccine only protects us for 6 months. At present there is no evidence that the CV19 vaccine will be any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #240 Share Posted November 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: Well said Harry. to put it mildly, it’s quite disconcerting to know that, if you say something that certain people don’t like, there’ll be a chorus of jibes from the sidelines. No, I suppose I should be less happy. I must stop disagreeing with things I don't agree with. Oh well, back to the sidelines for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted November 17, 2020 #241 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said: As my dislike of flying is nothing to do with Covid, I’m still not going to randomly start flying again! Understood. What is clear however, is that you are safer flying to your cruise, than being on the cruise itself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted November 17, 2020 #242 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, wowzz said: Understood. What is clear however, is that you are safer flying to your cruise, than being on the cruise itself! As I said to one of our truck drivers. You shouldn't worry about flying. Now crashing is worth worrying about🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisenewbie1976 Posted November 17, 2020 #243 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, wowzz said: The current flu vaccine only protects us for 6 months. At present there is no evidence that the CV19 vaccine will be any different. There's actually plenty of evidence to suggest that the covid vaccine will be different. You might want to read about T Cell responses. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecttr Posted November 17, 2020 #244 Share Posted November 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, zap99 said: How many cases reported on planes? A better question would be how many infections are caught on planes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tring Posted November 17, 2020 #245 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Josy1953 said: Thanks Pete, when I asked they just said that I could leave the trial at anytime ( which I knew before I signed up ) but the doctor who I asked if we would be to!d whether we had had the vaccine or the placebo if a vaccine found to be safe enough to be rolled out to the public and she said that it was a blind trial and she was unsure whether we could be unblinded. It will be a double blind trial as usual, so staff running the trial would not know themselves, so could not be involved in any unblinding. That is presumably why Pete said it is the the head office who are allowed to unblind you and they must have that possibility if anyone has what could be a bad reaction to the trial drug. Being allowed, would not, as I read it, mean they would oblige, though they may well do so as this is quite different to normal trials. As many people want a vaccine as soon as safety and efficacy is known there will be lots of data from people who have had the vaccines to assess how long it is effective for and if any transmission is still taking place etc which would normally be part of the initial trial, but is understandably still outstanding. Edited November 17, 2020 by tring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted November 17, 2020 #246 Share Posted November 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, davecttr said: A better question would be how many infections are caught on planes Planes have always been a source of infection but are probably safer than ever now that people have to wear face coverings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermotsgirl Posted November 17, 2020 #247 Share Posted November 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, zap99 said: No, I suppose I should be less happy. I must stop disagreeing with things I don't agree with. Oh well, back to the sidelines for me. I’ll be honest with you, a lot of your posts over the last few months have made me feel as if I would prefer to sit on the sidelines, and not say what I think about the current situation. However, I’ve largely ignored what you have said, so you have continued making your comments unabated, which makes me feel even more uncomfortable. Now, you are finally getting some push back from the comments you have made and it looks like you are not enjoying this. I suspect you’d have liked it even less if I had continually carped from the sidelines. What I am trying to say is, opinions are fine, and and all are welcome to give our opinions and agree, disagree or discuss. But, the problems arise when it’s made personal, this includes labelling of people and general digs about groups of people who do not share one’s own opinion. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted November 17, 2020 #248 Share Posted November 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said: There's actually plenty of evidence to suggest that the covid vaccine will be different. You might want to read about T Cell responses. Indeed I have. This quote was of interest from Oxford university. Let's hope they are correct, and that I am being unduly cautious. Emerging studies suggest that all or a majority of people with COVID-19 develop a strong and broad T cell response, both CD4 and CD8, and some have a memory phenotype, which bodes well for potential longer-term immunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted November 17, 2020 #249 Share Posted November 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, davecttr said: A better question would be how many infections are caught on planes What exactly do you mean by " infection"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete14 Posted November 17, 2020 #250 Share Posted November 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, tring said: It will be a double blind trial as usual, so staff running the trial would not know themselves, so could not be involved in any unblinding. That is presumably why Pete said it is the the head office who are allowed to unblind you and they must have that possibility if anyone has what could be a bad reaction to the trial drug. Being allowed, would not, as I read it, mean they would oblige, though they may well do so as this is quite different to normal trials. As many people want a vaccine as soon as safety and efficacy is known, but there will be lots of data from people who have had the vaccines to assess how long it is effective for and if any transmission is still taking place etc which would normally be part of the initial trial, but is apparently still outstanding. You are correct in your assumption about head office. I was also told that there are 2 people in each trial centre who know who has the vaccine and who has the placebo. These are the people who make each person’s injection available to the medic who gives you the injection. They obviously need to know what to give each person but nobody else does. If they broke the confidentiality to anybody, the efficacy of the trial would be called into question and it could be completely invalidated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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