Cruises looking good to restart by Dec (florida)

[farmersfight]

3 minutes ago, EllieinNJ said:

But I saw a really great price on a Princess 14 day cruise in November 2021 so I booked it with two fcds I had.  Now I'm wondering if this will even go because they stated only 7 day cruises.

 

Hopefully, it will be a whole different ballgame by Nov 2021 because there will be a safe & effective vaccine. Being that your Princess 14 day cruise is not until late in 2021, imo there's a good chance that it will go. Fingers crossed 🤞.

[macandlucy]

13 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

My initial reaction was the same- great news!! 

 

After a skim Of the Conditions to return, I thought “good news”

 

After reading the entire 40 page document (twice) I’m very sad. The requirements the cdc have laid out seem nearly impossible to meet- or keep.

 

I’m sad. I think these condition make cruising less likely to resume quickly w/any sense of normality. 

 

i sure would like to read the “technical” document that is referenced multiple times.

 

Hopefully I’m wrong 

I understand, the list is long and the requirements are stringent, but I believe the cruise lines are motivated to get sailing again, so I think they will do everything they can to make that happen.  I think cruising will look different for a while, but not forever. (I also think that once individuals realize that their own actions and behaviors put much of the control in their hands, the very high fear level will come down. )

 

The part I see as undeniably good news is the lifting of the official ban.  That's the first good news we've had in a while, and the first sign of progress. I do understand that the long list of seemingly impossible to meet requirements can seem like it's effectively a continued ban, but the effect of lifting the ban really can't be underestimated, imo -- it's now at least a theoretical possibility, where it was not a couple of days ago.  I'll take what I can get! ;)

[macandlucy]

8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The Level 3 warning was issued in March. Been around for a while with a few tweaks for currency. 

 

Yes, you are right. The level wasn't raised, it was re-issued. Thanks for the edit  

 

My poor choice of words aside, the point was really just to say that the CDC, despite lifting the official ban, is still not keen on cruise travel, and they don't think you should do it, even if it's not officially banned.  So they re-issued, highlighted, brought to your attention, this message. From their website, it's: Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel—Widespread Ongoing Transmission.

 

How they determine that "widespread ongoing transmission" is occurring right now, is a head scratcher to me. But it sure sounds scary, so maybe that's the point. Shrug.

 

 

[zqvol]

17 hours ago, seaman11 said:

I see the doom and gloom crowd is upset,   this is good news whether some like it or not, or are not ready to cruise.   

 

Do you really think they want to keep losing millions sitting around when the cdc said they can slowly start ?  the Florida cruise port gave the ok . 

they have investors and stock holders to answer to. 

 

They have already called some crew back last week.   

 

Please read the latest order. Good luck to any cruise company that can comply with it. IMO it is going to be a very hard thing to do.

[hamrag]

24 minutes ago, zqvol said:

Please read the latest order. Good luck to any cruise company that can comply with it. IMO it is going to be a very hard thing to do.

 

Perhaps it's the CDCs way of calling the cruise lines bluff!

[beerman2]

On 10/29/2020 at 5:32 PM, seaman11 said:

yes im not saying its going to happen on a certain date ,  im referring to the lines getting crew ready, as i said it will not take 6 weeks after the go ahead as some had suggested before. 

Being the CDC had said the cruise lines must submit application To sail 60 days before transporting paying pax it will take longer than 6 weeks now.

 

Best case Jan 2021 to actually have an “official” sailing IF they have filled the application today!

 

It’s been said before some hurdles are still there getting crew back is a baby step.

[seaman11]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Being the CDC had said the cruise lines must submit application To sail 60 days before transporting paying pax it will take longer than 6 weeks now.

 

Best case Jan 2021 to actually have an “official” sailing IF they have filled the application today!

 

It’s been said before some hurdles are still there getting crew back is a baby step.

Well thats different , because they have to wait, not because they cant get crew ready sooner than  6 weeks.  

 

plus i was reading the language and in small print at the bottom of page 28,  it does not say "must"  it says "should"  so lets see what that means, even so its fine. 

 

its going to take time, but at least there is a clear path to start up,(unlike your pal cheng had said , that there is no change)  many thought the cdc would just extend the no sail through dec. 

[seaman11]

2 hours ago, zqvol said:

Please read the latest order. Good luck to any cruise company that can comply with it. IMO it is going to be a very hard thing to do.

They will do it if they want to stay in business , that is the bottom line, they have shareholders and investors to answer to,  if they cant comply with this order.   

 

I have no doubt they will do it because its only going to be for a ship or 2 at first.  

Edited October 31, 2020 by seaman11

[zqvol]

40 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

They will do it if they want to stay in business , that is the bottom line, they have shareholders and investors to answer to,  if they cant comply with this order.   

 

I have no doubt they will do it because its only going to be for a ship or 2 at first.  

They won't do it because it is out of their control. The CDC will decide if they are doing it and until the CDC thinks it is safe no line is going to be able to meet the requirements.

[beerman2]

50 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Well thats different , because they have to wait, not because they cant get crew ready sooner than  6 weeks.  

 

plus i was reading the language and in small print at the bottom of page 28,  it does not say "must"  it says "should"  so lets see what that means, even so its fine. 

 

its going to take time, but at least there is a clear path to start up,(unlike your pal cheng had said , that there is no change)  many thought the cdc would just extend the no sail through dec. 

chengkp75 has provided much more informed statements than you give him credit for.

 

 

[broberts]

13 minutes ago, zqvol said:

They won't do it because it is out of their control. The CDC will decide if they are doing it and until the CDC thinks it is safe no line is going to be able to meet the requirements.

 

This does not make any sense. 

[seaman11]

59 minutes ago, zqvol said:

They won't do it because it is out of their control. The CDC will decide if they are doing it and until the CDC thinks it is safe no line is going to be able to meet the requirements.

What do you mean they wont do it?  the guidelines are set by the CDC on how to restart. I realize many are pessimistic here , but that doesnt mean the cruise lines cant follow these guidelines and get back to cruising eventually.  Remember casinos are open and and theaters , they did not wait for covid numbers to hit zero. 

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, seaman11 said:

What do you mean they wont do it?  the guidelines are set by the CDC on how to restart. I realize many are pessimistic here , but that doesnt mean the cruise lines cant follow these guidelines and get back to cruising eventually.  Remember casinos are open and and theaters , they did not wait for covid numbers to hit zero. 

Comparing Casinos and Theaters isn’t a fair comparison.

Those are land based so people can get immediate treatment (Hospitalization) if necessary.

 

Pax on cruises ( if they require hospitalization) will have to be airlifted .

Timing is everything.

[bmwman]

1 hour ago, seaman11 said:

What do you mean they wont do it?  the guidelines are set by the CDC on how to restart. I realize many are pessimistic here , but that doesnt mean the cruise lines cant follow these guidelines and get back to cruising eventually.  Remember casinos are open and and theaters , they did not wait for covid numbers to hit zero. 

Whatever you say the pessimistic have been right all along and there will be no meaningful cruises before 2021. You have as ever taken publicity as news.

 

UK now has a total travel ban in and out and all European cruises have now stopped - it was an abject failure read the press -no one wants them - I can tell you it will be at least 6 months before any cruise ship comes to the UK and even then there will be no transfers. The British public are at breaking point and will  we will tolerate mass transit to the ships and tourists when we can not even travel. In fact you would need to quarantine for two weeks just getting off the ship to visit.

 

So i love your glass half full attitude but really you need to realise that reality is 2021. I know two HD on NCL and another line and they are not expecting to be working again until Feb 2021. Cruise lines are in deep trouble I accept and I still maintain that NCL will only ever build one Leonardo class as they have used the credit lines meant for the next 4 ships to fund this year and can not afford to take more and more debt.

Edited October 31, 2020 by bmwman

[seaman11]

2 minutes ago, bmwman said:

Whatever you say the pessimistic have been right all along and there will be no meaningful cruises before 2021. You have as ever taken publicity as news.

 

UK now has a total travel ban in and out and all European cruises have now stopped - it was an abject failure read the press -no one wants them - I can tell you it will be at least 6 months before any cruise ship comes to the UK and even then there will be no transfers. The British public are at breaking point and will  we will tolerate mass transit to the ships and tourists when we can not even travel. In fact you would need to quarantine for two weeks just getting off the ship to visit.

 

So i love your glass half full attitude but really you need to realise that reality is 2021. I know two HD on NCL and another line and they are not expecting to be working again until Feb 2021. Cruise lines are in deep trouble I accept and I still maintain that NCL will only ever build one Leonardo class as they have used the credit lines meant for the next 4 ships to fund this year and can not afford to take more and more debt.

It may not happen till 2021, that is  just around the corner. so its not like its so far away.  

 

I cant understand why it isnt good news? Before there was no sight to how or when the cruise lines can start back up in the US. Now there is a path to that.    

 

This is what we have been waiting for, for the CDC to lay out exactly what it will take to get back.

[seaman11]

25 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Comparing Casinos and Theaters isn’t a fair comparison.

Those are land based so people can get immediate treatment (Hospitalization) if necessary.

 

Pax on cruises ( if they require hospitalization) will have to be airlifted .

Timing is everything.

That is true,  But now its laid out what is required by the CDC in case an outbreak happens. 

 

So now its on the cruise lines to get this done, or sink in more debt.  

[bmwman]

1 minute ago, seaman11 said:

It may not happen till 2021, that is  just around the corner. so its not like its so far away.  

 

I cant understand why it isnt good news? Before there was no sight to how or when the cruise lines can start back up in the US. Now there is a path to that.    

 

This is what we have been waiting for, for the CDC to lay out exactly what it will take to get back.

I do not disagree it is better news but the lines need places to go and CDC or not they are still miles off!

 

and as for 2021 of course it is now round the corner - you laughed at people who said that when you had your July and august 2020 cruises booked. You never believed it would be 2021 and now you say "its just around the corner"

 

Just for once admit you have had it all wrong this year and that pessimists were not  they were realists 

[seaman11]

1 minute ago, bmwman said:

I do not disagree it is better news but the lines need places to go and CDC or not they are still miles off!

 

and as for 2021 of course it is now round the corner - you laughed at people who said that when you had your July and august 2020 cruises booked. You never believed it would be 2021 and now you say "its just around the corner"

 

Just for once admit you have had it all wrong this year and that pessimists were not  they were realists 

That was when places like florida and texas had 200 cases per day,and i was wrong. But  i did not claim , all year it was going to happen. , once the numbers in the south exploded. i did not think of ppl not following protocol and making it so political.  I even got my money back from ncl months ago.   

 

This new conditional sale order is great news, because there was no telling when it could restart before. 

[seaman11]

7 hours ago, macandlucy said:

I understand, the list is long and the requirements are stringent, but I believe the cruise lines are motivated to get sailing again, so I think they will do everything they can to make that happen.  I think cruising will look different for a while, but not forever. (I also think that once individuals realize that their own actions and behaviors put much of the control in their hands, the very high fear level will come down. )

 

The part I see as undeniably good news is the lifting of the official ban.  That's the first good news we've had in a while, and the first sign of progress. I do understand that the long list of seemingly impossible to meet requirements can seem like it's effectively a continued ban, but the effect of lifting the ban really can't be underestimated, imo -- it's now at least a theoretical possibility, where it was not a couple of days ago.  I'll take what I can get! 😉

Well said.  the lines have nothing else to do but work on what they need to do (in the us) to get started up again. Many are saying they wont do it or cant.  I dont see them giving up so easy. 

[macandlucy]

We now know much more about covid now than we did in March. It's less deadly than it was in March and April because we have treatments, and also because we know so much more about it.

 

People need to update their fear of this virus based on this new knowledge.  

 

And my advice is be wary of any official who tells you to "wear a mask" without providing any guidance about what kind of mask you should be wearing. THere's a huge variation in mask efficacy based on size, fit, materials and construction.

 

Wear an effective mask if you want to have any hope of filtering at least some aerosols.  

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by macandlucy

[Oxo]

34 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

We now know much more about covid now than we did in March. It's less deadly than it was in March and April because we have treatments, and also because we know so much more about it.

 

People need to update their fear of this virus based on this new knowledge.  

 

And my advice is be wary of any official who tells you to "wear a mask" without providing any guidance about what kind of mask you should be wearing. THere's a huge variation in mask efficacy based on size, fit, materials and construction.

 

Wear an effective mask if you want to have any hope of filtering at least some aerosols.  

 

 

 

Thanks for your advice. Is there an effective mask/source to buy an effective mask?

[macandlucy]

50 minutes ago, Oxo said:

Thanks for your advice. Is there an effective mask/source to buy an effective mask?

I spent lots of time learning about masks back in March when they were really hard to find, so I made mine. I'm not much of a seamstress, and have an old, cheap, crummy machine, but even with that and barely any sewing skills I was able to make lots.  You could probably even hand sew a few.   There lots of info on the internet, from YouTube tutorials on construction and fitting to journal articles that look at the filtration abilities of fabrics to help you pick the best. There are many different styles and patterns now, so lots to choose from.( I am partial to a mask that covers the whole bottom half of your face, ear to ear, just under the eyes to under the chin, with a sturdy nose pincher. )

 

If you can find medical N95 masks to buy, those would be good, but I don't know where to find them and speaking for myself, would only buy masks made in the the US or Canada.

 

Some N95s are made for industrial use, and may have exhalation valves. Masks with valves are not recommended for Covid because they can allow for virus to escape via the valve if the wearer is infected. (How you're going to get infected if you're faithfully wearing an N95 is a question for another day ;)

 

Surgical masks, like I see some people wear (and are much easier to find in stores) are iffy. If they are well fitting, better, but falling off your face, and/or gaping = not great. Depending on where I am going I will sometimes wear a surgical mask under my good homemade cloth mask for added protection.   

If you are going to try the sewing your own route, here's the journal article on fabrics.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

 

The youtubes should be easy to find on mask making, patterns, fitting, best fabrics, etc.

 

Hope that is helpful :)

 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by macandlucy

[Oxo]

2 hours ago, macandlucy said:

I spent lots of time learning about masks back in March when they were really hard to find, so I made mine. I'm not much of a seamstress, and have an old, cheap, crummy machine, but even with that and barely any sewing skills I was able to make lots.  You could probably even hand sew a few.   There lots of info on the internet, from YouTube tutorials on construction and fitting to journal articles that look at the filtration abilities of fabrics to help you pick the best. There are many different styles and patterns now, so lots to choose from.( I am partial to a mask that covers the whole bottom half of your face, ear to ear, just under the eyes to under the chin, with a sturdy nose pincher. )

 

If you can find medical N95 masks to buy, those would be good, but I don't know where to find them and speaking for myself, would only buy masks made in the the US or Canada.

 

Some N95s are made for industrial use, and may have exhalation valves. Masks with valves are not recommended for Covid because they can allow for virus to escape via the valve if the wearer is infected. (How you're going to get infected if you're faithfully wearing an N95 is a question for another day 😉

 

Surgical masks, like I see some people wear (and are much easier to find in stores) are iffy. If they are well fitting, better, but falling off your face, and/or gaping = not great. Depending on where I am going I will sometimes wear a surgical mask under my good homemade cloth mask for added protection.   

If you are going to try the sewing your own route, here's the journal article on fabrics.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

 

The youtubes should be easy to find on mask making, patterns, fitting, best fabrics, etc.

 

Hope that is helpful 🙂

 

 

Thank you! Will look around. Stay Safe!

[IrieBajan54]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:17 AM, jezabel80 said:

Where did you ever see everyone on a ship "follow proper hygiene'"?  Have you've ever used the public bathrooms on a cruise  and see people coming out of the stalls and walk right out the door without washing their hands?    Plus a host of other things.   Some people will never follow proper hygiene.  No matter how careful you are,  there will always be someone  who could care less.

.

I have seen it on ships and at my gym. Some people just have poor hygiene habits. It is no different than health officials advising people to wear a mask. Some will comply and others no way.

[EllieinNJ]

I work in the ICU of a hospital.  We have to be tested to see if we can tolerate the N95 masks.  Not everyone can.