CDC

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

sorry but I’ll stay with the facts as I know them

So, you're saying that this is just politics, and the requirements don't do enough to protect the US population?

[Luckiestmanonearth]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

So, you're saying that this is just politics, and the requirements don't do enough to protect the US population?

Very astute

[chengkp75]

35 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

Personally, I'd be happy to fly to The Bahamas to start my cruise, thus avoiding the CDC 'conditional requirements'. 

By the way, in the documents they state that these conditions can be made permanent without further requests for information from the public or governmental entities.

 

Perhaps the cruise lines should be/could be looking into this scenario - not beginning cruises out of US ports.

Changes the major demographic of US cruise passengers (passports now required, international flights, no driving to ports), plus the required investment in new infrastructure.  And, no port calls in the US.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

Very astute

So, point out to me where there is a major difference between the requirements of the no sail order and the conditional sail certificate.  Obtaining this certificate is not going to be a free ride, or easy for the lines to do.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, point out to me where there is a major difference between the requirements of the no sail order and the conditional sail certificate.  Obtaining this certificate is not going to be a free ride, or easy for the lines to do.

when the no sail order was lifted, victory was proclaimed .  The rest is just a smoke screen

[GeorgesGal]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Changes the major demographic of US cruise passengers (passports now required, international flights, no driving to ports), plus the required investment in new infrastructure.  And, no port calls in the US.

Have passport, no problem.  And I do think that the majority of cruisers have one also.

Not driving to port.

New infrastructure - anyone cruising from Lima, Peru or Buenos Aires, Argentina can attest that not much infrastructure is really needed - nice to have, but not a requirement in some ports.

No port calls in US - he purpose of a foreign departure port is to avoid US ports.

 

I'm still game.

Donna

[GeorgesGal]

1 minute ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

when the no sail order was lifted, victory was proclaimed .  The rest is just a smoke screen

It was a short-term victory, however, with the condition for sailing adopted immediately thereafter.

[tert333]

50 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

Personally, I'd be happy to fly to The Bahamas to start my cruise, thus avoiding the CDC 'conditional requirements'. 

By the way, in the documents they state that these conditions can be made permanent without further requests for information from the public or governmental entities.

 

Perhaps the cruise lines should be/could be looking into this scenario - not beginning cruises out of US ports.

I agree with you.  I would be happy to fly to Bahamas for the next year to catch a cruise.  They could, as a minimum,  base a ship or two there, so they can do 10 day southern caribbean cruises and avoid all US ports, so they would not be under the CDC regulations.  Lets see what the cruiselines come out with.  

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, tert333 said:

I agree with you.  I would be happy to fly to Bahamas for the next year to catch a cruise.  They could, as a minimum,  base a ship or two there, so they can do 10 day southern caribbean cruises and avoid all US ports, so they would not be under the CDC regulations.  Lets see what the cruiselines come out with.  

 

Well, for now, the Bahamas are not accepting cruise ships.  And, who is to say that all of these requirements are going to go away in a year?  They make the statement that any or all of them can become permanent federal regulations without comment or delay at any time, and I suspect the most onerous requirements (the shoreside health, transportation, and quarantine requirements) will definitely become permanent.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

sorry but I’ll stay with the facts as I know them

Just as at one time people knew the sun revolved around the earth and that disease was caused by an imbalance of fluids within the body that could be cured by bleeding.

[nocl]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, for now, the Bahamas are not accepting cruise ships.  And, who is to say that all of these requirements are going to go away in a year?  They make the statement that any or all of them can become permanent federal regulations without comment or delay at any time, and I suspect the most onerous requirements (the shoreside health, transportation, and quarantine requirements) will definitely become permanent.

For those that think the CDC is too strict.  Just how many places are allowing home port cruise departures of any length.  How many that do allow some cruises allow any longer than 7 days.  Not many if any.  Australia No, Canada No, South American Countries No.  

 

I do believe that Aida just announce canceling their cruises for the next month as Germany tightens their restrictions.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, GeorgesGal said:

Have passport, no problem.  And I do think that the majority of cruisers have one also.

 

 

Recent info is hard to come by, but about a decade ago it was reported that about 60% of US travelers on short Caribbean cruises DID NOT have passports. That number may be somewhat higher now, but perhaps still not much more than 50-50.

[jg51]

6 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

[In reply to us ...]

 

... While your proposed steps seem reasonable it adds additional process and cost presumably to Celebrity assuming they can fill the available berths with non B2B customers.    Or maybe they remove the B2B discount and add a B2B upcharge to cover the additional onboard testing. ...

 

Oh well I'm just in a bad mood for having done L&S on 3 cruises last night.   On a happy note I submitted the request at 4:30 on Friday afternoon and all 3 had been processed by 8 pm.

.

Best of luck (in the long run) on your L&S'd cruises, "wrk2cruise."  In reply to what you stated, above:

 

We have done many B2Bs, over the years.  The average number of consecutive cruisers has been about 25 -- in other words, just 1% of all people aboard the first cruise.  So few would not be a significant burden for the cruise line.  We don't think that there would be any need for a "remov[al of] the B2B discount and add[ition of] a B2B upcharge."  [One time, we were the ONLY B2B guests!]

.

[phoenix_dream]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

So, point out to me where there is a major difference between the requirements of the no sail order and the conditional sail certificate.  Obtaining this certificate is not going to be a free ride, or easy for the lines to do.

No it is not going to be easy at all - we agree on that.  But you asked what the major difference is.  The major difference is that the no sail order is just that - no one sails.  The conditional sail certificate is indeed difficult to obtain but not impossible.  Sailing with the no sail order out of the US was impossible.

[phoenix_dream]

On 10/30/2020 at 2:06 PM, LGW59 said:

I have a B2B, May 1-15, then May 15-27, same ship, same suite etc, based on this my guess is will not be allowed.  Lot can change by then I know and surely just speculation on my part.

To my knowledge there is nothing in the CDC order that addresses B2B.  And they are technically considered separate cruises, which is why in the US you need to disembark and then get approved to get back onboard.  So realistically they would have no basis to deny B2B's - to do so would be in direct conflict with their position that they are separate cruises.  That said, it is possible Celebrity could put that type of rule in place but I seriously doubt it, especially by May.  

[tert333]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, for now, the Bahamas are not accepting cruise ships.  And, who is to say that all of these requirements are going to go away in a year?  They make the statement that any or all of them can become permanent federal regulations without comment or delay at any time, and I suspect the most onerous requirements (the shoreside health, transportation, and quarantine requirements) will definitely become permanent.

Well, neither is the US.   Hopefully, they will open up the Bahamas soon.  They are in Phase 3(Opened Oct 15) and hoping to move to Phase 4  before the end of the year.   

 

If they make the rules permanent, that will be even more reason to have another base outside of the US to do 10 day caribbean cruises.   There will be many people, who given the choice of 7 days from Miami, or 10-14 days based out of some non-US port would chose the latter.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

To my knowledge there is nothing in the CDC order that addresses B2B.  And they are technically considered separate cruises, which is why in the US you need to disembark and then get approved to get back onboard.  So realistically they would have no basis to deny B2B's - to do so would be in direct conflict with their position that they are separate cruises.  That said, it is possible Celebrity could put that type of rule in place but I seriously doubt it, especially by May.  

Thank you!!  The first leg, TA from FL to Barcelona, would he same disembark rule apply in Spain, i.e. get re-approved to get back on board?  I am curious because my friend from FL is flying to Barcelona for the leg two cruise portion.  I know down the road they will provide more information but having never done a B2B was wondering those who have experienced.  

[nocl]

32 minutes ago, tert333 said:

Well, neither is the US.   Hopefully, they will open up the Bahamas soon.  They are in Phase 3(Opened Oct 15) and hoping to move to Phase 4  before the end of the year.   

 

If they make the rules permanent, that will be even more reason to have another base outside of the US to do 10 day caribbean cruises.   There will be many people, who given the choice of 7 days from Miami, or 10-14 days based out of some non-US port would chose the latter.

And which cruise ports in the Caribbean are open for cruise ship departures longer than 7 days?  For that matter how many are even open to cruise ships if any were sailing?

[chengkp75]

44 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

To my knowledge there is nothing in the CDC order that addresses B2B.  And they are technically considered separate cruises, which is why in the US you need to disembark and then get approved to get back onboard.  So realistically they would have no basis to deny B2B's - to do so would be in direct conflict with their position that they are separate cruises.  That said, it is possible Celebrity could put that type of rule in place but I seriously doubt it, especially by May.  

Don't know who you mean when you say that B2B's are "technically considered separate cruises", because for CBP they sure aren't, which is why many B2B's become illegal under the PVSA.  CBP does not care how the cruises are sold or advertised, they look at where you embark, and where you permanently disembark.  Getting off the ship to "zero count" the ship does not qualify as "permanently" disembarking.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Recent info is hard to come by, but about a decade ago it was reported that about 60% of US travelers on short Caribbean cruises DID NOT have passports. That number may be somewhat higher now, but perhaps still not much more than 50-50.

It will be interesting to see if Martinique's 2019 decision to require all passengers wishing to go ashore to have a valid passport will have an influence on other Caribbean islands.  

[cangelmd]

I may be a Pollyanna about this, but I think some cruising will start after the first of the year, because a lot of behind the s ends work has been done.

 I don’t think that the CDC 

”has it in” for the cruise industry, and I think the cruise lines want to keep passengers and crew safe, but they are constrained by finances and demand for cruising, so we don’t yet know how much retrofitting will be financially feasible.

 The only part of this that I think will become permanent is having facilities to stabilize patients with life threatening conditions - and if you are going to go on a transatlantic cruise for fun, isn’t that a good thing? The onboard testing that is in the directive will let them test for flu too, so a person may have to isolate in their cabin, but isn’t it better to not spread flu either? The improved ventilation would likely also stay.

Covid is NOT going to be the driving impetus of this forever. Once there is a vaccine, it is highly likely that cruise lines will require vaccination or a doctors letter stating why a person cannot be vaccinated, in order to cruise or to work on the ship. Once that happens, much of the Covid specific recommendations will quietly be allowed to expire. 

[tert333]

13 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

I may be a Pollyanna about this, but I think some cruising will start after the first of the year, because a lot of behind the s ends work has been done.

 I don’t think that the CDC 

”has it in” for the cruise industry, and I think the cruise lines want to keep passengers and crew safe, but they are constrained by finances and demand for cruising, so we don’t yet know how much retrofitting will be financially feasible.

 The only part of this that I think will become permanent is having facilities to stabilize patients with life threatening conditions - and if you are going to go on a transatlantic cruise for fun, isn’t that a good thing? The onboard testing that is in the directive will let them test for flu too, so a person may have to isolate in their cabin, but isn’t it better to not spread flu either? The improved ventilation would likely also stay.

Covid is NOT going to be the driving impetus of this forever. Once there is a vaccine, it is highly likely that cruise lines will require vaccination or a doctors letter stating why a person cannot be vaccinated, in order to cruise or to work on the ship. Once that happens, much of the Covid specific recommendations will quietly be allowed to expire. 

I agree with you completely.   I believe that in a period of time, the Covid restrictions and rules will be a thing of the past.   This will not only be for cruises but will transcend into the work place.

[mnocket]

6 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

Fact - The CDC top dog is a position appointed by the President and does not require Senate approval.

 

 When has this not been true?

 

By that rationale, you must distrust every action from the CDC to the FBI, IRS, State Dept., etc.   This is a pretty weak argument.  If you hate Trump, just say so and move on..... or better yet, find a political forum to post to.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

46 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

 When has this not been true?

 

By that rationale, you must distrust every action from the CDC to the FBI, IRS, State Dept., etc.   This is a pretty weak argument.  If you hate Trump, just say so and move on..... or better yet, find a political forum to post to.

Woah easy there Charlie .  Just making conversation and sharing opinions.

Don’t turn this into something ugly 

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

No it is not going to be easy at all - we agree on that.  But you asked what the major difference is.  The major difference is that the no sail order is just that - no one sails.  The conditional sail certificate is indeed difficult to obtain but not impossible.  Sailing with the no sail order out of the US was impossible.

Actually, the no sail order stated that if a cruise line met the requirements, they could apply for "pratique", on a case by case basis.  If I remember right, Bahamas Paradise was announcing it was starting sailing before the no sail order had expired, but then cancelled when covid rates went high in Florida.  They were the first to get their covid response plan approved, and with only one small ship it would be easy to line up shoreside support.