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What will happen today with the CDC?


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36 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

so whats the actual story here?  sailing can happen or only test sailings? Does not seem so clear cut.  thanks 

Well, first they have to have either been in US waters over the last 6 months, or have submitted data on crew health for 28 days prior to entering US waters.  Then they have to hold simulated cruises, with "volunteers" as passengers, and then get approval based on the results of the test  cruise/cruises, and then they can get a conditional permit to sail with restrictions like limited capacity.  I still wouldn't expect cruises before the end of the year, mainly because of the need to get written agreement with local hospitals and health care providers to accept possibly large numbers of cases if an outbreak happens.  I'm not sure even Florida hospitals will agree to that.

Edited by chengkp75
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1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, first they have to have either been in US waters over the last 6 months, or have submitted data on crew health for 28 days prior to entering US waters.  Then they have to hold simulated cruises, with "volunteers" as passengers, and then get approval based on the results of the test  cruise/cruises, and then they can get a conditional permit to sail with restrictions like limited capacity.  I still wouldn't expect cruises before the end of the year.

Sounds like a path to start and posters are down playing it because they didnt think this would happen or they did not want it to. 

 

cruisers should be thrilled,. 

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1 minute ago, seaman11 said:

Sounds like a path to start and posters are down playing it because they didnt think this would happen or they did not want it to. 

 

cruisers should be thrilled,. 

While it is a path forward, I think many are being realistic, and realizing that there are still hurdles for the lines to get over before any paying passengers get onboard.   I also think that it is a reasonable compromise between what is attainable for a cruise line and what are the best practices to meet the CDC's mandate of not allowing infectious disease into (or in this case, back into) the country.  The CDC has noted that while these requirements are not actual federal "rules", but emergency actions, because they had the "request for information" and a time delay after that (the latest extension of the no sail order), that they can make these into permanent rules or regulations without any further request for information or time delay.

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5 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Sounds like a path to start and posters are down playing it because they didnt think this would happen or they did not want it to. 

 

cruisers should be thrilled,. 

So, exactly what do you think is happening?  When do you think a passenger ship will sail with passengers?

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Lets see if I understand this:

 

Pax have to be tested negative before getting on ship along with all the crew members, they sail for a few days, go to a controlled island, or controlled US port, then return. Hoping that everyone is still negative. 

 

And this proves what? That ships can't manufacture the virus? 

 

It seems to me they are only testing the viability of the PAX willingness to obey all the protocols that will be required during the sailing. Or, maybe I'm missing something. 

 

Please don't start a flame war, you can call me stupid if you want, that's ok. But that's what it looks like to me. 

Edited by Radiioman46
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1 minute ago, Radiioman46 said:

Lets see if I understand this:

 

Pax have to be tested negative before getting on ship along with all the crew members, they sail for a few days, go to a controlled island, or controlled US port, then return. Hoping that everyone is still negative. 

 

And this proves what? That ships can't manufacture the virus? 

 

It seems to me they are only testing the viability of the PAX willingness to obey all the protocols that will be required during the sailing. Or, maybe I'm missing something. 

 

Please don't start a flame war, you can call me stupid if you want, that's ok. 

Pretty much, the hurdles are the same as they were under the no sail order, except that the requirement for offshore health care and quarantine have changed to the European model, where local hospitals will have to agree to take on possibly hundreds of patients all at once.  Whether the cruise lines can meet these requirements is still to be determined, they hadn't up until now, not sure what is changed.

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10 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

So, exactly what do you think is happening?  When do you think a passenger ship will sail with passengers?

Sometime by dec i think they will start the test runs ,  id love to be a volunteer, and im looking forward to a ship half empty. 

 

 

man it is so quiet in here you would think a tragedy happened,  lol 

 

this is great news. even if its 1 ship  in a month or 2 .  its getting the ball rolling. 

 

I

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The new order is very similar to Europe so Carnival Corp has had a pretty good idea on what to do and they have probably already been working on testing and private medical facilities. Nothing in the new order is a surprise to anyone.

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8 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I love all the optimism here, it always adds a couple more rays of sunshine.  Carnival will do what the need to do.   

 

Agreed, it's not like carnival does not want to sail.

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3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Pretty much, the hurdles are the same as they were under the no sail order, except that the requirement for offshore health care and quarantine have changed to the European model, where local hospitals will have to agree to take on possibly hundreds of patients all at once.  Whether the cruise lines can meet these requirements is still to be determined, they hadn't up until now, not sure what is changed.

The Governor of Florida has been and still is in favor of the cruises to restart from his state. However, his past history is just the opposite when it comes to allowing passengers who come down with the virus disembarking in his state and then being treated at a Florida hospital. It will be interesting to see what kind of agreements can be reached about local hospitals and patients on a ship with the virus.

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7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Pretty much, the hurdles are the same as they were under the no sail order, except that the requirement for offshore health care and quarantine have changed to the European model, where local hospitals will have to agree to take on possibly hundreds of patients all at once.  Whether the cruise lines can meet these requirements is still to be determined, they hadn't up until now, not sure what is changed.


Except that the local hospitals probably wouldn’t have hundreds of patients at once even if there was a large outbreak. Most who contract the virus don’t have serious symptoms that require a hospital visit, so the majority could easily be quarantined at a hotel.

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I can’t help but wonder about the 2021 European sailings in which many are longer than 7 days.  Will those be cancelled?

Edited by HLGW60
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4 hours ago, cksv said:


Except that the local hospitals probably wouldn’t have hundreds of patients at once even if there was a large outbreak. Most who contract the virus don’t have serious symptoms that require a hospital visit, so the majority could easily be quarantined at a hotel.

Well, I would argue that the cruise demographic skews this towards more hospitalization, but what I feel isn't important, it is what the scientists at the CDC feel would be a worst case scenario, and that is what they will most likely require as far as contracted services.

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3 hours ago, HLGW60 said:

I can’t help but wonder about the 2021 European sailings in which many are longer than 7 days.  Will those be cancelled?

The CDC has no control over European cruises, that would be the EU's decision to make.

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15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Pretty much, the hurdles are the same as they were under the no sail order, except that the requirement for offshore health care and quarantine have changed to the European model, where local hospitals will have to agree to take on possibly hundreds of patients all at once.  Whether the cruise lines can meet these requirements is still to be determined, they hadn't up until now, not sure what is changed.

From what I read on conditional approval there can only be a limited number of ships sailing from same port to keep the impact as low as possible for medical facilities.  I wonder how all the cruiselines will coordinate who gets to leave from miami, etc.  Fll and miami ports are very close to each other.

Also they need a housing agreement in place should crew and passengers need to quarantine when they disembark.  Will this be a hotel?  Or move people to a smaller ship?

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1 hour ago, Sunshine3601 said:

From what I read on conditional approval there can only be a limited number of ships sailing from same port to keep the impact as low as possible for medical facilities.  I wonder how all the cruiselines will coordinate who gets to leave from miami, etc.  Fll and miami ports are very close to each other.

Also they need a housing agreement in place should crew and passengers need to quarantine when they disembark.  Will this be a hotel?  Or move people to a smaller ship?

Yes, the port needs to agree on how many ships at a time.  How the lines settle this out is a very good question.  As for quarantine, they could do either, but the Healthy Sail panel recommended shoreside quarantine, so this would be a hotel or similar accommodation that would need the proper supplies on hand to set up a quarantine facility.

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3 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

From what I read on conditional approval there can only be a limited number of ships sailing from same port to keep the impact as low as possible for medical facilities.  I wonder how all the cruiselines will coordinate who gets to leave from miami, etc.  Fll and miami ports are very close to each other.

Also they need a housing agreement in place should crew and passengers need to quarantine when they disembark.  Will this be a hotel?  Or move people to a smaller ship?

And will their coordinating the limit on ships actually constitute an antitrust violation by the major cruise lines?

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8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And will their coordinating the limit on ships actually constitute an antitrust violation by the major cruise lines?

The cruise lines don't get to decide where their ships port. The ports decide what ships can visit.

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8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC has no control over European cruises, that would be the EU's decision to make.


The first paragraph on page 20 seems to imply it would

 

(b) Scope.  This framework applies to any person operating or intending to operate a cruise ship in U.S. waters and to anyone operating a cruise ship outside of U.S. waters if the cruise ship operator intends for the ship to return to operating in U.S. waters while this order is under effect.

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I'm curious what these simulated cruises will be. Will it be employees acting as passengers in a dry run? Or will it be more like the "soft opening" in a restaurant, where the volunteers are members of the public that knows going in it's really just a test, so no guarantees about the experience. If the latter, will the volunteers cruise free or will they be charged?

 

I'd guess the employees acting as cruisers scenario. The other might not fly with the CDC.

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