CDC Lifts Cruise Ban

[travelhound]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

That "44 cases" study by the airline industry certainly doesn't pass the smell test.

 

Here is the bottom line: air travel is considered "essential" and there is no appetite for overbearing restrictions on flying. It's that simple. If CDC imposed restrictions on airline passengers, there would be howling just as much as when restaurants and bars are shut. CDC is allowing the airlines to voluntarily decide what to do, including filling middle seats if they choose.

 

Hawaiian Airlines is resuming non-stop service between New York, Boston and Honolulu. The scheduled flight time from Boston is 11 1/2 hours. It is one of the longest domestic non-stop flights in the world. Hawaiian doesn't need any special certificate from CDC to do this AFAIK. Twelve hours in a metal tube with people removing masks to eat and drink. None of the arguments here about how flying is not anything like cruising as far as Covid is concerned are persuasive to me. We have 90,000 new cases a day in the U.S. and they have absolutely nothing to do with cruising.

Good point 👍

[orville99]

JMHO, YMMV - But, given that the new CDC rules limit cruises to 7 or fewer days, and that would rule out any TA cruises, Panama Canal cruises, and others that historically have been longer than 7 days, one possible scenario is that ships that would have made those TA's or Canal will stay where they are currently located. That, for example, would mean that ships like Allure that was supposed to TA to the U.S. to do Caribbean sailings next summer when Harmony was scheduled to TA to Europe to do Med sailings could simply just swap itineraries and manifests in 2021. That would mean Allure does Harmony's Med sailings and Harmony does Allure's Caribbean ones. The same swap could also happen for the Radiance class ship that was scheduled to do Alaska cruises, or the other Caribbean ships that were scheduled to TA to Europe for the summer.

 

I would imagine that there are several other examples that would make similar logistical sense given RCL's cash crunch and limits on the number of ships they will be able to certify going forward.

[logan25]

1 hour ago, ilockwh said:

It appears to me that the bureaucratic swamp won.

Just curious.  Why do you not characterize the CDC as a member of the Swamp?

[NavArch64]

Is the Royal Caribbean management team working today at Miami HQ?

[Debe7ing]

We are booked in the Grand Suite on the Liberty of the Seas from Galveston this Dec 13 for 7 days.  While I am HOPEFUL we get to go, I am expecting a cancellation of the sailing, HOWEVER, got some good news about this sailing in email today.  Forgive me if this is not news only to me, but NO MORE GOAT ROPE MUSTER DRILLS!!!!!!   Now you can do it on your phone, and just meander over to your muster station and sign in with them at your leisure anytime onboard before the ship sails and you are done!  SOMETHING positive! 

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/blog/royal-caribbean-changes-the-game-with-muster-2-0/?country=USA&ecid=em_11957263&rid=607907426&rcid=14408499&empc=RCIN_InnovationPitch _1020&emsc=RCIN_InnovationPitch _1020_CS_US&empf=&emct=GOLD&lnkid=TILE_6_CTA&ect=TAC&ecv=CAS

Edited October 31, 2020 by Debe7ing

[cublet]

Hello,

 

I've just finished the whole 40 pages and these points looks interesting:

 

The cruise ship operator must conduct a monitored observation period and laboratory testing of volunteer passengers, as directed in CDC technical instructions or orders, prior to embarking volunteer passengers on a simulated voyage.

Really? For how long? Where monitored?

 

And:

 

A simulated voyage must include the following simulated activities: (i) embarkation and disembarkation procedures, including terminal check-in, (ii) on board activities, including at dining and entertainment venues,

So 'simulated' dining but not real dining - they'll all starve!

 

I think the restriction to 7 night cruising is a restriction on the line rather than the passenger and the much discussed stop to B2B MAY be true if only because ships won't cruise B2B but spend some time between cruises on deep cleaning/disinfecting etc. As a result I think published itineraries could go out the window. Or, if ships sail at 50%, the unoccupied cabins on cruise one are occupied on cruise two whilst the first are cleaned/disinfected then vice versa and so on and so forth.

 

Anyway, now it's time for me to go out and install my trip-wires for the teat or treaters to fall over.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

Edited October 31, 2020 by cublet
additional text

[livingonthebeach]

There seems to be a lot of shakedown, mock and crew cruises required before and paying passengers can board.  The question is:  Will they begin as soon as November to experiment with the protocols to obtain the Conditional Sailing Certificate or wait until December?  If the answer is December, then it follows that cruises for passengers will only restart in January at the very earliest. 

 

How long does it take to contract with port area hotels, medical facilities and transportation in case of quarantine?  Doubtful but hopeful it can all be done in one month.  

 

How long to bring a crew back and quarantine them?  How long to take a ship from layup to being fully operational?     

 

The logistics just aren't pointing to a December restart.  😢

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Because for many of us flying is the beginning and end if a cruise.

Exactly.

For us it would take a 9 hour flight to Orlando or Miami.

[coaster]

27 minutes ago, cublet said:

 

 

The cruise ship operator must conduct a monitored observation period and laboratory testing of volunteer passengers, as directed in CDC technical instructions or orders, prior to embarking volunteer passengers on a simulated voyage.

Really? For how long? Where monitored?

 

 

 

I didn't notice that part. Checkin a day or two early at a hotel near the port and the cruise line will have representatives to notate if they hear any of the volunteers cough or sneeze? Creepy..... Like being a part of a lab experiment.

[leisuretraveler223]

What an amazing array of cruising-homer keyboard warriors we have here.  Sadly, your passionate prose is no match for facts and science.

 

Fact:  Cruising is a much MUCH more problematic vector than air travel.  Again, that is a FACT. Come at me with your "arguments" and I laugh because every one demonstrates that most of you do not know what you're talking about.  You have passionate beliefs, but there is little role for "passion" or "belief" in science.

 

But by all means, just keep beating away at those keys.  You are all entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts....

[NavArch64]

I would guess that the Royal Caribbean management team is hard at work at Miami HQ. There is not only a lot to review, but a lot of application materials to prepare, not to mention significant changes in ship deployment, itinerary planning and financial analysis.

[molly361]

I can't find it now but I thought somewhere in the 40 pages it said that the Conditional Sail Permit needed to be filed 60 days before starting to sail.  That would bring it to January 1 at the earliest and that's assuming all the test runs happen.  Anyone know what page that is on?

[NavArch64]

It is footnote 18 on page 28.

[livingonthebeach]

If the application for the Conditional Sailing Certificate has to be submitted 60 days prior as footnote 18 on page 28 states, that would mean they would have to submit it today for a January 1st sailing.  Don't think that will be happening, unfortunately.  The March restart that the CDC originally wanted is about to come to fruition.  Looks like they got what they wanted in the form of a footnote. 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[molly361]

2 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

If the application for the Conditional Sailing Certificate has to be submitted 60 days prior as footnote 18 on page 28 states, that would mean they would have to submit it today for a January 1st sailing.  Don't think that will be happening, unfortunately.  The March restart that the CDC originally wanted is about to come to fruition.  Looks like they got what they wanted in the form of a footnote. 

 

 

Are the simulated sailings supposed to happen BEFORE submitting their application?  If so that adds even more time onto the 60 days from today at best

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, islandwannabee said:

So to summarize, only 3 or 4 ships, doing 3-4 days with no back to backs?? Is this for the foreseeable future, like all of 2021?

CDC is allowing cruises up to 7 days.    Nothing specifically said about b2b's on CDC conditional order but i highly suspect they will not be permitted just like europe and singapore sailings are not allowing b2b's.       The opinion here is that RCL will start off with 3 or 4 night sailings to cococay and labadee and then gradually increase to 7 nights, if all goes well.   The CDC conditional order is in place till November 2021 but can be changed by them at anytime.      Of course, Nothing is definite.      

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, molly361 said:

Are the simulated sailings supposed to happen BEFORE submitting their application?  If so that adds even more time onto the 60 days from today at best

 

If they need to submit the application 60 days before the simulated sailings, then you're right, that would push it back even further.  Wonder if this is something negotiable with the CDC?  They did say it could be modified.  

[Biker19]

57 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Will they begin as soon as November to experiment with the protocols to obtain the Conditional Sailing Certificate or wait until December?

They need staff to do those - Quantum staff have to quarantine two weeks in Miami and then another two weeks on the ship, so even if they started next week to recall staff, it will be December before they can even think about experimenting.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Biker19

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Biker19 said:

They need staff to do those - Quantum staff have to quarantine two weeks in Miami and then another two weeks on the ship, so even if they started next week to recall staff, it will be December before they can even think about experimenting.

 

True and they have to submit an application 60 days before experimenting so shakedown cruises might not happen until 2021. 

[molly361]

March/April 2021 is looking better for revenue sailings

Edited October 31, 2020 by molly361

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, molly361 said:

March/April 2021 is looking better for a re-start to revenue sailings

 

Yes, it does look that way from the document, if it's followed to the T.   I'm hoping this is just a blueprint and can be modified and tweaked in some areas. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[Sunshine3601]

19 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

If the application for the Conditional Sailing Certificate has to be submitted 60 days prior as footnote 18 on page 28 states, that would mean they would have to submit it today for a January 1st sailing.  Don't think that will be happening, unfortunately.  The March restart that the CDC originally wanted is about to come to fruition.  Looks like they got what they wanted in the form of a footnote. 

 

 

Yup I mentioned this yesterday too.   It is going to take time for them to install labs on the ship to do a PCR test and get all the certifications mentioned on page 28 from the USCG.     From how I read it, once they all that set up all the framework / requirements they can then submit a request to CDC to get permission to do their simulated sailings.    I am unclear on whether they have to pass on the test sailings before they can submit 60 days prior to commencement.         

So let's say it takes them the next 30-days to set up labs, crew arrives and goes thru their testing/quarantine periods and they get all their USCG certifications and they request their test sailings for December.

Let's remember nothing moves quick with government inspections and paperwork so it will probably take a couple of weeks as all the cruise lines are going to be submitting their requests around the same time.    Plus everything will slow down with the December holidays.    

My prediction It will be at earliest February when they can start to sail with "real" passengers, probably more likely March.     So yup the CDC will be getting exactly what they wanted (no sail order in place til February).   

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

.. So yup the CDC will be getting exactly what they wanted (no sail order in place til February).   

 

Not to mention the time it will take to secure housing to quarantine passengers and crew, arrange for medical facilities on land and figure out the logistics of private transportation for the infected.  These are big hurdles that are going to require a lot of time and expense. 

[A&L_Ont]

12 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Let's remember nothing moves quick with government inspections and paperwork so it will probably take a couple of weeks as all the cruise lines are going to be submitting their requests around the same time.    Plus everything will slow down with the December holidays.    

My prediction It will be at earliest February when they can start to sail with "real" passengers, probably more likely March.     So yup the CDC will be getting exactly what they wanted (no sail order in place til February).   

We also don’t know how many inspectors will be handling the cruise industry.  That alone could help in creating a slow down. 

 

19 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Yes, it does look that way from the document, if it's followed to the T.   I'm hoping this is just a blueprint and can be modified and tweaked in some areas. 

For some reason I don’t think they will bend for the industry. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[Sunshine3601]

3 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Not to mention the time it will take to secure housing to quarantine passengers and crew, arrange for medical facilities on land and figure out the logistics of private transportation for the infected.  These are big hurdles that are going to require a lot of time and expense. 

yes, I wonder how they will go about doing that.    will they have an agreement with a hotel?    that is quite a challenge what hotel wants to be set up to have an unlimited number of empty rooms reserved for the possibility of a cruise ship bringing in crew or passengers of an unknown amount of confirmed Covid cases and close contacts.