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4 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

This is why the likes of Carnival and Royal Caribbean keep bringing out the huge resort ships - to appeal to a new generation. My concern is that it is to the detriment of their core cruisers in the older age ranges - the ones with more disposable income and time to cruise but who really don't want to  share a ship with 5000+ other pax.

 

I think that cruise companies need to look carefully at how they move forward and not alienate their core customers. Younger people and families can normally only travel during school holidays so restricts that market and can only go on 14 day max cruises.

M&S tried to become modern and funky with there clothing range to the overall detriment of their business i.e. lots of slim fit sizes and designs which don't suit their core demographic.

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11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I would not put any credence on cabin availability based on the P&O website. I would always book via a TA or over the phone with P&O, as you can then get then the correct availability position.

 

We booked the cabin that we wanted for the Oct 2022 cruise via our TA. I know that when we booked our QM2 cruise for next Sept there were a few more cabins of the grade and position that we wanted available via our TA than showing online but not many more. So even accounting for this a lot of cabins have gone already even for the recently released cruises.

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22 hours ago, wowzz said:

Absolutely  - makes no financial sense whatsoever from a P&O/Carnival perspective.

If you want a Japanese/Alaska cruise, Princess or HA have it covered.

And that  is one of reasons we have not booked P&O for 2022. 

On the point of financial sense why doesn't the British Cruise line P&O offer round Britain cruises? 

I suspect as they have sold so many ships in recent years they don't have the capacity. Replacing small ships with large ships might give them more passengers but makes it harder to cover more of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in general a P&O basher. I like the product which is why I would like them to travel further afield. TBH if I hadn't cruised with P&O I wouldn't have got the taste of seeing different places. Now I want to go further from home I am just so disappointed I can't go with P&O

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30 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

I think that cruise companies need to look carefully at how they move forward and not alienate their core customers. Younger people and families can normally only travel during school holidays so restricts that market and can only go on 14 day max cruises.

M&S tried to become modern and funky with there clothing range to the overall detriment of their business i.e. lots of slim fit sizes and designs which don't suit their core demographic.

Sticking to a traditional customer base is a sure fire way to see your business stagnate and die. I think the success of the business model that the Carnival and RCI groups have shown over the last 20 years, proves that they know the best way to develop the cruise industry.

Their big ships will not be to everyone's taste, but I imagine that their Seabourn, HAL, Celebrity and Azamara brands will be developed to satisfy the needs of their more traditional and discerning cruise customers.

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2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Sticking to a traditional customer base is a sure fire way to see your business stagnate and die. I think the success of the business model that the Carnival and RCI groups have shown over the last 20 years, proves that they know the best way to develop the cruise industry.

Their big ships will not be to everyone's taste, but I imagine that their Seabourn, HAL, Celebrity and Azamara brands will be developed to satisfy the needs of their more traditional and discerning cruise customers.

P&O seem to be doing quite well using their business model, they have gradually increased capacity. I think the reason they are doing well is because they are affordable to the masses. I like the general product albeit the standards have eroded, which when comparing the price is understandable. I have always thought of P&O as a bit boring with itineraries. It is fine for the first 10 years then we struggle to find something new, a 14-19 night med cruise with 1 new port is not for us now unless we want a short getaway in the sun. Saying that we do enjoy the 35 nighters to the Caribbean/USA, however the itineraries rarely include new ports and the shows are same old, it's just better than being at home in winter. As we are now looking for something different we are using other lines to fit our needs and have booked our first river cruise for June 2021 (hopefully). We accept that it will become more expensive or we will reduce our nights aboard to suit our budget.

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It really is a multi-layered issue.  All businesses have to adapt and change to remain successful - some get it right others not so right.  The change in P&O is particularly layered as for many years they were providing a 'traditional' cruise experience to many very loyal passengers.  They are of course now owned by a USA-based company and as we all know, the UK tends to follow trends set in the USA as opposed to elsewhere in Europe. Having said that, some european countries are now also slowly starting to follow American trends.

This is where I generalise massively and potentially upset some people.  Your average American now has a pretty short attention-span and so enjoys a lot of variety in many ways.  This includes holidays, where they like to pack a lot into a short space of time.  Many Americans still have far less paid holiday time than Europeans and so the cruise model in the USA tends to be for 7-night cruises or shorter.  USA culture in many ways tends to think bigger is better.  Hence the move to the mega-resort-ships. Hence the 'evolution' of P&O to larger, more casual ships and the introduction of Iona.

I think it is also pertinent to remember that P&O has, over a number of years, changed its place in the market, basically moving from an expensive, sophisticated, formal style to a much cheaper, mid-market, more casual style - all the time trying to please its long-term, traditional clientele and attract a newer, younger demographic.  This works for some but sadly doesn't work for all of us.

I've spent a long time being disappointed and a little angry at P&O for doing this but have come to realise over the last few years that there is no point taking that attitude.  I am now reconciled to the fact that P&O is gradually changing its product to one that will suit a vast number of new passengers but one that doesn't suit me.  I will, hopefully, still enjoy the P&O product as provided on Aurora and Arcadia but accept that my loyalty is likely to be transferred to someone like Fred Olsen or a new incarnation of CMV should that happen.  My ideal would be for Saga to build another ship but one which isn't all-balcony and therefore might be within my cruise budget :-).

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Andrew as you say, at present it ticks the boxes for us.  We do like to have the odd new port, but mostly we like the sunshine, going ashore, having a local lunch and that's about it.  Once they remove Aurora and Arcadia, we will also be reverting to Fred or similar.

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3 hours ago, Cathygh said:

Now I want to go further from home I am just so disappointed I can't go with P&O

But why the need to go with P&O? It's not as if they are a fantastic cruise line - just middle of the road with pricing to match. (Which, by the way, is not a crticism, just a statement of fact).   

What's wrong with Princess or HA?

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Just a idea !! It would be nice if every 5 years or so P & O built a smaller ship like Arcadia or Aurora to still pull the ones that like smaller ships like myself and then they would be able to go to places the bigger ships would not be able to , just me dreaming 🙂

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2 minutes ago, Purdey16 said:

Just a idea !! It would be nice if every 5 years or so P & O built a smaller ship like Arcadia or Aurora to still pull the ones that like smaller ships like myself and then they would be able to go to places the bigger ships would not be able to , just me dreaming 🙂

Carnival already operate Seabourne, so not sure from a corporate view, how your idea would fit in. Anyway, what you want in terms of ship size, is already available with Saga, and also Fred, so no need to dream. You can book the cruise you want now.

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5 hours ago, Cathygh said:

And that  is one of reasons we have not booked P&O for 2022. 

On the point of financial sense why doesn't the British Cruise line P&O offer round Britain cruises

I suspect as they have sold so many ships in recent years they don't have the capacity. Replacing small ships with large ships might give them more passengers but makes it harder to cover more of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in general a P&O basher. I like the product which is why I would like them to travel further afield. TBH if I hadn't cruised with P&O I wouldn't have got the taste of seeing different places. Now I want to go further from home I am just so disappointed I can't go with P&O

We first did a Round Britain cruise some years ago with Princess and even though it sailed from Southampton the majority of the ship was full of Americans and there were very few Brits onboard. They did Round British Isles cruises throughout the summer and still do mainly for the American market who like to visit London/Paris pre or post cruise. To my knowledge there were no other or very few cruise lines at that time did British Isle cruises and I suppose P&O didnt want to challenge Princess. Since then they have become more popular but even now P&O/Cunard only do one a year and even then might not be a full round Britain cruise as per Princess.

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6 hours ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

Yesterday swopped again our deposit from previously rearranged June 2021 Iceland cruise back to a Oct 2022 Central (Eastern) Arcadia cruise, We also should have been on the similar 2020 cruise a few weeks ago.

 

Did some clicking around the P&O website last night for 2022 cruises and the amount of booked cabins surprised me for the cruises which I looked at (vast majority taken), is it people like us moving cruises again, pent up demand or P&O holding back cabins?

Come and join us on the Roll Call for this cruise in October 22.

Have just initiated it as quite a few were mentioning they had booked it.

 

Terri

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3 hours ago, wowzz said:

But why the need to go with P&O? It's not as if they are a fantastic cruise line - just middle of the road with pricing to match. (Which, by the way, is not a crticism, just a statement of fact).   

What's wrong with Princess or HA?

Because I am tight. I want to use my loyalty club discount. Sadly I can not afford an extra cruise with P&O if I have to book with another line to see the places I want to see. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

Because I am tight. I want to use my loyalty club discount. Sadly I can not afford an extra cruise with P&O if I have to book with another line to see the places I want to see. 

 

So, rather than visit the places you want to see, you stick with P&O and see the same old ports?

Obviously your choice, and you are prioritising the  number  of  cruises as being more important to you than the destinations themselves.  Nothing wrong with that, but in all honesty, I don't think that even with a discount,  P&O would be that much cheaper than Princess.

We always wanted to visit Australia  - we saved up, and spent 5 weeks touring around - a fantastic trip. That was our only holiday for 3 years, but we will remember that expensive holiday for the rest of our lives, whereas the cheap holidays we didn't take would soon have been forgotten. 

 

 

Edited by wowzz
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4 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

P&O seem to be doing quite well using their business model, they have gradually increased capacity. I think the reason they are doing well is because they are affordable to the masses. I like the general product albeit the standards have eroded, which when comparing the price is understandable. I have always thought of P&O as a bit boring with itineraries. It is fine for the first 10 years then we struggle to find something new, a 14-19 night med cruise with 1 new port is not for us now unless we want a short getaway in the sun. Saying that we do enjoy the 35 nighters to the Caribbean/USA, however the itineraries rarely include new ports and the shows are same old, it's just better than being at home in winter. As we are now looking for something different we are using other lines to fit our needs and have booked our first river cruise for June 2021 (hopefully). We accept that it will become more expensive or we will reduce our nights aboard to suit our budget.

I agree with you.We have been cruising for about 8 years and P and O itineraries were fine for the first 6 or 7  years.We have done one 28 night crossing to the Caribbean and back and was looking forward to the one in January 2021 that we had booked.I would still like to sail on one of the Ventura 35 night cruises in early 2022 but don't want to book anything at the moment.We are also considering a river cruise as a way of visiting new places.I am sure we will cruise with P and O in the future but probably as a last minute deal and hopefully in 2021

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8 hours ago, Cathygh said:

And that  is one of reasons we have not booked P&O for 2022. 

On the point of financial sense why doesn't the British Cruise line P&O offer round Britain cruises? 

I suspect as they have sold so many ships in recent years they don't have the capacity. Replacing small ships with large ships might give them more passengers but makes it harder to cover more of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in general a P&O basher. I like the product which is why I would like them to travel further afield. TBH if I hadn't cruised with P&O I wouldn't have got the taste of seeing different places. Now I want to go further from home I am just so disappointed I can't go with P&O

I assume that P&O/Carnival have looked at the likely demand for round Britain cruises, and if they thought there was an untapped demand, you can be assured they would be on their schedules.

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1 hour ago, wowzz said:

So, rather than visit the places you want to see, you stick with P&O and see the same old ports?

Obviously your choice, and you are prioritising the  number  of  cruises as being more important to you than the destinations themselves.  Nothing wrong with that, but in all honesty, I don't think that even with a discount,  P&O would be that much cheaper than Princess.

We always wanted to visit Australia  - we saved up, and spent 5 weeks touring around - a fantastic trip. That was our only holiday for 3 years, but we will remember that expensive holiday for the rest of our lives, whereas the cheap holidays we didn't take would soon have been forgotten. 

 

 

Am I "prioritising the  number  of  cruises as being more important" "than the destinations themselves."  Really?  Actually my posts make clear I am prioritising the destinations, hence I have not booked a P&O cruise for 2022. 

  

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24 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

Am I "prioritising the  number  of  cruises as being more important" "than the destinations themselves."  Really?  Actually my posts make clear I am prioritising the destinations, hence I have not booked a P&O cruise for 2022. 

  

We have done about 30 cruises and are loyal. We are in all the loyalty schemes. Loyal to everybody we are. Celebrity, RCI, P&O, NCL. Therefore we are not a particularly high level in any of them. We are also loyal to Tesco, Sainsbury, Morrison. We are as loyal as you can get. We are more loyal to ourselves so consider price, ship, ports. Best ones get our loyalty, until something better comes along.

 

When we get our invite to the naming ceremony of P&O's wonderful new ship, we may be even loyaller.

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Ha ha, that's funny.  We are loyal to Tesco, Lidl and M&S.  We are also loyal to P&O and Fred.

 

It's pathetic really.  I note that P&O are again suggesting that if you are an existing customer you get 10% off.  They are also giving 5% to new customers, so in fact they are only giving 5% to loyal customers.  They did this before and I got extra OBC for pointing it out.

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4 hours ago, Cathygh said:

Am I "prioritising the  number  of  cruises as being more important" "than the destinations themselves."  Really?  Actually my posts make clear I am prioritising the destinations, hence I have not booked a P&O cruise for 2022. 

  

Sorry, I don't understand your answer. You want to go to Alaska,  but because P&O don't go there, you cannot go. 

I don't understand your rationale.  

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3 hours ago, zap99 said:

We have done about 30 cruises and are loyal. We are in all the loyalty schemes. Loyal to everybody we are. Celebrity, RCI, P&O, NCL. Therefore we are not a particularly high level in any of them. We are also loyal to Tesco, Sainsbury, Morrison. We are as loyal as you can get. We are more loyal to ourselves so consider price, ship, ports. Best ones get our loyalty, until something better comes along.

 

When we get our invite to the naming ceremony of P&O's wonderful new ship, we may be even loyaller.

I've got the Wetherspoons app, so, as a loyal customer,  I'm very happy!  No need to queue at the bar at 10am for a pint of White Lightening! Delivered to my table  - sorted!

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3 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Ha ha, that's funny.  We are loyal to Tesco, Lidl and M&S.  We are also loyal to P&O and Fred.

 

It's pathetic really.  I note that P&O are again suggesting that if you are an existing customer you get 10% off.  They are also giving 5% to new customers, so in fact they are only giving 5% to loyal customers.  They did this before and I got extra OBC for pointing it out.


The summer 2022 mini brochure which arrived a couple of days ago makes it clear that they are offering up to 10% guest saving with the explanation that it is 5% for new guests and 10% for past guests in the footnote.
They have obviously learnt from last year because surely nobody could misunderstand that. Existing guests will (and do) receive a 10% discount off the published prices. The fact that new cruisers also get 5% discount does not affect the 10% discount promised and given to past guests - nowhere do they say past guests get a 10% discount off the discounted price given to new guests. 

Edited by pete14
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