First ship to sail Caribbean since COVID headed back to port with all passengers quarantined

[rothbury]

I guess I could have been a little clearer with my question.  I know numerous people that have been tested and have no documentation.  They were called by phone and told their test was negative, or in one case, positive.  I guess t6hat's my point.  There doesn't seem to be any uniform documentation.  I'm familiar with immunization records but they are not readily available to people who don't travel to countries that require them.  We used to call them "shot records".  I probably still have mine from the 50's when they were even required in Europe.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

18 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Unfortunately the fast tests are the only option that the cruise ships have right now.  If you really want it to work, do the following:

 

1.  Have a negative test within 72 hours of arrival in port,

2.  You are quarantined for seven days upon arrival at the port,

3.  You are tested again prior to boarding.

 

Other then the false negative risk, that would work.  

I agree. 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, Cruise Critic Chris said:

Hi all. We are continually updating our stories, as we have a freelance writer onboard (Sue Bryant). This am, the count is seven positives. Five are from a family group traveling together and then another couple. The crew and the rest of the passengers are negative, after two tests (one from the ship and the other by the Barbados authorities). 

 

We will be updating these two stories as we get more information: 

 

Live from SeaDream: When Your Caribbean Cruise Has a COVID-19 Case

SeaDream Yacht Club Cuts Short First Caribbean Cruise Back

 

From Sue Bryant’s article, those arriving in Barbados who were going on a cruise were considered in transit and exempt from quarantine. Somehow an American family contracted the virus traveling to Barbados and were still in the incubation period when they boarded the ship.This would be the weak link in the chain that ultimately failed.
If the virus incubates from 3 - 5 days, a six day quarantine before embarking should be mandatory during the initial start up period.

[Cruising-along]

20 minutes ago, rothbury said:

I guess I could have been a little clearer with my question.  I know numerous people that have been tested and have no documentation.  They were called by phone and told their test was negative, or in one case, positive.  I guess t6hat's my point.  There doesn't seem to be any uniform documentation.  I'm familiar with immunization records but they are not readily available to people who don't travel to countries that require them.  We used to call them "shot records".  I probably still have mine from the 50's when they were even required in Europe.

I was tested months ago (mild symptoms, test was negative).  I had the test done through my doctor's office, and I have "My Chart" where I can see my records.  It shows that I had a test, the date, and that it was negative.  I supposed I could print that off as proof, of course this doesn't mean everyone gets any proof.

[Sailfish]

3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

While I have not been tested I am sure you get documentation of your results.  Those results are required for entry in many countries (and Hawaii) so you would have to have documentation.

 

I suspect the vaccine documentation will be similar to what you get for yellow fever or hepatitis.  We have a little yellow book that documents our vaccinations.

I have been tested several times for medical tests like my Colonoscopy, and after returning from overseas, which was the antibody test. All negative. Those initiated by my medical provider said no news was good news. Obviously, I tested negative to the two nasal swab tests I got, as my procedures went off without issue. But the blood test I had, which was also negative, I did have a record of it through the labs portal. I did not receive anything in writing formally. 

[kangforpres]

Yea this is bad, good thing it's a small ship with not very many pax

[KroozNut]

On 11/11/2020 at 6:36 PM, HappyInVan said:

Do you suppose...... that the CDC knows more about infectious diseases than the average Facebook doctor???? 🙄

 

Based on their track record to date, probably not..

[rkacruiser]

13 hours ago, bcummin said:

 

It may be more than the education system.

Barbara

 

Of course.  The statement in my post was too broad.  

[iancal]

The only surprise is that some people were surprised.

[KirkNC]

3 hours ago, Sailfish said:

I have been tested several times for medical tests like my Colonoscopy, and after returning from overseas, which was the antibody test. All negative. Those initiated by my medical provider said no news was good news. Obviously, I tested negative to the two nasal swab tests I got, as my procedures went off without issue. But the blood test I had, which was also negative, I did have a record of it through the labs portal. I did not receive anything in writing formally. 

I wonder what you do if you are heading somewhere that requires a negative test.  Maybe you have to request documentation.

[Hlitner]

53 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I wonder what you do if you are heading somewhere that requires a negative test.  Maybe you have to request documentation.

There are already some cases, in Europe, of counterfeit and/or altered test documents.  Apparently there will be some prosecutions.  The Washington Post actually had an article detailing cases where Europeans can buy fake test results.  If one needs a negative test....just buy it.

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

54 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There are already some cases, in Europe, of counterfeit and/or altered test documents.  Apparently there will be some prosecutions.  The Washington Post actually had an article detailing cases where Europeans can buy fake test results.  If one needs a negative test....just buy it.

 

Hank

 

This has to be the most discouraging news that I have read/heard today!

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There are already some cases, in Europe, of counterfeit and/or altered test documents.  Apparently there will be some prosecutions.  The Washington Post actually had an article detailing cases where Europeans can buy fake test results.  If one needs a negative test....just buy it.

 

Hank

I guess thats inevitable.

[ABoatNerd]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Yep, that is a solution.  But that also means that nobody can leave the ship in any port where there are any other folks ashore.  The only viable port would be an empty private island or empty private enclave at some port.   Getting back to the Sea Dream, it is the perfect example of what I have been posting for many months.  Testing is not going to work and near worthless if the goal is avoid all cases of COVID.  All the PR about testing (promoted by politicians, medical authorities, etc) is somewhat of a con.  Testing does nothing to prevent COVID and not very important in the treatment of COVID (most treatment is about treating the symptoms) other then to determine if a therapeutic is a good idea.  In the case of cruise ships the main benefit of testing is to let the ship know when it is time to quarantine the entire ship :(.  

 

I try looking at COVID with common sense and facts!  We cannot stop this virus without some help from one or more vaccines.  All the proposals to resume cruising are based on a false premise...that testing can stop COVID!  Someday historians will look back on this period and say that all this emphasis on testing is akin to lunacy!  Testing has its place, but is far from a panacea.  Common sense goes a lot further then testing to minimize one's risk of getting COVID.  Social distancing is the only real preventative (you cannot get the virus if you are not exposed) and a mask (wear you cannot social distance) obviously gives some help (how much is a big question).   Ashore, most of us have power to deal with our own risk level and COVID prevention.  On a ship we lose that power and are at the mercy of luck.  Anytime you use an elevator you are at some risk...and most cannot avoid elevators on vessels.  Social distancing on a vessel is near impossible, especially if one wants to enjoy the cruise experience.

 

Hank

Thank you for your sorely needed common sense post.

 

You need to be cloned and operate in every jurisdiction and on every CC board.

[ontheweb]

21 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Yep, that is a solution.  But that also means that nobody can leave the ship in any port where there are any other folks ashore.  The only viable port would be an empty private island or empty private enclave at some port.   Getting back to the Sea Dream, it is the perfect example of what I have been posting for many months.  Testing is not going to work and near worthless if the goal is avoid all cases of COVID.  All the PR about testing (promoted by politicians, medical authorities, etc) is somewhat of a con.  Testing does nothing to prevent COVID and not very important in the treatment of COVID (most treatment is about treating the symptoms) other then to determine if a therapeutic is a good idea.  In the case of cruise ships the main benefit of testing is to let the ship know when it is time to quarantine the entire ship :(.  

 

I try looking at COVID with common sense and facts!  We cannot stop this virus without some help from one or more vaccines.  All the proposals to resume cruising are based on a false premise...that testing can stop COVID!  Someday historians will look back on this period and say that all this emphasis on testing is akin to lunacy!  Testing has its place, but is far from a panacea.  Common sense goes a lot further then testing to minimize one's risk of getting COVID.  Social distancing is the only real preventative (you cannot get the virus if you are not exposed) and a mask (wear you cannot social distance) obviously gives some help (how much is a big question).   Ashore, most of us have power to deal with our own risk level and COVID prevention.  On a ship we lose that power and are at the mercy of luck.  Anytime you use an elevator you are at some risk...and most cannot avoid elevators on vessels.  Social distancing on a vessel is near impossible, especially if one wants to enjoy the cruise experience.

 

Hank

I wonder what will happen with the bubble excursions if someone other than a participant wanders near it. Will they now quarantine on the ship every passenger on the excursion for possible exposure?

 

We were at a wedding yesterday, a nephew. Those of us not in the wedding party all wore masks and seats were set up in twos for couples, but six feet apart from other seats. The wedding party did not mask up, and was rather large. There was a cocktail hour immediately afterwards, and even though there were masks available none of the wedding party (there were IIRC seven each from each side plus of course the bride and groom) wore a mask even though they were now mingled with guests. DW grabbed me and said we are leaving now. (We had already informed them we were not going to go to the reception because it was not going to have the same mask and social distancing requirements at their home as at the wedding place.) Yes, common sense. But, why is it lacking from others? I guess too many young people think they are invulnerable.

[bouhunter]

31 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I guess too many young people think they are invulnerable.

Not saying they shouldn't be more careful and considerate, but when it comes to covid most of them are.

[KirkNC]

I recently read about a wedding that led to over 150 CV infections and multiple deaths so you made the right call.

[TiogaCruiser]

22 hours ago, rothbury said:

I'm probably posting this in the wrong thread but I'm going to ask anyway.  DW and I have not been tested for the virus.  We've had no reason to be tested.  My question is this:  After you are tested and shown to be positive or negative; do they give you something in writing to prove you are as tested?  I keep seeing all these comments about testing but how do you know somebody has been tested and what the results of that test was/are?  When the time comes for a vaccine are they planning to hand you some form of card or other means to prove you have had the vaccine?  Just confused how all of this is supposed to work.

You can request a copy of the results. Just like any other part of your medical record. How you do that is dictated by the policies of your provider or the entity that ordered the test.

 

 

[TiogaCruiser]

23 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Testing is not going to work and near worthless if the goal is avoid all cases of COVID.  All the PR about testing (promoted by politicians, medical authorities, etc) is somewhat of a con.  Testing does nothing to prevent COVID and not very important in the treatment of COVID (most treatment is about treating the symptoms) other then to determine if a therapeutic is a good idea.  In the case of cruise ships the main benefit of testing is to let the ship know when it is time to quarantine the entire ship :(.  

I try looking at COVID with common sense and facts!  We cannot stop this virus without some help from one or more vaccines.  All the proposals to resume cruising are based on a false premise...that testing can stop COVID!  Someday historians will look back on this period and say that all this emphasis on testing is akin to lunacy!  Testing has its place, but is far from a panacea.  Common sense goes a lot further then testing to minimize one's risk of getting COVID.  Social distancing is the only real preventative (you cannot get the virus if you are not exposed) and a mask (wear you cannot social distance) obviously gives some help (how much is a big question).   

Well said. At best, that is locking the barn after the horse walked away.... and when it’s discovered, the horse had been in active circulation for a while.

 

And testing gives Public Health something to estimate the number of cases and trends. 
 

When I was doing contact tracing I was appalled at the number of people who reported they only started isolating after they got their positive results (even though they were symptomatic), several days later. 🤪
And early on, those who were seeking a covid test to “clear themselves“ so they could go to work even though they had URI symptoms.😡

 

 

[Hlitner]

Perhaps the testing thing needs to be put in proper perspective.  If you get a fast antigen test (results in less then an hour) there is at least a 20% false negative possibility.  In addition, that test will not show positive if you have been exposed (and contracted) COVID within the prior 3-5 days.  If you get a much more accurate PCR test (it can take hours to days to get results) it will also not show if you were exposed (and contracted) COVID within the prior 3-5 days.  Now consider that some places now require a negative PCR test within the prior 72 hours.  Add to that the 3-5 day incubation period (time between when you were exposed and when you test positive) and by the time you get positive PCR results you may have had COVID for at least a week!  

 

While I can understand testing being a great tool for public health statistics I fail to see how it will help cruise ships prevent COVID.  As long as this virus is fairly common, cases are going to slip through any testing protocol.  And once there is a positive case on a cruise ship, what happens to all the other souls on that ship?  They would likely need to be quarantined for at least 3-5 days and then given a decent PCR test to make sure they are COVID free.  Meanwhile the cruise is ruined, the ship must go to a port willing to accept the vessel, and those who test negative would likely be able to go on their way.  Anyone else who tests positive would have to be further quarantined until they finally test negative (this could be several weeks).  Meanwhile those folks would not be able to use public transit so they are stuck somewhere (ship, hotel, etc).  Who pays for the quarantine, medical care, food, hotel, etc?

 

Somebody please tell me where I am wrong!

 

Hank

[KirkNC]

17 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps the testing thing needs to be put in proper perspective.  If you get a fast antigen test (results in less then an hour) there is at least a 20% false negative possibility.  In addition, that test will not show positive if you have been exposed (and contracted) COVID within the prior 3-5 days.  If you get a much more accurate PCR test (it can take hours to days to get results) it will also not show if you were exposed (and contracted) COVID within the prior 3-5 days.  Now consider that some places now require a negative PCR test within the prior 72 hours.  Add to that the 3-5 day incubation period (time between when you were exposed and when you test positive) and by the time you get positive PCR results you may have had COVID for at least a week!  

 

While I can understand testing being a great tool for public health statistics I fail to see how it will help cruise ships prevent COVID.  As long as this virus is fairly common, cases are going to slip through any testing protocol.  And once there is a positive case on a cruise ship, what happens to all the other souls on that ship?  They would likely need to be quarantined for at least 3-5 days and then given a decent PCR test to make sure they are COVID free.  Meanwhile the cruise is ruined, the ship must go to a port willing to accept the vessel, and those who test negative would likely be able to go on their way.  Anyone else who tests positive would have to be further quarantined until they finally test negative (this could be several weeks).  Meanwhile those folks would not be able to use public transit so they are stuck somewhere (ship, hotel, etc).  Who pays for the quarantine, medical care, food, hotel, etc?

 

Somebody please tell me where I am wrong!

 

Hank

Your right which is why cruising won’t work until the virus is behind us.  If you do a strict quarantine for a week prior to boarding and use multiple tests I think you can reduce the odds significantly, however you can’t get off the ship at ports or all bets are off.  Who wants to cruise like that?

[cruzingnut]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:26 PM, KirkNC said:

Unfortunately the fast tests are the only option that the cruise ships have right now.  If you really want it to work, do the following:

 

1.  Have a negative test within 72 hours of arrival in port,

2.  You are quarantined for seven days upon arrival at the port,

3.  You are tested again prior to boarding.

 

Other then the false negative risk, that would work.  

 

Finally, someone else thinking the way I've been thinking.  You are so right in that this is the ONLY way this will work.  Where the quarantine would be would have to be very controlled, too.  No going out, room would need to have been cleaned to within an inch of it's life.  Transportation to the cruise terminal to board the ship would have to be clean and anyone in close contact with them would also have to be tested and have been quarantined themselves.   

 

So, in a nutshell....either these extreme measures have to be taken or cruising isn't feasible until a vaccine is available.  Regarding the vaccine, that will be another lengthy process being sure that it's safe and effective for more that just the small number of people in the current trial. 

 

Linda R.

[HappyInVan]

19 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

Based on their track record to date, probably not..

 

How has your track record been since March? WE should thank the stars for the scientists. 🙂

[cruzingnut]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There are already some cases, in Europe, of counterfeit and/or altered test documents.  Apparently there will be some prosecutions.  The Washington Post actually had an article detailing cases where Europeans can buy fake test results.  If one needs a negative test....just buy it.

 

Hank

 

This will definitely be an issue.  Anyone that thinks people won't try to do this is deluding themselves.  Why can I be so sure making this statement?  Just think about what people do regarding Noro.  They don't report it; they sneak out of their cabins when they are supposed to be quarantined. 

 

Boy, I am such a "Debby Downer" today!  But, truth is truth....unfortunately. 😔

 

Linda R.

[KroozNut]

5 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

How has your track record been since March? WE should thank the stars for the scientists. 🙂

 

Since you asked, mine has been pretty good... and yours?