Plain and Simple

[Capitan Obvious]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

Well , with Moderna’s vaccine 95% effective why would NCL even think of allowing an anti vaccinator aboard? You think they’ll risk millions and more negative press by letting those select few aboard over a few measly thousand dollars in profits versus possible millions of dollars in losses? It just takes one case. The lines won’t take any chances if the vaccine is readily available. They won’t accept whiners and excuses. Its their business, not ours. One anti then turns into two , then four, then 8 ..... zero tolerance or excuses will be the rule. Too much at risk to have the crybabies set it all back .....

 

You're arguing against yourself. You say one anti vaccinator is a problem. But what happens if they let people WITH a vaccine onboard and those people are part of the 5-10% where the vaccine is NOT effective? What then? How do you risk 5-10% of the guests with COVID? 

 

You have to listen to what they are actually saying. Just like "97% fat free means 3% fat, 95% effective means 5% (that is 200+ guests on a Breakaway class ship) that could be infected.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

Well , with Moderna’s vaccine 95% effective why would NCL even think of allowing an anti vaccinator aboard? You think they’ll risk millions and more negative press by letting those select few aboard over a few measly thousand dollars in profits versus possible millions of dollars in losses? It just takes one case. The lines won’t take any chances if the vaccine is readily available. They won’t accept whiners and excuses. Its their business, not ours. One anti then turns into two , then four, then 8 ..... zero tolerance or excuses will be the rule. Too much at risk to have the crybabies set it all back .....

Because it will take a year to vaccinate enough people in the United States to slow the pandemic. It will take a lot longer to have a worldwide effect. Magic 94.5% effective vaccine with have 10M doses by the end of the year. That enough for 1% of the US (0.06% of the world). 

[HuliHuli]

10 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

94.5% effective vaccine with have 10M doses by the end of the year. That enough for 1% of the US (0.06% of the world).

“Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel said 20 million doses will be available by the end of the year.”

“Overall, if both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are approved by the FDA, the U.S. could have as many as 60 million doses of vaccine available by the end of the year, Reuters reported.”

“The company [Moderna ] said it … hoped to manufacture 500 million to 1 billion doses globally in 2021” of which “Moderna has signed a $1.5 billion agreement with the federal government to purchase 100 million doses of its vaccine once it’s been approved.”  And that is only one of the potential vaccines.

Edited November 17, 2020 by HuliHuli

[tallnthensome]

13 hours ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

You're arguing against yourself. You say one anti vaccinator is a problem. But what happens if they let people WITH a vaccine onboard and those people are part of the 5-10% where the vaccine is NOT effective? What then? How do you risk 5-10% of the guests with COVID? 

 

You have to listen to what they are actually saying. Just like "97% fat free means 3% fat, 95% effective means 5% (that is 200+ guests on a Breakaway class ship) that could be infected.

I get all of that .... it’s not 100% effective . Im just saying that it will be required for everyone .... of course there are still risks and percentages. Letting someone on board who refuses the vaccine. They go into a port on a cruise and catch Covid from a local on an island, port, or wherever .... they bring it back on board. You know what I’m getting at. 

[lucywestie]

The selfishness and shortsightedness of some on this post is amazing. Lets put things into perspective. Grocery stores are essential. Cruising isn't. According to online figures 28 million people cruised in 2018. The world population currently stands at approximately 7.8 billion which puts cruisers at about .3% of the population.

The UN World Tourism Organisation puts people that travel in a year as approximately 1.4 billion people who travel. That would put cruisers at only approximately 2% of world travelers.

 

So, cruising is not essential. It may support other industries but it still isn't essential. Until there is a safe and readily available vaccine EVERYBODY should be doing their part. Whether its wearing a mask, washing your hands more frequently, limiting your exposure to crowds and other people. If it means not traveling then so be it. I have cancelled two trips this year and had lots of other events cancelled on me because of the closure of sporting events and theatre's. Was I upset? Sure. Did I put on my big boy pants and realise that its for the good of everyone, yup. But elsewhere on all sorts of forums and especially on CC I see people throwing these little tantrums and its ridiculous. They need to give their heads a shake.

 

The people who say they are just going to do what they wish because basically "its my right" are outright selfish. Maybe when their relatives start dying they might think twice about it but I doubt it. 

[Homosassa]

21 hours ago, MrsKC08 said:

 

Here is the thing. This is a virus, not a disease. Not to mention that many people get the flu vaccine that has been in production for years...and still get the flu. Matter of fact, the ONE time I got flu, I had received the vaccine. Putting Covid in the same category as Mumps/Measles is ludacris. 

 

 

😖

[MrsKC08]

16 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

This is exactly how it will be and should be. No proof of vaccination,  no cruise for you. If you’re too much of a scared bi+ch and afraid of needles then you stay home. I highly doubt the cruise lines will want anyone on board without the vaccination. It will only take one anti vaccinator to cancel a cruise a ruin it for everyone and cost the cruise lines millions of dollars if they have to turn around. They will not want these people on the ship if the vaccine is available ......

This is really comical. You do realize that those not wanting to get this vaccine has NOTHING to do with someone being scared of needles. As a woman who did several rounds of IVF treatment and had to have an IM needle (22 gauge) stuck in my butt over and over again as well as several other shots I had to give myself or the countless times I had to give blood, I have no fear of needles what so ever. It all boils down to the fact that this vaccine has been rushed and not tested well enough to even consider putting in my body. Nor am I going to be forced to put it in my body to cruise. These cruiselines are not going to force you to have this vaccine to be able to be on their ship and spend your money with them! 

15 hours ago, Travelicious said:

And perhaps this section explains it even more thoroughly:  "We have been harassed with phone calls from the local health department trying to do contract tracing, which is a joke because there is NO WAY to know where anyone picked up anything! Needless to say, we have not answered any of their calls or messages."

Your point?

[MrsKC08]

3 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

😖

Care to explain? You quoted me but have nothing to add but an emoji? LOL

[MsTabbyKats]

21 minutes ago, lucywestie said:

The selfishness and shortsightedness of some on this post is amazing. Lets put things into perspective. Grocery stores are essential. Cruising isn't. According to online figures 28 million people cruised in 2018. The world population currently stands at approximately 7.8 billion which puts cruisers at about .3% of the population.

The UN World Tourism Organisation puts people that travel in a year as approximately 1.4 billion people who travel. That would put cruisers at only approximately 2% of world travelers.

 

So, cruising is not essential. It may support other industries but it still isn't essential. Until there is a safe and readily available vaccine EVERYBODY should be doing their part. Whether its wearing a mask, washing your hands more frequently, limiting your exposure to crowds and other people. If it means not traveling then so be it. I have cancelled two trips this year and had lots of other events cancelled on me because of the closure of sporting events and theatre's. Was I upset? Sure. Did I put on my big boy pants and realise that its for the good of everyone, yup. But elsewhere on all sorts of forums and especially on CC I see people throwing these little tantrums and its ridiculous. They need to give their heads a shake.

 

The people who say they are just going to do what they wish because basically "its my right" are outright selfish. Maybe when their relatives start dying they might think twice about it but I doubt it. 

Best post, and most accurate post on this entire forum since March!

[vswan]

This virus is spreading like wildfire in most areas of the US. I can't see any cruise line welcoming passengers onboard any time soon. Testing helps, but obviously is not catching everything. The vaccine will help, but again will not catch everything. Masking, hand washing, cleaning measures on the ship will also not catch everything. That's not to say that all of these things will not help at least in some measure.

 

I personally would feel more comfortable getting on a cruise ship where all of the passengers have been vaccinated. Know that there is still a risk, but I would take a 5% risk over a possible 100% risk. Each of us needs to do what we feel comfortable doing. That may limit your choices to cruise or not cruise. If vaccination is required and you choose not to vaccinate, then you don't cruise. If vaccination is available but not required then I don't cruise. One thing that may help is more, easily accessible treatment options.

 

Another thing to consider. If I was 95 and living in a nursing home I would want to see my relatives even if it put me at risk. Life is only so long and living an extra year or two without doing what I wanted to do would not be the way I want to live my final years - I've had this discussion with my 84 year old mother. The problem with this virus is that these decisions not only affect me, they affect others I may come in contact with. I can take all the precautions I want, but when I enter a grocery store with someone without a mask they are putting not only themselves but me in danger.

[pcakes122]

Availability of vaccines should not impact cruising.  Whether people are vaccinated or not, or whether the vaccine works or not, does not mean there won't be Covid on a cruise ship.

 

What you want is a reliable TREATMENT.  You want to know that IF - I mean WHEN - there is a Covid case on a ship, that there is a reliable treatment to prevent that person (and anyone they infected) from dying.

 

Anything else is just a false sense of security.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

I get all of that .... it’s not 100% effective . Im just saying that it will be required for everyone .... of course there are still risks and percentages. Letting someone on board who refuses the vaccine. They go into a port on a cruise and catch Covid from a local on an island, port, or wherever .... they bring it back on board. You know what I’m getting at. 

Had this debate ( vaccine required) on Carnival board this morning.IF it does become a requirement to sail the cruise lines are looking at spring before it's available to general public.

 

Not sure the cruise lines will want to wait that long. So the risk factor increases for cruise lines, pax and crew. Can they afford taking the chance?

Ugly situation!

[FLcruisergrl]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:43 AM, oracer said:

You should not be allowed on a cruise ship UNTIL you have been tested and UNTIL you have proof of having taken the vaccine.   Also cruise ships should not be allowed to port unless they have a private island and all workers on that island have the same standards.   I can not see going to an island (Caribbean) unless they have the same standards, even escorted excursions.

 

I think the Barbados cruise ship showed that testing alone doesn't work.

Thank you for sharing your OPINION. 

[hamrag]

1 hour ago, MrsKC08 said:

...These cruiselines are not going to force you to have this vaccine to be able to be on their ship and spend your money with them!.....

 

Evidence?

[FLcruisergrl]

18 hours ago, yankees111 said:

Cruising will not resume until a majority of Americans have been vaccinated. Cruise lines will not allow you onboard their ship without proof of immunization. If you do not want to be vaccinated that is your choice but then no cruise for you. Plain and simple indeed.

Wow. You speak with such certainty. Are you a policy maker or clairvoyant?

[SpainAlien]

MSC have been cruising out of Italy with EU citizens onboard for a few months now and not one cruise has had to turn around, there have been zero outbreaks onboard despite not having a vaccine 

[crystalaziza]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:43 AM, oracer said:

You should not be allowed on a cruise ship UNTIL you have been tested and UNTIL you have proof of having taken the vaccine.   Also cruise ships should not be allowed to port unless they have a private island and all workers on that island have the same standards.   I can not see going to an island (Caribbean) unless they have the same standards, even escorted excursions.

 

I think the Barbados cruise ship showed that testing alone doesn't work.

Being tested is one thing and having the vaccine is another. I will submit to a test, but will not to a vaccine! When we discover in 3.8 years from now people who had the vaccine start growing extra limbs and loosing ears and noses. Sorry, not for me!! It happens. Been on Metformin for years & been recalled for causing cancer! Wonderful

[tallnthensome]

1 hour ago, MrsKC08 said:

This is really comical. You do realize that those not wanting to get this vaccine has NOTHING to do with someone being scared of needles. As a woman who did several rounds of IVF treatment and had to have an IM needle (22 gauge) stuck in my butt over and over again as well as several other shots I had to give myself or the countless times I had to give blood, I have no fear of needles what so ever. It all boils down to the fact that this vaccine has been rushed and not tested well enough to even consider putting in my body. Nor am I going to be forced to put it in my body to cruise. These cruiselines are not going to force you to have this vaccine to be able to be on their ship and spend your money with them! 

Your point?

The lines can’t force you to get the vaccine, that’s for sure. You just won’t be allowed on that’s all. They will not take the risk that is too large to let you on unvaccinated just to get a grand or two out of you .....  not worth it to them. If there is enough demand for cruising there will be enough people who will get the vaccine and will get onboard in your place . If you’re too scared to get a vaccine it’s you that should stay home instead of being selfish and putting everyone else at risk. You're the passenger they don’t want. Cruising wasn’t likely to start until about April anyhow and that would be four months for people to start getting vaccinated. The CDC may even have something to have the lines require it . Face it, you’re out without it. 

[Trimone]

Don’t you people take vaccinations when you travel to Asia, South America, Middle East? 
We always get WHO updates at doctors for every country we are about to visit, and vaccinate accordingly.

[Trimone]

2 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

The lines can’t force you to get the vaccine, that’s for sure. You just won’t be allowed on that’s all. They will not take the risk that is too large to let you on unvaccinated just to get a grand or two out of you .....  not worth it to them. If there is enough demand for cruising there will be enough people who will get the vaccine and will get onboard in your place . If you’re too scared to get a vaccine it’s you that should stay home instead of being selfish and putting everyone else at risk. You're the passenger they don’t want. Cruising wasn’t likely to start until about April anyhow and that would be four months for people to start getting vaccinated. The CDC may even have something to have the lines require it . Face it, you’re out without it. 

I won’t travel on any ships that don’t enforce vaccination against Covid-19.

[tallnthensome]

3 minutes ago, Trimone said:

I won’t travel on any ships that don’t enforce vaccination against Covid-19.

See, good answer . You have that aspect as well. Having one person like MrsKC above could keep thousands of others from cruising like you said. They won’t without a vaccine mandate. They aren’t letting MRS KC on without a vaccine because taking her thousand dollars could cost them millions. Many won’t go if this is allowed even for one person. 

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, FLcruisergrl said:

Thank you for sharing your OPINION. 

Isn't it amazing how many people on this website think that their opinion = FACT? If I owned a website where people were allowed to interact like this, I'd make one of the Terms & Conditions that opinions had to be phrased as such, in order to distinguish them from facts, and that failure to do so would result in warnings and, ultimately, a permanent ban. I continue to be amazed how many people can state obvious opinions as though they were incontrovertible facts. Things like "there will be no more cruising for 2020," or "all of the cruise lines will be out of business" or "no one will allow you to cruise without proof of a vaccine." What ridiculous assertions, and yet rarely are they accompanied by a qualifier such as "Maybe I'm wrong about this" or "this is just my opinion." Even if people DO mean that their pronouncements or predictions are solely opinions, HOW ARE WE TO KNOW? Are we just supposed to guess? Of course, we all know that it's highly unlikely that the heads of the major cruise lines are going to take their cues from random people on websites. I'd just say to those who think there will be no cruising without a vaccine, that's news to Tui and MSC that have ferried 1,000s of passengers since August WITHOUT A VACCINE and no outbreaks. I for one am ready to cruise now and although this is just an opinion, (see how that works?) I doubt it will be a requirement for every cruise from here on out.

[MrsKC08]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

You just won’t be allowed on that’s all. They will not take the risk that is too large to let you on unvaccinated just to get a grand or two out of you .....  not worth it to them. If there is enough demand for cruising there will be enough people who will get the vaccine and will get onboard in your place . If you’re too scared to get a vaccine it’s you that should stay home instead of being selfish and putting everyone else at risk. You're the passenger they don’t want. Cruising wasn’t likely to start until about April anyhow and that would be four months for people to start getting vaccinated. The CDC may even have something to have the lines require it . Face it, you’re out without it. 

I can almost with full certainty tell you that a vaccine will not be required. The mortality rate of Covid does not warrant a requirement for a vaccine to cruise, fly, travel, etc. Maybe some people should step away from the TV, do some actual research. Talk to those in the medical field (I have two family members in the medical field), and talk to some people that actually have some logical information...FACTUAL information about this virus, past viruses, etc.

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

See, good answer . You have that aspect as well. Having one person like MrsKC above could keep thousands of others from cruising like you said. They won’t without a vaccine mandate. They aren’t letting MRS KC on without a vaccine because taking her thousand dollars could cost them millions. Many won’t go if this is allowed even for one person. 

I just can't with you. Your OPINION is simply that. Maybe you will decide not to cruise when you see that we won't be required to have a vaccine to sail. 😉 

[Trimone]

11 minutes ago, MrsKC08 said:

I can almost with full certainty tell you that a vaccine will not be required. The mortality rate of Covid does not warrant a requirement for a vaccine to cruise, fly, travel, etc. Maybe some people should step away from the TV, do some actual research. Talk to those in the medical field (I have two family members in the medical field), and talk to some people that actually have some logical information...FACTUAL information about this virus, past viruses, etc.

I just can't with you. Your OPINION is simply that. Maybe you will decide not to cruise when you see that we won't be required to have a vaccine to sail. 😉 

Facts :  NOVEMBER 17, 2020, 4:00 AM

Tennessee Hospital Chief: Sick Nurses And A Shortage Of Contractors Are Limiting Capacity

By Blake Farmer

Tennessee hospitals are calling off elective procedures again, doubling up hospital rooms and converting recovery rooms into intensive care units, according to the Tennessee Hospital Association. These changes come as hospitals are seeing twice as many patients with COVID-19 as they were in early October, surpassing 1,800 current hospitalizations on Monday

[PTC DAWG]

13 minutes ago, MrsKC08 said:

I can almost with full certainty tell you that a vaccine will not be required. The mortality rate of Covid does not warrant a requirement for a vaccine to cruise, fly, travel, etc. Maybe some people should step away from the TV, do some actual research. Talk to those in the medical field (I have two family members in the medical field), and talk to some people that actually have some logical information...FACTUAL information about this virus, past viruses, etc

This I agree totally with.