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On the subject of the vaccination, I note that the number of vaccines administered has dropped over the last three days.

 

I would expect a dip at the weekends, so I’m expecting a significant increase in the figures reported today.

 

They are still adamant that the are going give one dose to all over 70s by 15th February, so the figures need to be going up significantly each day if this is to be achieved. 

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6 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Thanks Jane, advice will always be questionable and science and techniques will always change, you only need to consider the advice that the government advisors give out, a lot of them are experts in their field but have totally opposing views. I think on the whole your views would be better placed than mine and most other people on here. We still have people who think covid isn't real and feel they can still do as they like, if it were me I would make them work in the hospitals and mortuaries, and of course they wouldn't need expensive PPE because it isn't real. Rant over, sorry.

Totally agree Phil.  Even an hour in ICU would focus their minds. As for the mortuaries, many  makeshift buildings are being erected to house the dead because the standard mortuary buildings can no longer cope. That's the grim reality.  Nothing will change their minds though - my rant over too. J.

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25 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes, just not sure they should be gambling!

They are taking their guidance from Sage and the current indication from the available stats that after 21 days the biontech vaccine achieves a high enough level of protection to extend the timing of the 2nd dose.

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1 minute ago, Beckett said:

Totally agree Phil.  Even an hour in ICU would focus their minds. As for the mortuaries, many  makeshift buildings are being erected to house the dead because the standard mortuary buildings can no longer cope. That's the grim reality.  Nothing will change their minds though - my rant over too. J.

Saying that is quite civizilized on the P&O section of these forums.  Best not to go to RCI.  Its a whole different country!

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4 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

Saying that is quite civizilized on the P&O section of these forums.  Best not to go to RCI.  Its a whole different country!

Now I have to look at RCI to compare!  J.x

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Just now, yorkshirephil said:

I wouldn't advise it Jane, it will either upset you or make your blood boil.

Totally agree, the anti-vac non covid believers are out in force and not taking kindly to suggestions they may just be wrong.

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I have good news! My father (82j received his appointment for the first jab by post this morning. It’s 30 miles away and will take place on the 29th and I’ll drive him there. He will have to make an appointment for his second jab there too. Then just before lunch, the local surgery phoned my mother (75-80 group) to make an appointment for her first jab on the ..... 29th! But hers will be done at the local surgery. She was also given a date for her second jab - second week of April. When she asked if my father could also have his done there, the answer was no as they’re doing all the over 80s in the hub 30 miles away. They were really sorry but it was out their hands. It’s not really a problem but it might well be for some folks. 

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18 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It's looking increasingly like a very risky gamble given the latest evidence from Israel, suggesting that one dose may not provide adequate protection against Covid-19.

 

It's reported in today's Times, which says that health officials have said they will look “very carefully” at the plan to delay second vaccine doses. 

 

Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, said the government would “just need to keep measuring the numbers” to ensure that a single dose offered reasonable protection. He also said it was monitoring how many inoculated people were taken to hospital with the virus.

 

I hope this doesn't backfire.

 

 


Sir Patrick Vallance was interviewed on Sky News this morning and was specifically asked about the Israeli comments. He said that he thought that the 33% that they are quoting relates to average protection from day 1 (when protection is zero) rather than from day 10 when antibodies start to kick in. He said that if you only use the period from when antibodies start to build up then that figure jumps to 70%. Can’t say that I fully understand all of this, as I’ve never fully grasped the whole ‘efficacy’ thing, even though it’s been explained to me, so just relaying the comments for those who may have missed it!

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6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Anti-vac is tolerated in any of these forums?!!!

Remembering the innocuous stuff that's been removed over the years one would hope not, but...

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11 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

I have good news! My father (82j received his appointment for the first jab by post this morning. It’s 30 miles away and will take place on the 29th and I’ll drive him there

Make sure you take the letter with you in case you get stopped during the 30 mile car journey. I can imagine that going on.

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11 minutes ago, Selbourne said:


Sir Patrick Vallance was interviewed on Sky News this morning and was specifically asked about the Israeli comments. He said that he thought that the 33% that they are quoting relates to average protection from day 1 (when protection is zero) rather than from day 10 when antibodies start to kick in. He said that if you only use the period from when antibodies start to build up then that figure jumps to 70%. Can’t say that I fully understand all of this, as I’ve never fully grasped the whole ‘efficacy’ thing, even though it’s been explained to me, so just relaying the comments for those who may have missed it!

This sheds a different light on it, a bit long but interesting, I wonder if the sky news story was derived from this?

TEL AVIV -- Early data from Israel suggests Covid-19 infection rates began to decrease among a group of vaccine recipients two weeks after they received the first shot of Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE's vaccine, offering important insights to other countries as they roll out their own campaigns.

The small country -- whose roughly nine million population is about the size of New York City's -- has vaccinated nearly a fourth of its population in just under a month, the first country to hit that mark as it fights an upsurge in new infections.

Israel's largest health-care provider, Clalit Health Services, compared test positivity rates among 200,000 people over 60 who received the vaccine with 200,000 that didn't. Until day 14, there was little difference between the two groups. But after that, the data showed a 33% fall in infection rates among those who had already been vaccinated compared with those who hadn't.

Clalit noted that the number of people infected was statistically significant, but said it wouldn't release final numbers until its study is published.

Pfizer says people must receive both doses of the vaccine for it to be fully effective. In Pfizer's trials, the vaccine was shown to take about 12 days before it started to protect people.

The Clalit study suggests that the first dose could reduce infections among those vaccinated as early as two weeks after injection.

While Pfizer's research was based on people who had symptomatic Covid-19 and a positive lab test, Clalit's data analysis was based on Covid-19 tests provided both to people who felt symptoms and to those who didn't, such as people who came into contact with others who had Covid-19, according to Ran Balicer, chief innovation officer at the Israeli health-care provider.

Israel, like many other countries, has given priority to those over 60 in the first stage of its vaccination drive, making the group the best fit for study, said Mr. Balicer, who is also chairman of Israel's national advisory team on Covid policy. Nearly three out of four people in this age group have received the first dose of the vaccine since Israel's campaign began on Dec. 20.

Israel has committed to providing Pfizer with real-time data about their vaccine, from effectiveness to side effects, which Israeli officials said helped it procure early shipments from the vaccine maker.

Separately, Israel's Health Ministry published data about side effects from the vaccine, saying they were similar in frequency and character to other vaccinations given to its people.

Of the 1.7 million who were vaccinated by the time the report was published, just 1,127, or 0.06%, reported side effects, which included weakness, headaches, dizziness and fever as well as pain or swelling at the site of the shot. So far 15 people needed to be hospitalized after the shot, mostly due to pre-existing conditions.

Even as Israel accelerates the vaccine's rollout, aiming to inoculate the majority of its population by March, its Health Ministry officials warned that people must still be vigilant.

Israel has hit a pandemic peak in recent days at an average of over 9,000 new daily infections and is averaging between 40 and 50 deaths a day. As of Thursday morning, 1,842 patients with coronavirus were hospitalized, of which 1,095 were in critical condition. Israel last month imposed a third lockdown to contain the new surge in infections.

Among those who are critically ill, 17% of them have already received their first doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Israeli health officials say the latest surge can be explained by the fact that much of the population remains unvaccinated. People in ultra-Orthodox and Arab communities that are hardest hit aren't taking the shots as much as those in other communities and the spread of the virus has increased since the detection of the new U.K. coronavirus variant, health officials say.

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41 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Didn't eat out to help out finish in August, when from memory death rates were very low. So I think that trying to implicate this as a major factor in our high death rate seems rather like an own goal.

It was one of the scientists who linked the two and made the comment about eating out to help the virus. His view was that all the additional indoor socialisation during that period just spread the virus, which started to emerge a week or two later and led to the huge spread that later took off. The figures bear that out.

 

Their view was that had we not loosened up too soon, we wouldn't be needing the current lockdown because infections wouldn't have rocketed out of all control. 

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57 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Didn't eat out to help out finish in August, when from memory death rates were very low. So I think that trying to implicate this as a major factor in our high death rate seems rather like an own goal.

Eat out to help out was continued throughout September by some Restaurants certainly in York to my knowledge.

 

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6 minutes ago, batholiver said:

It was one of the scientists who linked the two and made the comment about eating out to help the virus. His view was that all the additional indoor socialisation during that period just spread the virus, which started to emerge a week or two later and led to the huge spread that later took off. The figures bear that out.

 

Their view was that had we not loosened up too soon, we wouldn't be needing the current lockdown because infections wouldn't have rocketed out of all control. 

If you look at the historic data, the rapid increase in cases took place in October, and given that "Eat Out" finished in August, it is a bit of a leap to directly link the two. I felt that in this particular case the expert was trying to find a causal link that was not there, for the purposes of his own agenda.

Given the timing of the Octiber increase,  one could argue that the real cause of the increase was the start of the new academic year in schools and colleges.  .

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101947/coronavirus-cases-development-uk/

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8 minutes ago, batholiver said:

It was one of the scientists who linked the two and made the comment about eating out to help the virus. His view was that all the additional indoor socialisation during that period just spread the virus, which started to emerge a week or two later and led to the huge spread that later took off. The figures bear that out.

 

Their view was that had we not loosened up too soon, we wouldn't be needing the current lockdown because infections wouldn't have rocketed out of all control. 

Eat out to help out was only one small piece of the jigsaw, life almost returned to normal during summer when pubs, shops, restaurants and other social venues opened plus we were allowed to go on holiday, bringing back a new strain of the virus from Spain, which was intimated by other experts to be one of the main causes of the following spread..

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2 minutes ago, Bloodaxe said:

Eat out to help out was continued throughout September by some Restaurants certainly in York to my knowledge.

 

A couple of places in Sarfend did as well.  Wetherspoons had a watered down version of up it until November I think

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2 minutes ago, Bloodaxe said:

Eat out to help out was continued throughout September by some Restaurants certainly in York to my knowledge.

 

Yes, but on a much lesser level than in August, and, as I have just mentioned, the return to school/university was probably a greater factor.

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My friend who is 84 had her jab in Richmond and has a date for her next one.  My husband had his last week and has no date for a second one.  Strange how some give a date and others do not.

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18 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Yes, but on a much lesser level than in August, and, as I have just mentioned, the return to school/university was probably a greater factor.

Schools and universities probably were a greater factor, but rather less optional than the Eat Out to Help Out scheme.

 

Warwick University has some pretty clear research linking this scheme with the serious problems being faced now.
 

‘Eat Out to Help Out’ scheme drove new COVID-19 infections up by between 8 and 17%, new research finds.

 

Friday 30 Oct 2020

 

The government initiative, which cost around £500 million, caused a significant rise in new infections in August and early September accelerating the pandemic into its current second wave. The economic benefits of the scheme, meanwhile, were short-lived.

 

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/30-10-20-eat_out_to_help_out_scheme_drove_new_covid_19_infections_up_by_between_8_and_17_new_research_finds

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25 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Eat out to help out was only one small piece of the jigsaw, life almost returned to normal during summer when pubs, shops, restaurants and other social venues opened plus we were allowed to go on holiday, bringing back a new strain of the virus from Spain, which was intimated by other experts to be one of the main causes of the following spread..

I don't know the agenda that the TV companies have. When I commissioned experts, the first question that they often asked was " what would you like me to say "🤔

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Just received a letter for Frank's vaccination from the NHS. Filled the form in online for the nearest centre. Morley Leeds, approx50 miles round trip. He says he'll wait until our  local GP contacts him as it said on the letter.

Avril

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Just now, Adawn47 said:

Just received a letter for Frank's vaccination from the NHS. Filled the form in online for the nearest centre. Morley Leeds, approx50 miles round trip. He says he'll wait until our  local GP contacts him as it said on the letter.

Avril

Hi Avril. If you are concerned about your husband getting his vaccine and want to go to Leeds I will be happy to pick him up and take him, the same applies to you.

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2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

But SAGA have now for want of a better term put a line in the sand so to speak in the same way Qantas have on the flights. The others will probably have to fall into line I imagine.

 

Have they said how "vaccine proof" is to be shown. My father his the little card showing name of vaccine (pfizer) and the date of his first shot. He has had second shot on time but they never signed his card the second time.

Just say documentary evidence  , but stresses that we have t have both shots ( if required)

so maybe  we should look out for getting evidence of the second shot. Could be needed

for flights as well as cruises alond with who knows what in the future.

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