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Silver Seas and Azamara under one roof...


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With the addition of Silver Seas to the RCL quiver it seems Azamara (I love Azamara..40 cruises) may become redundant and expensive to operate.  Tough times at Corporate HQ I am sure.  Fingers crossed..But Azamara staff on Silver Seas beautiful ships, not an altogether bad idea.  Must keep Azamara staff==they are the best!  BTW Good-Bye to Phillip Herbert--great person.

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1 hour ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I keep reading prophecies like this. Fact is that Azamara and Silversea compete in a different marketplace so why would they merge them?  I don't understand the logic. 

 

Phil 

 

Simple arithmetic, if they cannot survive by sailing all lines! Not beyond our imagination that a hybrid variant with the best features of both could emerge?

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My concern is that RCG now has no premium lines, but has three  luxury lines, Silversea, Azamara, and Celebrity, (or so Lisa wants to portray Celebrity???)  With the price increases on Celebrity, I just booked an 11-night cruise on Silversea for a significant number of $ less  per night.  I looked at Azamara, but with no itinerary, in the time frame, I wanted. I will continue to look at Azamara. Currently, since the “upgrade of Celebrity prices, “ their cruises  are within my budget

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9 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

Simple arithmetic, if they cannot survive by sailing all lines! Not beyond our imagination that a hybrid variant with the best features of both could emerge?

A hybrid of Azamara and Silversea wouldn't interest me and I suspect others would feel the same. And then of course how much do you charge for this hybrid?  Too much and Azamara clients are driven off. Too little and and Silversea clients are scared away. 

 

Sounds a great idea, but I don't think it's that simple. 

 

Phil 

Edited by excitedofharpenden
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2 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

A hybrid of Azamara and Silversea wouldn't interest me and I suspect others would feel the same. And then of course how much do you charge for this hybrid?  Too much and Azamara clients are driven off. Too little and and Silversea clients are scared away. 

 

Sounds a great idea, but I don't think it's that simple. 

 

Phil 

 

1 hour ago, Cruiser6270 said:

Azamara is more than just 3 ships, it's a well established brand with it's own values, distinct onboard experience and a strong loyal following. Killing that off and trying to shoe-horn that into Siversea would be an odd move. 

 

I am NOT saying any of it is simple or that these rumours/suggestions would fit for everyone, rather that in the post-COVID-19 era the top 3 have an opportunity to consolidate.

 

There is little in cruising brands that could be considered indispensable, and I believe they will each evaluate in depth and consolidate in some form.Obvious candidates are older vessels, which have inordinate upkeep and maintenance costs. It's going to upset some folks....ultimately, it's all about the mighty $$'s and shareholder value!

Edited by hamrag
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I suppose at the end of the day it will all depend on the bottom line, if post COVID Azamara can fill their ships at prices that provide the group with a profit it’s fairly safe. If not then who knows how the corporate mind will view the situation, the Celebrity changes shows loyalty to existing customers is very low on their priority list.

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On my last Azamara cruise, there was a Celebrity ship docked next to us in Sitka.  At the Azamara repeaters party, Philip kept referring to it as our big sister.  It was overwhelming how many times they said it. It left me wondering if Azamara and Celebrity were going to merge. Now that Celebrity is including drinks, tips, and internet, it makes me wonder again if they are joining.  

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Silver Seas won’t be a good substitute for Celebrity or Azamara.   I understand they do have a dress code and expect you to come to dinner in something other than jeans.    Check the dress code especially if you don’t want to dress for dinner before you book.   RCI has also not allowed us to carry our points to Silver Seas.

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On 11/24/2020 at 11:58 PM, Covepointcruiser said:

Silver Seas won’t be a good substitute for Celebrity or Azamara.   I understand they do have a dress code and expect you to come to dinner in something other than jeans.    Check the dress code especially if you don’t want to dress for dinner before you book.   RCI has also not allowed us to carry our points to Silver Seas.

Just high jacking this thread ( I'm a silversea girl ) first can I correct the people who use two words for silversea( is not silver seas ) I have never sailed azamara  so can't comment on dress code but I would say that yes silversea does have a dress code ( not everyone conforms to) but my husband & I do like to dress up  and there is no such thing as a casual night for us.... If it's not your thing then yes think carefully!!! There are restaurants you can go causal but never see jeans anywhere on board after 6pm !!

We have been crusing since 1990 with over 45 cruises first of many with royal Caribbean . P& O Cunard then experienced our first luxury cruise in 2005 with silversea & have never looked back😃, also enjoy crystal & regent 

There all have there own style it's just a question of whats best for you... Fingers crossed we will be back on the high seas very soon 🚢🙏 keep safe

 

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On 11/24/2020 at 7:49 AM, excitedofharpenden said:

A hybrid of Azamara and Silversea wouldn't interest me and I suspect others would feel the same. And then of course how much do you charge for this hybrid?  (Too much and Azamara clients are driven off. Too little and and Silversea clients are scared away. )

 

Sounds a great idea, but I don't think it's that simple. 

 

Phil 

As a silversea girl I agree with your comment

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Celebrity claims "luxury" just to satisfy their loyal guests.  That doesn't mean they'll actually deliver a luxury experience. 

 

Personally I think it's hard to provide luxury on large ships - the guest to crew ratio doesn't support it.  Including drinks and wifi doesn't equate to luxury, it just makes them all inclusive.   There are plenty of all inclusive land resorts that are anything but luxurious.   Unless they plan to add more crew it will be very difficult to improve service level.

 

Celebrity will remain upscale over Royal.  All inclusive upscale.  The new "Always In" just distinguishes them from Royal Caribbean International.  

 

Celebrity would love nothing more than buying more new Edge class ships with around 3,000 guests.  They still want to be mass market but providing an upscale product that attracts the type of cruiser that wants to spend a little more than entry level prices (Royal Caribbean International) without spending true luxury rates.  That is their target market. 

 

Calling the line luxury doesn't make the line luxury, it just appeals to their target audience.

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7 hours ago, twangster said:

Celebrity claims "luxury" just to satisfy their loyal guests.  That doesn't mean they'll actually deliver a luxury experience. 

 

Personally I think it's hard to provide luxury on large ships - the guest to crew ratio doesn't support it.  Including drinks and wifi doesn't equate to luxury, it just makes them all inclusive.   There are plenty of all inclusive land resorts that are anything but luxurious.   Unless they plan to add more crew it will be very difficult to improve service level.

 

Celebrity will remain upscale over Royal.  All inclusive upscale.  The new "Always In" just distinguishes them from Royal Caribbean International.  

 

Celebrity would love nothing more than buying more new Edge class ships with around 3,000 guests.  They still want to be mass market but providing an upscale product that attracts the type of cruiser that wants to spend a little more than entry level prices (Royal Caribbean International) without spending true luxury rates.  That is their target market. 

 

Calling the line luxury doesn't make the line luxury, it just appeals to their target audience.

I totally agree with everything you say. As for Azamara, they will never be luxury or compete with true luxury products like Silversea or Seabourn. For a start, the cabins aren't big enough. They have a very nicely placed premium product though. 

 

Phil 

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10 hours ago, twangster said:

....Personally I think it's hard to provide luxury on large ships - the guest to crew ratio doesn't support it.  Including drinks and wifi doesn't equate to luxury, it just makes them all inclusive.   There are plenty of all inclusive land resorts that are anything but luxurious.   Unless they plan to add more crew it will be very difficult to improve service level....

 

I agree entirely, although MSC have a very interesting 'luxury' offering called Yacht Club which we have sailed on 3 occasions. It is an enclave i.e. a small ship within a large ship. The Yacht Club area is refined, extremely spacious with excellent service levels. The other 'attraction' for us is that the big ship experience beckons in the evenings for theatre and small band singing entertainment when desired....and then we retreat again into the amazing Yacht Club.

 

That said, having sailed Azamara (premium market) and Crystal (luxury market), the Yacht Club experience is definitely not in the luxury category but is above Azamara....so it sits somewhere between the two. We enjoy it so much that, where itinerary suits, MSC Yacht Club will often be our future cruise of choice.

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It's too bad that SILVERSEA didnt remain a separate entity.  I was looking forward to sailing on their ships.  Now that RCCL has taken over I suspect the  usual cost  & staff cuts will take place.  The overall  quality of the product is the primary loser.

I only sailed RCCL once & that was enough. I like the Azamara product & itineraries. The size of the ship is nice, service, food are very good.

I enjoy MSC product but as far as luxury unless you book in YACHT CLUB you are on a ship w thousands of other passengers.  I found the service, food in my midship balcony cabins quite nice & a good value.  I'd rather spend the $$$ for  a YACHT CLUB accomodation on a Silversea cabin or a land vacation.

SEABOURN is a good example of consolidation...the product was never the same after CARNIVORE  bought the line.

As far as Celebrity being billed as a luxury ...I think not.

 

Unfortunately the Corporate bean counters have turned most of the industry into a business that slogan should be:

 

If you cant dazzle them w your brilliance ....baffle them w your B.S.

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7 hours ago, Rotterdam said:

SEABOURN is a good example of consolidation...the product was never the same after CARNIVORE  bought the line.

 

Apologies for taking a hatchet to the bulk of your very valid in all areas post . . . but . . . quite apart from all else, I absolutely agree with the above and laughed out loud at your name for the purchaser.

 

Years ago we were regular cruisers on the lovely 200 passenger ships that were sold off to Windstar.

Subsequently we had one cruise on a new Seabourn ship and the experience was not enjoyable to say the least . . . .

 

Fortunately we then discovered Azamara 🥰

Now hoping for an effective vaccine very soon, so we can return to our cruising family!

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On 12/4/2020 at 3:14 AM, uktog said:

Trouble with all of this is spin doctors can’t accept nice they have to embellish some brands to what they are not 


Sometimes the “spin doctors” can accept “nice”. It’s their clients who want to “embellish”.

 

In fact, often a Communications Officer has to rather forcefully suggest that the message the client wants to broadcast may not stand up to scrutiny. This may not be a popular viewpoint in the office.

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