International Travelers May Need to get Virus Vaccinations

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, Mary229 said:

First let me state again, I will get the vaccine, I am pro-vaccine, I am flabbergasted by the governors who have shunned the vaccine, I don't think this is political except for those who want power. 

 

I don't think the low vaccination rates among 20 to 50 year olds has anything to do with a political statement, a belief, an ideology etc.....  It is about personal risk assessment.  Those younger folks just don't see themselves as vulnerable.   Unless they are mandated by their workplace to get one then the flu vaccination rates are our model. And importantly this is a global issue.  If ending transmission is your preferred outcome then remember this is not a first world problem exclusively and  what 330 million people in the US do is truly not significant. I personally don't think that is the goal of world public health organizations.  I think they simply want to limit the load on the healthcare system and the individual be damned.  

 

Here we sit the upper 10% of North America, upper 1% of world wide wealth,  thinking we know what should be done.  

Hmmm.  Limiting the load on the healthcare system and protecting the individual is not mutually exclusive.    Having worked in the healthcare system I can assure you that folks get pretty upset when they must lay on a hard gurney for hours or longer while the hospital waits for a room to open up...or is looking for another hospital to accept that patient and then arranging transportation (at the patients expense).  This is now the reality in some parts of the country.  

 

I also think few healthcare officials and physicians who are now dealing with COVID in the USA are not overly concerned about what is happening in the rest of the world.  When you are dealing with patients your concerns are about your patients....not the State of the earth.  Most public health officials simply deal with the "here and now" while also trying to plan for short term future.  While politicians do complicate everything, healthcare professionals must deal with the reality that faces them on a daily basis.  Trust me that when one's task is to find beds for waiting patients, and one must start calling around to other hospitals to find those beds.....you are not thinking about the world public health organizations.  Healthcare is truly personal.

 

Hank

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

As long as its health and/or safety related some restrictions are allowed.

Exactly!

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Hmmm.  Limiting the load on the healthcare system and protecting the individual is not mutually exclusive.    Having worked in the healthcare system I can assure you that folks get pretty upset when they must lay on a hard gurney for hours or longer while the hospital waits for a room to open up...or is looking for another hospital to accept that patient and then arranging transportation (at the patients expense).  This is now the reality in some parts of the country.  

 

I also think few healthcare officials and physicians who are now dealing with COVID in the USA are not overly concerned about what is happening in the rest of the world.  When you are dealing with patients your concerns are about your patients....not the State of the earth.  Most public health officials simply deal with the "here and now" while also trying to plan for short term future.  While politicians do complicate everything, healthcare professionals must deal with the reality that faces them on a daily basis.  Trust me that when one's task is to find beds for waiting patients, and one must start calling around to other hospitals to find those beds.....you are not thinking about the world public health organizations.  Healthcare is truly personal.

 

Hank

Perhaps I should clarify.  I am not talking about healthcare professionals I am talking about the Public Health Organizations composed of bureaucrats that are setting guidelines not rendering aide.  I doubt very seriously anyone in the upper echelon of CDC, WHO, UNESCO is going to show up at your local hospital to help.  I doubt seriously they have even walked into a hospital since this crisis began.  To be generous those folks' job is to manage the pandemic not the patient.  

Edited December 7, 2020 by Mary229

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Perhaps I should clarify.  I am not talking about healthcare professionals I am talking about the Public Health Organizations composed of bureaucrats that are setting guidelines not rendering aide.  I doubt very seriously anyone in the upper echelon of CDC, WHO, UNESCO is going to show up at your local hospital to help.  I doubt seriously they have even walked into a hospital since this crisis began.  To be generous those folks' job is to manage the pandemic not the patient.  

I cannot speak for WHO or UNESCO neither of which has anything to do with the healthcare system in the US.  But the CDC has many hard working scientists and physicians (I met a few during my work with HIV/AIDS programs, and they do, indeed, go into hospitals, nursing homes and elsewhere when they are requested for consults and help.  In fact, when we returned home from Mexico (our winter home) in March there were several CDC medical staff all gowned-up at DFW just waiting to help and evaluate anyone who had symptoms.   After clearing immigration I went over and chatted with one of the CDC medical folks who was one of the few wearing a mask (he was fully outfitted in personal protective gear) to ask if he had any extra masks.  He joked that he could retire on the revenue if he had masks to sell.

 

Now what you say about the "Upper Echelon" is another matter.  They were always well above my pay grade.  But IMHO the CDC has done an awful job managing the COVID pandemic (just one person's opinion).  They have contradicted themselves on numerous occasions and put out some information which makes little sense and may have done more harm then good.  Even today, while there is good evidence that decent masks (N95- KN-95, some triple layer fabrics, etc) are a good thing this idea of using anything as a mask is ridiculous.  Virus particles can go through most of those single layer fabrics (worn by many) like a knife through butter.  Giving folks a false sense of security is not good management.

 

Hank

 

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I cannot speak for WHO or UNESCO neither of which has anything to do with the healthcare system in the US.  But the CDC has many hard working scientists and physicians (I met a few during my work with HIV/AIDS programs, and they do, indeed, go into hospitals, nursing homes and elsewhere when they are requested for consults and help.  In fact, when we returned home from Mexico (our winter home) in March there were several CDC medical staff all gowned-up at DFW just waiting to help and evaluate anyone who had symptoms.   After clearing immigration I went over and chatted with one of the CDC medical folks who was one of the few wearing a mask (he was fully outfitted in personal protective gear) to ask if he had any extra masks.  He joked that he could retire on the revenue if he had masks to sell.

 

Now what you say about the "Upper Echelon" is another matter.  They were always well above my pay grade.  But IMHO the CDC has done an awful job managing the COVID pandemic (just one person's opinion).  They have contradicted themselves on numerous occasions and put out some information which makes little sense and may have done more harm then good.  Even today, while there is good evidence that decent masks (N95- KN-95, some triple layer fabrics, etc) are a good thing this idea of using anything as a mask is ridiculous.  Virus particles can go through most of those single layer fabrics (worn by many) like a knife through butter.  Giving folks a false sense of security is not good management.

 

Hank

 

Agree 10000 % Hank 

 

 Cliff

[iancal]

It does not matter what any prospective traveler thinks.  

 

What matters for travelers is what conditions of passage airlines, cruise lines, etc. place on international travel and what conditions other countries place on visitors who enter those countries.

 

Everything is noise level.  If you want to fly, cruise, enter various foreign countries you will be required to comply.   Strictly binary.   

Edited December 7, 2020 by iancal

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, iancal said:

It does not matter what any prospective traveler thinks.  

 

What matters for travelers is what conditions of passage airlines, cruise lines, etc. place on international travel and what conditions other countries place on visitors who enter those countries.

 

Everything is noise level.  If you want to fly, cruise, enter various foreign countries you will be required to comply.   Strictly binary.   

Absolutely correct  . We do not get to choose  .We comply or don't travel 

[Harrylinden]

I plan on getting the vaccine as soon as I can! So no worries here for cruising! I know others feel different about the vaccine and that's their choice. I just know I WANT MY LIFE BACK!!!

[mcrcruiser]

Just saw on the internet some disturbing reports about the side effects of the vaccines  .It is all on www.highwire.com  

 

  Even though we are in our early 80s with underlying medical conditions & obviously high risk ,we are going to wait to see more results of how these vaccines act in reality when people are   injected 

[Lido - Lanai]

49 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just saw on the internet some disturbing reports about the side effects of the vaccines  .It is all on www.highwire.com  

I think you meant to say --- www.thehighwire.com

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, Lido - Lanai said:

I think you meant to say --- www.thehighwire.com

yes thanks 

[kazu]

53 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just saw on the internet some disturbing reports about the side effects of the vaccines  .It is all on www.highwire.com  

 

  Even though we are in our early 80s with underlying medical conditions & obviously high risk ,we are going to wait to see more results of how these vaccines act in reality when people are   injected 

 

I checked this website and apparently Bigtree is CEO of an anti vaccination group.   Screen shot below.

 

[mcrcruiser]

We had already been aware of side effects from information on these boards .We read that there had been cases of high temperatures 101 to 104  ,also chills ,shaking ,head aches  . Thus ,it seems to us that Thehighwire.com  broadcast is highlighting  how the actual tests were made  by Pfizer & Moderna  .  Placing caution before taking this vaccine   in our case is to wait .  There are many  American's also dubious about  these vaccines which have been rushed  ;where as it normally takes years to develop vaccines . We will also need to hear what the FDA says about them . The UK hurried their approval  vs a more intense FDA  

 

 We do hope ultimately that the vaccines  are safe to take  ;but ,right now we exercise caution   for ourselves  . We have been in place for 9 months now  & just shopping ,banks ie  trips with masks & shields over masks . Can't be too careful  .Thus ,a little while longer wont hurt . Our booked first cruise is not until Dec 5 ,2021  ;which is nearly one year from now  on Koningsdam  & it is a local San Diego port  so no flying involved . We are also anxious to be sailing again like so many others on these threads  .Behind the first cruise is our April 7 ,2022  Emerald Princess   from Auckland NZ to LA,23 night cruise  & then a Carnival Miracle cruise from SD to Hawaii .R/T Oct 15 ,2022 

[Lido deck main]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

I checked this website and apparently Bigtree is CEO of an anti vaccination group.   Screen shot below.

 

Thanks Kazu, there is always a back story isn't there.  It is good to do due diligence.  Getting accurate information is just a click away.  Thanks for highlighting this. I would get in line today if they would give me the vaccine, can't come soon enough.  We have taken this downtime and got our yellow fever vaccine and pneumonia 13.  We are going for our first of three rabies shots next week, and in the spring, hopefully the Covid 19 vaccine.

[bcummin]

I will trust the vaccine, but am willing to wait my turn.

I want to see nurses, doctors, first responders, teachers, etc. vaccinated first.  But that is not my decision to make.  When my turn comes, I will celebrate.

Barbara

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

We had already been aware of side effects from information on these boards .We read that there had been cases of high temperatures 101 to 104  ,also chills ,shaking ,head aches  . Thus ,it seems to us that Thehighwire.com  broadcast is highlighting  how the actual tests were made  by Pfizer & Moderna  .  Placing caution before taking this vaccine   in our case is to wait .  There are many  American's also dubious about  these vaccines which have been rushed  ;where as it normally takes years to develop vaccines . We will also need to hear what the FDA says about them . The UK hurried their approval  vs a more intense FDA  

 

 We do hope ultimately that the vaccines  are safe to take  ;but ,right now we exercise caution   for ourselves  . We have been in place for 9 months now  & just shopping ,banks ie  trips with masks & shields over masks . Can't be too careful  .Thus ,a little while longer wont hurt . Our booked first cruise is not until Dec 5 ,2021  ;which is nearly one year from now  on Koningsdam  & it is a local San Diego port  so no flying involved . We are also anxious to be sailing again like so many others on these threads  .Behind the first cruise is our April 7 ,2022  Emerald Princess   from Auckland NZ to LA,23 night cruise  & then a Carnival Miracle cruise from SD to Hawaii .R/T Oct 15 ,2022 

 

 

Publications like the one you originally cited do not present a balanced report. While they "highlight" side effects, they also forget to mention that these are RARE (which is very similar to the flu vaccine), and that most people experience only the type of milder side effects that are also commonly associated with the flu vaccine. 

 

From Business Insider:

 

Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine showed no safety concerns that could threaten an emergency authorization, regulators at the US Food and Drug Administration wrote in documents released Tuesday. The detailed data indicates Pfizer's shot is a highly effective and safe vaccine, based on a clinical trial of more than 40,000 participants. There were temporary side effects that are generally expected with most vaccines. Common side effects were pain at the injection site, fatigue, and headaches.

 

From the Daily Advantage (Pharma News):

 

Pfizer Inc. cleared the next hurdle in the race to get the company's Covid-19 vaccine approved for emergency use after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration released documents that raised no new issues about its safety or efficacy. 

[fatcat04]

Being middle aged, healthy, with no comorbidities we are low on the list and that is fine.  We trust our personal doctor's opinion and will consult him when our time comes. He is exceptionally well read and cautious and has been our family's doctor for 20 years. Same for the kids.  They will be even longer as children and pregnant women require extra trials. Their doctor told me as much months ago. Our moms and auntie will hopefully be much earlier and then I will breath so much easier. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by fatcat04

[KirkNC]

59 minutes ago, bcummin said:

I will trust the vaccine, but am willing to wait my turn.

I want to see nurses, doctors, first responders, teachers, etc. vaccinated first.  But that is not my decision to make.  When my turn comes, I will celebrate.

Barbara

Agreed, when our turn comes, we will get the jab.

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, Lido deck main said:

Thanks Kazu, there is always a back story isn't there.  It is good to do due diligence.  Getting accurate information is just a click away.  Thanks for highlighting this. I would get in line today if they would give me the vaccine, can't come soon enough.  We have taken this downtime and got our yellow fever vaccine and pneumonia 13.  We are going for our first of three rabies shots next week, and in the spring, hopefully the Covid 19 vaccine.

That web cast on TheHighwire.com   did say that 1500 of those who received the shots had side effects . what also is somewhat of  concern is a  close relative in management at Walgreens told us that  all doctors who write perscriptions get  paid for each one they write 

 BTW it does modify  our DNA making us GMOs(genetically  modified organism )

Edited December 8, 2020 by mcrcruiser

[kazu]

12 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

what also is somewhat of  concern is a  close relative in management at Walgreens told us that  all doctors who write perscriptions get  paid for each one they write 

 

Doctors do not get paid to write prescriptions.  Spreading such disparaging misinformation about professionals that are working their tails off to the point of exhaustion and risking their lives in this pandemic is so wrong.

 

[mcrcruiser]

3 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Doctors do not get paid to write prescriptions.  Spreading such disparaging misinformation about professionals that are working their tails off to the point of exhaustion and risking their lives in this pandemic is so wrong.

 

You are in Canada which is different than here in the USA  .I was told this by a close relative in Walgreens management .So why would I doubt them & believe you 

[Mtn2Sea]

10 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

You are in Canada which is different than here in the USA  .I was told this by a close relative in Walgreens management .So why would I doubt them & believe you 

So, are saying I will need to go to my doctor to get a prescription prior to going to CVS to get the vaccine?

[kazu]

14 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

You are in Canada which is different than here in the USA 

 

 

Yes, thank heavens.  And, I totally recognize things are different there but...

 

Quote

 

.I was told this by a close relative in Walgreens management .So why would I doubt them & believe you 

 

Because this falsehood has been spread by a certain political figure and if your Walgreen’s management believes it, they will continue to spread this awful accusation.  It is truly hurtful to physicians and the medical community.

 

Physicians take their Hippocratic oath very seriously.  They are being worked to the bone in this time with long days, little time off (if any) and to make an accusation without verifiable proof is beyond mean, cruel & disparaging.

 

I know how outraged and hurt they are by this.  DH belongs to both Canadian and U.S. health organizations.
 

[mcrcruiser]

Here is why people need to wear masks even after the vaccine injections :

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/heres-why-vaccinated-people-still-need-to-wear-a-mask/ar-BB1bJt9b?li=BBnb7Kz 

[mcrcruiser]

32 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Yes, thank heavens.  And, I totally recognize things are different there but...

 

 

Because this falsehood has been spread by a certain political figure and if your Walgreen’s management believes it, they will continue to spread this awful accusation.  It is truly hurtful to physicians and the medical community.

 

Physicians take their Hippocratic oath very seriously.  They are being worked to the bone in this time with long days, little time off (if any) and to make an accusation without verifiable proof is beyond mean, cruel & disparaging.

 

I know how outraged and hurt they are by this.  DH belongs to both Canadian and U.S. health organizations.
 

  There is a huge amounts  of money vin drugs  .  This is why many people here will buy drugs from Canadian pharmacies   . It is very well known that US patients pay the highest prices for drugs in the entire world   .So simply follow the money [which makes logical sense & every thing is a business when it comes to drugs 

 

 Does any one ,really any one truly believe that governments tell is the truth always ?

Edited December 8, 2020 by mcrcruiser