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Will vaccines now be required?


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6 hours ago, emmas gran said:

This is for the topic "Will Vaccines be Required"  it is for us on this board to talk about --not people who have just come along for the argument and you know who you are !! We don't want your wasteful talk and stats re flu TB etc we want a Covid 19 vaccine end of story. If you don't want the vaccine that is up to you , please keep to the subject Covid vaccine

emmas gran thank you for your comments and trying to re-focus the thread.  Much appreciated.  Since I used the "ignore button" for that poster, I can only presume that is why the thread continues to go sideways up and down.  Let's try to keep to the OP's topic on whether COVID vaccines will be required for cruise travel.  I personally feel that they will be required.  Vaccination certificates and eDocs and Immunity passports are already being developed if you search the news on this topic.  Quantas is one airline that has stated this as a requirement to fly internationally.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/qantas-coronavirus-vaccination-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

 

Cruise lines are private companies.  They can actually require a vaccine as a condition of employment for their crew and staff.  They can also make vaccination a requirement in their cruise contracts with passengers.  But what about ports and port workers?  Some of these folks are in the public/government sector.  Excursion tour guides?  Bus drivers? Shop keepers?  Some countries might require all these individuals in contact with us on cruises and tourism to be vaccinated.  Probably (definitely) not the US.

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7 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

This link provides the legal basis for vaccination in the US.  It's worth a read:

 

https://www.idsociety.org/globalassets/idsa/policy--advocacy/mandatory-vaccinations-precedent-and-current-laws-031011.pdf

 

Historically, the preservation of the public health has been the primary responsibility of state and local governments, and the authority to enact laws relevant to the protection of the public health derives from the state’s general police powers. With regard to communicable disease outbreaks, these powers may include the enactment of mandatory vaccination laws. This report provides an overview of the legal precedent for mandatory vaccination laws, and of state laws that require certain individuals or populations, including school-aged children and health care workers, to be vaccinated against various communicable diseases. Also discussed are state laws providing for mandatory vaccinations during a public health emergency or outbreak of a communicable disease.

 

Federal jurisdiction over public health matters derives from the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution, which states that Congress shall have the power “[t]o regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States ... ” Congress has enacted requirements regarding vaccination of immigrants seeking entry into the United States, and military regulations require American troops to be immunized against a number of diseases. The Secretary of Health and Human Services has authority under the Public Health Service Act to issue regulations necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the states or from state to state. Current federal regulations do not include any mandatory vaccination programs; rather, when compulsory measures are needed, measures such as quarantine and isolation are generally utilized to halt the spread of communicable diseases.

Thank you for the link.  Very interesting for sure.  But will the US states require COVID vaccinations?  I would not bet even a penny on that.  Perhaps for public school children.  Even that will be highly resisted.

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35 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

From what I have read from the UK government and people have posted on here from the CDC and local states cruise ship employees from developing nations will probably be very far down the list for vaccination. 

 

I'm not sure about the UK government, but I would caution you about believing everything that is posted on CC.

 

Vaccine from multiple suppliers will be available around March of next year.  I suspect the cruise lines will purchase vaccine directly from the drug companies to vaccinate their employees.  I also suspect that people will circumvent the national health care industry recommendations and they will get vaccinated by the private doctors in the UK.  I also suspect that the private health care system will be able to purchase vaccine directly from the drug companies.

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I read this BBC regarding USA and vaccines

 

President-elect Joe Biden says Americans won't be forced to take a coronavirus vaccine when one becomes available in the US.

 

It may be true may not, just quoting what I read

 

Liz

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2 minutes ago, emmas gran said:

I read this BBC regarding USA and vaccines

 

President-elect Joe Biden says Americans won't be forced to take a coronavirus vaccine when one becomes available in the US.

 

It may be true may not, just quoting what I read

 

Liz

 

I think I've seen the same, but that's consistent with the role of the federal and state governments in the US; the federal government could require vaccination for entry into the US, and theoretically for movement between states, but the states generally have the authority to compel public health measures within their borders, not the federal government. Compulsory vaccination has generally been limited to school age children, college admissions, occupational risk groups, military, etc., and most of that at the state, territorial, tribal, and local levels.

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21 minutes ago, emmas gran said:

I read this BBC regarding USA and vaccines

 

President-elect Joe Biden says Americans won't be forced to take a coronavirus vaccine when one becomes available in the US.

 

It may be true may not, just quoting what I read

 

Liz

 

While I personally feel that they should make it mandatory, I understand the politics in why Biden is saying what he's saying.

 

One thing to remember here:  If you're 55 and older and you catch this virus, you have a 92% chance of dying from it.  So those of us who are over 55, why wouldn't you get the vaccine then?  Oh, and that's NOT a made up number.  That number comes directly from the CDC (LINK)

Edited by K.T.B.
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11 hours ago, nocl said:

A couple of issues with the links.

 

First the report does not say that there was 6.3 times more virus shedding.  It says that there was more in fine aerosol samples, not total virus shedding.  The paper also states

 

"Several researchers have recently shown that exhaled aerosol particles are frequently generated from normal healthy lungs by small airway closure and reopening (1921)r"

 

In other words those that have been vaccinated recently (this or previous year) are more likely to shed virus in fine aerosols, than those that have not been vaccinated because their lungs are healthier even when infected.  

 

So the report really does not support your position.  The report also does not deal with strains and if the person was infected with one of the strains included in their vaccination

 

As far as the second you are making an error in interpreting the results. You are really off base in your interpretation of the data.

 

  Not everyone gets the flu every year. Using their data from a number of studies.  According to their analysis f you are not vaccinated you have a 2.3 percent change of catching the flu.  If you are vaccinated your odds improve to .9%.  So taking the vaccine has reduced ones odds of getting the flu by over 60%.  The 71 number comes that the reduce in the chance of catching the flu is reduces by 1.4%    100/1.4 = 71.2   which means that if the illness incidence is 2.3% of the population and you reduce it to .9%  then you will prevent one person from getting sick if you vaccinate 71 people.  After all 97.7% will not get the illness at all even if infected.

 

Apply this stats to the the vaccinated population of 150 million the same stats would indicate that 2.11 flu infections would be prevented.  Reducing the number of infections by over 60%.

 

Inactivated influenza vaccines probably reduce influenza in healthy adults from 2.3% without vaccination to 0.9% (risk ratio (RR) 0.41, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.36 to 0.47;  .

 

 

 

made an typo line should say 97.7% will not get the illness even if not vaccinated.

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20 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

..

 

One thing to remember here:  If you're 55 and older and you catch this virus, you have a 92% chance of dying from it.  . That number comes directly from the CDC (LINK)

PLEASE STOP!!!!  Your conclusion is absurd!!!!! How do you get it from that link??? Even if 92% of Covid deaths were age 55 and older, that does not mean anyone 55 or older with Covid has a 92% chance of dying. 

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43 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

While I personally feel that they should make it mandatory, I understand the politics in why Biden is saying what he's saying.

 

One thing to remember here:  If you're 55 and older and you catch this virus, you have a 92% chance of dying from it.  So those of us who are over 55, why wouldn't you get the vaccine then?  Oh, and that's NOT a made up number.  That number comes directly from the CDC (LINK)

Typo???

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58 minutes ago, latserrof said:

PLEASE STOP!!!!  Your conclusion is absurd!!!!! How do you get it from that link??? Even if 92% of Covid deaths were age 55 and older, that does not mean anyone 55 or older with Covid has a 92% chance of dying. 

K.T.B. is guilty of Syllogistic Fallacy.

 

All crows are black. The bird in my cage is black. Therefore, this bird is a crow.

 

92% of COVID deaths were people aged 55 or older. I'm 55 or older. Therefore, I have a 92% chance of dying from COVID.

Edited by Fouremco
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On 12/3/2020 at 10:46 AM, phoenix_dream said:

That's not what I said, nor is it what I meant.  No sense responding with logic so I won't.

Once again: no one cared previously! That’s the point! Within last 9 months we hear screams about “protecting loved ones” even if we talk about just 1 life. That’s makes perfect sense! However, what about any time prior to March 2020?! I know it’s pointless discussion, because the history does not teach us anything. I witnessed and experienced “on my own skin” for the first half of my life (30 years!!!) in Russia how it “works”. I thought I will not be part of that anymore. And yet, here we are again. And no one listen to me as if I am telling some folk stories for children.

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3 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

I can only speak to what the UK Government

No decision made in the UK whether under 50's without a health condition will get the vaccine, you may be able to purchase a vaccine but not until all at risk groups are vaccinated and doses allocated to COVAX

 

 

 

And I can only speak to what the Scottish government have said.They have made a decision about under 50’s. Below is a quote straight from their covid website. Additionally, the national clinical director is advising under 50’s may have to wait to early summer, but they are on the list!

 

“Vaccination for other groups will begin as soon as the supply of vaccine becomes available. The aim is for every adult in Scotland to be offered the vaccination.

NHS Scotland strongly recommends you get your vaccine as soon as it's offered to you.”

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11 minutes ago, zanderblue said:

 

And I can only speak to what the Scottish government have said.They have made a decision about under 50’s. Below is a quote straight from their covid website. Additionally, the national clinical director is advising under 50’s may have to wait to early summer, but they are on the list!

 

“Vaccination for other groups will begin as soon as the supply of vaccine becomes available. The aim is for every adult in Scotland to be offered the vaccination.

NHS Scotland strongly recommends you get your vaccine as soon as it's offered to you.”

 

No news either way in Wales, with the UK government in charge of procurement if they stop at the over 50's the Welsh, Northern Irish and the Scottish government may have to pay for this out of their own pockets to meet their aims. It will end up being a postcode lottery like many NHS treatments. 

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I am interested in my CC cohorts opinion on what will happen next. Does anyone know how the Cruise Lines will deal with the vaccine?

 

I believe that the current plan includes testing before you get on, limited interaction with people in the ports etc. Are they requiring people wear masks or just sanitize?

 

There have been lines that have required masks and limiting buffets and entertainment. 

 

So, if we have had our shots, and I mean both, what is the next plan? We will we still need to be tested and wear masks? I have always said I would not cruise with a mask. Does anyone have any info???

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This thread has gone on long enough and far beyond the OP's question "Will Vaccines be Required"  With the reality  of the pandemic, whether you will be vaccinated or are an anti-vaxxer, if you want to travel the next 2 years Internationally and/or get on a cruise ship, you  most likely will need a COVID vaccination or you stay home. 

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2 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

This thread has gone on long enough and far beyond the OP's question "Will Vaccines be Required"  With the reality  of the pandemic, whether you will be vaccinated or are an anti-vaxxer, if you want to travel the next 2 years Internationally and/or get on a cruise ship, you  most likely will need a COVID vaccination or you stay home. 

"This thread has gone on long enough and far beyond the OP's question." 

Then it seems you could have ended your post with the first sentence. 

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4 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

"This thread has gone on long enough and far beyond the OP's question." 

Then it seems you could have ended your post with the first sentence. 

No maybe it should have ended with you not responding.

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3 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

While I personally feel that they should make it mandatory, I understand the politics in why Biden is saying what he's saying.

 

One thing to remember here:  If you're 55 and older and you catch this virus, you have a 92% chance of dying from it.  So those of us who are over 55, why wouldn't you get the vaccine then?  Oh, and that's NOT a made up number.  That number comes directly from the CDC (LINK)

Oh my goodness, this is why people may be better just ignoring anything written on a cruise forum linked to Covid.

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Just now, K.T.B. said:

 

Bingo.  92% of the deaths...

 

Sheesh, gotta love the knee jerk reactions.  You're the only one who saw the obvious.  Thanks.

Kevin you have been posting here for quite some time and I value your posts, knowledge and insight.  So I figured it was a mistake - we all make them.  

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4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Kevin you have been posting here for quite some time and I value your posts, knowledge and insight.  So I figured it was a mistake - we all make them.  

 

I appreciate it.

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