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Will vaccines now be required?


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29 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I got into a heated discussion about that yesterday.  The other person feels that travel industry shouldn't be able to dictate that people can use their service if vaccinated or not.  My response was it's a private business, so they can make their rules and they need to also keep their employees safe.  That didn't go over well.

 

Mind you, this person is definitely very pro-mask, etc., but takes umbrage at that.  Personally, whether we can travel or not, I'll get the vaccine.  But if all of the travel industry requires people be vaccinated, I'm behind them 100%.  I'd prefer not to see people stuck in a foreign port on a ship while the virus runs unchecked again...

I agree private businesses can have mandates as they choose, the cruise lines do not want to see a repeat of what happened in March and April with ships and passengers stranded all over the world in quarantine.  I have read in some other travel blogs that countries like Australia and even states like Hawaii may limit incoming travelers to only those that are vaccinated. next year.

 

Comparing a Covid vaccine to other disease vaccines  is pointless because we have never seen a pandemic like this in recent modern history. More money and research all over the world has been thrown into this vaccine than at any time in history. This has cut down the time for development and testing from years to less than one year and in reality it is almost a medical miracle. 

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58 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That is your choice and most will not have any problem with that.  However,  do not complain when you will have to stay home and not be able to board a cruise ship or fly Internationally for the next few years because of your choice.

 

Please could you provide evidence?

 

Based on what we know now the vast majority of cruisers and international travellers will not have had the vaccine by April/May. How long can private companies afford to wait when the mortality rate drops to a fraction of that of influenza to wait for everyone else to be vaccinated?

 

It is estimated by the UK Government by April/May over 99% of covid-19 deaths will be avoided. If there is enough take up, by then covid-19 will be relegated to a disease less harmful than most we do not have vaccine certificates for in the UK.

 

Once high income nations have gotten covid-19 mortality under control there will be immense pressure from the UN, WHO, countries and other international groups to have vaccine stocks released to low income countries before the low risk groups in high income countries. 

 

Depending on the monitoring of adverse effects the UK government has said it may not roll out the vaccine to under 50's.

 

Depending on the studies done on phase 1 roll out, governments and the WHO may not recommend vaccination for large swathes of populations, it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk, this is unknown at the moment

 

If private companies turn away a huge proportion of their clientele because vaccinations are not available, required or recommended by governments and the WHO they will probably not survive.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

Please could you provide evidence?

 

Based on what we know now the vast majority of cruisers and international travellers will not have had the vaccine by April/May. How long can private companies afford to wait when the mortality rate drops to a fraction of that of influenza to wait for everyone else to be vaccinated?

 

It is estimated by the UK Government by April/May over 99% of covid-19 deaths will be avoided. If there is enough take up, by then covid-19 will be relegated to a disease less harmful than most we do not have vaccine certificates for in the UK.

 

Once high income nations have gotten covid-19 mortality under control there will be immense pressure from the UN, WHO, countries and other international groups to have vaccine stocks released to low income countries before the low risk groups in high income countries. 

 

Depending on the monitoring of adverse effects the UK government has said it may not roll out the vaccine to under 50's.

 

Depending on the studies done on phase 1 roll out, governments and the WHO may not recommend vaccination for large swathes of populations, it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk, this is unknown at the moment

 

If private companies turn away a huge proportion of their clientele because vaccinations are not available, required or recommended by governments and the WHO they will probably not survive.

 

 

Boy, that’s a lot of analysis for a statement that was made in response to somebody who doesn’t plan on getting vaccinated.

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20 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Boy, that’s a lot of analysis for a statement that was made in response to somebody who doesn’t plan on getting vaccinated.

 

As someone who is pro vaccination but has server reservations about the Pfizer vaccine it just astounds me that some of the pro vaccination people can be as rabid and misleading as the anti vaxxers. Until Governments, UN and WHO get behind a vaccine certification program anyone who says that vaccination certificates will be a definite requirement has not looked at the bigger picture.  

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1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I understand your feelings but just wonder why you think wearing a mask would impact you, or anyone who won't sail because of having to wear one.  From what I've read they would be required in public areas, but not when eating or drinking so I don't understand how it makes the cruise experience so much less.  I am asking sincerely, would really like to hear reasons for this so that I understand your concerns better. (and others also who have said the same)

I look at it this way. I have about 20 more years of cruising if I choose. I do where a mask when I go out. We really dont leave the house much now. It is not just about wearing a mask on the cruise ship. It is getting to the cruise ship. At this time I'm fine with cruising out of the west coast. Short flights and no transfers. Now if going out of Florida...airport, flight, transfers, hotel. If I did not have a Celebrity FCC. I would just wait until summer 2022 to cruise. 

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1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

Please could you provide evidence?

 

Based on what we know now the vast majority of cruisers and international travellers will not have had the vaccine by April/May. How long can private companies afford to wait when the mortality rate drops to a fraction of that of influenza to wait for everyone else to be vaccinated?

 

It is estimated by the UK Government by April/May over 99% of covid-19 deaths will be avoided. If there is enough take up, by then covid-19 will be relegated to a disease less harmful than most we do not have vaccine certificates for in the UK.

 

Once high income nations have gotten covid-19 mortality under control there will be immense pressure from the UN, WHO, countries and other international groups to have vaccine stocks released to low income countries before the low risk groups in high income countries. 

 

Depending on the monitoring of adverse effects the UK government has said it may not roll out the vaccine to under 50's.

 

Depending on the studies done on phase 1 roll out, governments and the WHO may not recommend vaccination for large swathes of populations, it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk, this is unknown at the moment

 

If private companies turn away a huge proportion of their clientele because vaccinations are not available, required or recommended by governments and the WHO they will probably not survive.

 

 


I don’t think cruise companies will have a choice on when they restart. Whether they can wait or not. They will be the last travel, behind all other travel.  Cruises are not essential. April or May are optimistic dates. Probably not. If enough people get vaccinated that combined with immunity of those who were infected and the pandemic ends......then vaccination might not be required. Time will tell. That could be late 2021 before we can cruise again vaccination required or not required.

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1 hour ago, bigbenboys said:

I look at it this way. I have about 20 more years of cruising if I choose. I do where a mask when I go out. We really dont leave the house much now. It is not just about wearing a mask on the cruise ship. It is getting to the cruise ship. At this time I'm fine with cruising out of the west coast. Short flights and no transfers. Now if going out of Florida...airport, flight, transfers, hotel. If I did not have a Celebrity FCC. I would just wait until summer 2022 to cruise. 

 

Understood on all points.

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2 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I understand your feelings but just wonder why you think wearing a mask would impact you, or anyone who won't sail because of having to wear one.  From what I've read they would be required in public areas, but not when eating or drinking so I don't understand how it makes the cruise experience so much less.  I am asking sincerely, would really like to hear reasons for this so that I understand your concerns better. (and others also who have said the same)

I live in a city where mask are mandatory in stores, shopping centres and similar indoor locations. Observing patrons coming and going over the past nine months has led me to believe that there are two distinct groups. The first will wear masks if they absolutely have to, but hate doing so. They will carry their masks from the parking lot to the store entrance and put it on at the last conceivable moment. At the conclusion of their business, they are reaching for their mask as they approach the exit and rip it from their face as soon as they reach the doorway.

 

The second group, to which I belong, put their masks on in the car and make no effort to remove it until they have returned to the car. In my case, if I'm driving on to another location requiring a mask, I'll just leave it on. My masks are very comfortable and sometimes I'll arrive home still wearing one, having forgotten to take it off.

 

There are many reasons why some might loathe wearing a mask while others don't mind at all, and I think that those who detest them but wear them anyway when required deserve credit for doing their part. But when it comes to cruising, I can understand why those who don't like wearing them simply will not sail until mask are no longer required aboard.

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3 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I live in a city where mask are mandatory in stores, shopping centres and similar indoor locations. Observing patrons coming and going over the past nine months has led me to believe that there are two distinct groups. The first will wear masks if they absolutely have to, but hate doing so. They will carry their masks from the parking lot to the store entrance and put it on at the last conceivable moment. At the conclusion of their business, they are reaching for their mask as they approach the exit and rip it from their face as soon as they reach the doorway.

 

The second group, to which I belong, put their masks on in the car and make no effort to remove it until they have returned to the car. In my case, if I'm driving on to another location requiring a mask, I'll just leave it on. My masks are very comfortable and sometimes I'll arrive home still wearing one, having forgotten to take it off.

 

There are many reasons why some might loathe wearing a mask while others don't mind at all, and I think that those who detest them but wear them anyway when required deserve credit for doing their part. But when it comes to cruising, I can understand why those who don't like wearing them simply will not sail until mask are no longer required aboard.

I too am in the second group.  Wearing a mask does not bother me at all.  Then again, unlike many I do not go into stores, sit-down dining etc.  Generally I only go outside to walk the dog and get some air.  Thankfully anything and everything I need can be and is delivered to my door.  Even going to the vet with my dog, I call them from outside, they come take him and I wait outside.  Will do the same on a ship when we return if that is required.  I do not understand the people who make a fuss about it under general conditions as mentioned above, but can understand why some do not want to cruise that way.

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Many of us older people have some hearing loss. Believe me, it is much more difficult to understand someone when they are wearing a mask. Talking with others is inherent on a cruises. I also do not want to have to put on a mask to walk down the hallways. I wouldn't mind wearing a mask for shows, trivia and lectures as long as the presenters were not masked as well. Need to fully understand what they are saying. 

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9 minutes ago, 39august said:

Many of us older people have some hearing loss. Believe me, it is much more difficult to understand someone when they are wearing a mask. Talking with others is inherent on a cruises. I also do not want to have to put on a mask to walk down the hallways. I wouldn't mind wearing a mask for shows, trivia and lectures as long as the presenters were not masked as well. Need to fully understand what they are saying. 

Totally get that, I am deaf in one ear and hard of hearing in my "good" ear 🙂 I have a Cochlear bone implanted hearing device, at times with the masking it can be frustrating, but honestly overall, has not been a big problem.  

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6 hours ago, eaflorida said:

I totally agree with you. I am relatively healthy and in my 60's. I am not interested in getting a vaccine. These vaccines were RUSHED. Typically new vaccines are tested for 5-7 years for safety, before they are approved. It is very sad to hear about those that have passed from Covid related issues. However, we know nothing about the long term safety of these vaccines. 

 

For 99% of the population, they are not going to die from Covid. Especially children and people under 60 years of age have like a 99.9% chance of surviving Covid. Some Drs are saying that the vaccine could actually harm childrens immune systems if they receive it. 

 

It really surprises me the number of people on these boards that will blindly take the vaccine. But that is the beauty of life. You should be free to make your own decisions about whether or not you want a vaccine. It should not be mandatory. And if it becomes mandatory, I predict that the cruise lines will lose a lot of younger cruisers who like me dont want an experimental vaccine.

We plan on taking one of the vaccines at the earliest opportunity.  Without a vaccine foreign travel will not likely be a viable option.   

The vaccines were expedited, but based on what I have read, there have been extremely few issues.

While COVID-19 is a low risk of fatality, even for a person my age (72) with no co-morbities, the virus is still more of a risk than a vaccine.

Everyone has to make their own decision.   I had no choice when I entered military service in 1972 and received about 6 vaccines.  Planning for our safari in East Africa, my wife and I received 5 vaccines, most were updates, but included yellow fever and typhoid.  Our safari was postponed from July of this year until July of 2021 and we are excited about that trip.   We should be able to travel then, since a vaccine should be available before then.

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2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I live in a city where mask are mandatory in stores, shopping centres and similar indoor locations. Observing patrons coming and going over the past nine months has led me to believe that there are two distinct groups. The first will wear masks if they absolutely have to, but hate doing so. They will carry their masks from the parking lot to the store entrance and put it on at the last conceivable moment. At the conclusion of their business, they are reaching for their mask as they approach the exit and rip it from their face as soon as they reach the doorway.

 

The second group, to which I belong, put their masks on in the car and make no effort to remove it until they have returned to the car. In my case, if I'm driving on to another location requiring a mask, I'll just leave it on. My masks are very comfortable and sometimes I'll arrive home still wearing one, having forgotten to take it off.

 

There are many reasons why some might loathe wearing a mask while others don't mind at all, and I think that those who detest them but wear them anyway when required deserve credit for doing their part. But when it comes to cruising, I can understand why those who don't like wearing them simply will not sail until mask are no longer required aboard.

I'm sort of in your 1st group, but don't hate wearing it, just thoughtless I guess (3rd group?)......sometimes take it off after leaving the store on the way to the car...put on just before entering a store.  But I can honestly say I see everyone wearing a mask in congested areas/stores/restaurants until seated in our city (the few places I go anyway).  Having said that, when having it on for a while, I forget it's there....and once tried to put a bite in my mouth with the mask on....DH thought it was too funny...LOL.

Edited by Oceangoer2
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2 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I disagree.   There is no justification currently for limiting foreign travel according to vaccination status.  It would be a nonsense.

Yes!!

Like Yellow Fever inoculation proof.   That is just SO intrusive.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I disagree.   There is no justification currently for limiting foreign travel according to vaccination status.  It would be a nonsense.   Hmmmm, have you been traveling lately, where have you gone?  Newsflash, foreign travel throughout the world is at present VERY restricted. 

 

 

 

I don't see how you can possibly make any kind of informed decision on such a matter as no-one yet knows what the long term impacts or adverse effects of the vaccines are.   The only reason to take the vaccine at this stage that I can see is if you are at severe risk of serious symptoms and/or death from Covid and thus have little choice but to take your chances with the rushed out vaccines.  You do not need to understand how any of us make our decisions, we make ours and you make yours, end of discussion.

 

 

Yes absolutely and should be free to do so without prejudice or discrimination of any kind.  Finally making sense.  I do not see cruising in your future though.

 

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15 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

But not restricted according to Covid vaccination status.   It's restricted based on whether you are Covid-positive or not and restricted based on whether you are traveling from a Covid hotspot country.

That's not going to change any time soon, quite irrespective of vaccines.

 

As I said, VERY restricted at present and for foreseeable future:  No one can enter us from China, Iran, European Schengen Area, UK, Republic of Ireland, Brazil.  And it is not based on COVID testing status, with very few exceptions, it is based on just having been in one of these countries in the past 14 days, whether you have COVID or not.  

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4 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

As I said, VERY restricted at present and for foreseeable future:  No one can enter us from China, Iran, European Schengen Area, UK, Republic of Ireland, Brazil.  And it is not based on COVID testing status, with very few exceptions, it is based on just having been in one of these countries in the past 14 days, whether you have COVID or not.  

KTS will be left behind while the rest of us travel and cruise. He is now on my ignore list too. 

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6 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

KTS will be left behind while the rest of us travel and cruise. He is now on my ignore list too. 

Several posters here on CC seem to have some true knowledge and expertise on the science involved.  Can I verify that, no of course not, I do not know them personally, but taking at face value many of their posts and information shared, led me to do research further.  I also work for a very large international law firm, with offices in US, Asia and Europe.  In our intellectual property group, we have many many bright scientists, chemists and epidemiologists, working with two of the current "almost" approved vaccine providers.  I get very encouraging updates from them.  When I ask, will YOU take the vaccine...to a person, each and every one of them have said, yes without a doubt and will be comfortable doing so.  KTS is of course entitled to his/her opinions, lord knows he/she has many, all NOT based on science, but that is OK, is his/her opinion.  I like many posters here are ready to do what we need to do to get back to as normal a life as we can.  I will do so based on experts, not desk chair scientists.  I really appreciate the professionals on here, has generated a lot of good conversation for me with my aforementioned colleagues.   

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1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

The only reason to take the vaccine at this stage that I can see is if you are at severe risk of serious symptoms and/or death from Covid and thus have little choice but to take your chances with the rushed out vaccines.

 

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that covers just about everyone in the USA

(My bolding)

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2 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that covers just about everyone in the USA

(My bolding)

For an "outsider" you clearly have a good handle on how very many, not all, American's are handling this.  I look at the peoples in countries like yours, NZ, Rep of Ireland, and many others, seem to be more willing to listen to guidance.  It is beyond frustrating to me it is wearing a mask in public, no one is asking you to cut off your nose.  

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7 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

For an "outsider" you clearly have a good handle on how very many, not all, American's are handling this.  I look at the peoples in countries like yours, NZ, Rep of Ireland, and many others, seem to be more willing to listen to guidance.  It is beyond frustrating to me it is wearing a mask in public, no one is asking you to cut off your nose.  

As one who enjoys travel, and wishing to continue so long as my health holds out, I will be in the queue for the vaccine when my turn comes. I was a polio survivor, my younger sister was not as lucky, having life long consequences due to no vaccine being available at the time. I can't imagine the side effects (and I accept there will be some) being worse than the disease.

I'm sure many of my countrymen despair as to what is happening as many of us have friends and family over there and we feel somewhat helpless. We can only look on and hope for the best.

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