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Will vaccines now be required?


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So, several of you seem to be suggesting that mask wearing will go well into 2022.  What about controlling the "bubble?"  When do you guess that we will be able to leave the ship and go out on own?  I would presume that this is in some ways the riskier thing, so should lag behind the continuation of mask wearing.  Right?

 

- Joel

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3 hours ago, lyndarra said:

As one who enjoys travel, and wishing to continue so long as my health holds out, I will be in the queue for the vaccine when my turn comes. I was a polio survivor, my younger sister was not as lucky, having life long consequences due to no vaccine being available at the time. I can't imagine the side effects (and I accept there will be some) being worse than the disease.

I'm sure many of my countrymen despair as to what is happening as many of us have friends and family over there and we feel somewhat helpless. We can only look on and hope for the best.

 

I posted this article in the other vaccine thread, but I'll share it here as well:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-trial-participant/index.html

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1 hour ago, cl.klink said:

So, several of you seem to be suggesting that mask wearing will go well into 2022.  What about controlling the "bubble?"  When do you guess that we will be able to leave the ship and go out on own?  I would presume that this is in some ways the riskier thing, so should lag behind the continuation of mask wearing.  Right?

 

- Joel

Won't that depend greatly on how well the port country has done with its own vaccination program?

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Masks will still be required after people have been vaccinated?  I believe the mask is to protect others rather than the person wearing the mask.

 

Wow, Mom says, you took the words out of my mouth!  We were both typing at the same time.

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Joel I think I know where you are headed.  It's a dead end for us as it seems to be more about paranoia and control than anything else.  We dont need flu certificates in our wallets.  We shouldn't need covid certs either.  It is no different than the flu.  It is new, so there isnt much immunity built up in the community at large.  A virus that's had a vaccine for years still kills 60k a year in the States.  Kids are much more vulnerable to the flu as well.  The IFR is similar.  

 

The scenes of the Chicoms building hospitals in days got everybody rattled.  And here we are, damned the science.

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3 hours ago, Tippyton said:

  It is no different than the flu.

Please just STOP. It is very different than the flu. And it has affected the entire world. It has infected 67 MILLION people (and that's just the cases that have been tested). It has killed  more than 1.5 MILLION people.  And there is no sign that it has stated to wain. It has devastated families, disrupted our way of life, forced businesses into bankruptcy, and has severely damaged many nations economies. When was the last time a disease  came anywhere near that level of world disruption?  That is not paranoia. That's the facts, Jack.

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2 hours ago, mom says said:

Please just STOP. It is very different than the flu. And it has affected the entire world. It has infected 67 MILLION people (and that's just the cases that have been tested). It has killed  more than 1.5 MILLION people.  And there is no sign that it has stated to wain. It has devastated families, disrupted our way of life, forced businesses into bankruptcy, and has severely damaged many nations economies. When was the last time a disease  came anywhere near that level of world disruption?  That is not paranoia. That's the facts, Jack.

 

Looking at just figures, coronavirus is between 3 and 7 times worse than influenza based on this year compared to the last 50 years of influenza with a vaccine.

Comparing it to Hong Kong Flu and Asian Flu for which we did have a vaccine coronavirus is similar to how dangerous these were but there were less people on the planet.

The last major influenza outbreak without a vaccine was the Spanish Flu and that was on order of magnitudes greater than coronavirus between 20 and 50 times worse with a fraction of the population.

 

Part of the reason coronavirus has devastated economies, disrupted our way of life and forced businesses into bankruptcy is because this horrible disease has impacted severely the high to middle income countries disproportionately. If coronavirus had impacted the lower income countries disproportionately how much media, social media and Governmental concern would there have been. Would the world have invested between 8-10 trillion dollars, 1/36th of the worlds wealth on one disease if it only had a major impact on poorer countries.

I am sure there are poorer countries in the world where coronavirus is not their first concern.

 

Though coronavirus is devastating disease causing heartache for so many and is far worse than the modern influenza outbreaks and should not be dismissed lightly I can understand when people raise concerns whether Governments have overreacted and put policies in place that have caused more harm than good in the long run.

 

Hopefully by the end of 2021 with a vaccine covid-19 can be reduced to the scale of the common cold world wide.   

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, 39august said:

Many of us older people have some hearing loss. Believe me, it is much more difficult to understand someone when they are wearing a mask. Talking with others is inherent on a cruises. I also do not want to have to put on a mask to walk down the hallways. I wouldn't mind wearing a mask for shows, trivia and lectures as long as the presenters were not masked as well. Need to fully understand what they are saying. 

 

I think the hearing impaired do have a valid issue when talking with someone who has a mask on, so I understand that concern.  

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14 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I disagree.   There is no justification currently for limiting foreign travel according to vaccination status.  It would be a nonsense.

 

 

 

I don't see how you can possibly make any kind of informed decision on such a matter as no-one yet knows what the long term impacts or adverse effects of the vaccines are.   The only reason to take the vaccine at this stage that I can see is if you are at severe risk of serious symptoms and/or death from Covid and thus have little choice but to take your chances with the rushed out vaccines.

 

 

Yes absolutely and should be free to do so without prejudice or discrimination of any kind

Yes, there are places that you can visit these days, like Mexico.  However, European travel is very difficult with all the shutdowns, quarantines and limitations.

 

Even driving within the USA is a problem, since some states require quarantine from visitors from other areas.  I believe that at some point many airlines will require the vaccine before boarding overseas flights.

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20 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I understand your feelings but just wonder why you think wearing a mask would impact you, or anyone who won't sail because of having to wear one.  From what I've read they would be required in public areas, but not when eating or drinking so I don't understand how it makes the cruise experience so much less.  I am asking sincerely, would really like to hear reasons for this so that I understand your concerns better. (and others also who have said the same)

 

1. I'm concerned that if masks are still in place it won't be just "masks". It will be the covid testing, the cruise ship shore excursions only, the masks, reduced occupancy in restaurants and bars (potentially leading to longer waits), the quarantined the whole ship if there is one positive case onboard, etc. That whole package is not something I'm willing to sign up for.

 

2. I almost always take the stairs on the cruise ship. And I do notice at work that I get a bit winded taking the stairs at work with my mask on

 

3. My husband hates wearing a mask so he will do it but will complain the whole time. Again would detract from me enjoying my vacation

 

4. fogs up sunglasses

 

5. Get hotter and sweatier more quickly with a mask on

 

6. Don't really want to return home with a bunch of photos of me and my family masked up instead of being able to see out faces

 

7. The frustration I constantly feel going out in public when I am following the mask rules and others aren't - either not wearing one at all, wearing it as a chin strap or hanging off their ear, or with their nose uncovered. I don't think it will be any different on a cruise ship.

 

8. I usually walk around most of the time with some sort of drink in my hand. I get dry mouth and sip water frequently. So would have to be constantly on/off with the mask or forgo my water drinking.

 

9. air coming out of the top of the mouth tends to dry my eyes out a bit. Not a problem for short periods of time but wouldn't want to wear one all day. 

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19 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

As someone who is pro vaccination but has server reservations about the Pfizer vaccine it just astounds me that some of the pro vaccination people can be as rabid and misleading as the anti vaxxers. Until Governments, UN and WHO get behind a vaccine certification program anyone who says that vaccination certificates will be a definite requirement has not looked at the bigger picture.  

By pro-vaccination people do you mean the scientists, medical experts, doctors and a whole lot of well- read people?  And the WHO, the CDC, and a whole list of agencies and organizations who are devoted to public health?  All as rabid and misleading as the average anti-vaxxer who will not even protect their own children? 

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13 hours ago, lyndarra said:

My biggest problem, if one can call it that, with wearing a mask is that it gets tangled with my hearing aids when I try to remove it.😃

I have the same problem, one time my mask pulled off my hearing aid and I almost stepped on it. 

 

 If it means getting back to cruising I would wear a mask when outside my cabin. I also will be vaccinated when available. I retired this year at age 70 and want to travel extensively the next few years, including the 3 cruises we have booked for 2021 and 2022.

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7 hours ago, mom says said:

Please just STOP. It is very different than the flu. And it has affected the entire world. It has infected 67 MILLION people (and that's just the cases that have been tested). It has killed  more than 1.5 MILLION people.  And there is no sign that it has stated to wain. It has devastated families, disrupted our way of life, forced businesses into bankruptcy, and has severely damaged many nations economies. When was the last time a disease  came anywhere near that level of world disruption?  That is not paranoia. That's the facts, Jack.

Great response, I have a sister who keeps saying the same thing. I have never had any friend or relative I know die from the Flu or even be hospitalized.  But in the last couple of months 3 friends of mine died from COVID.  I have several other friends who had to be hospitalized with COVID. My next door neighbor's daughter got COVID from her Nanny and the Nanny gave it to her Grandmother who died from COVID. People who say it is no worse than the Flu are most likely the same ones who will never get vaccinated, like my sister.

Edited by terrydtx
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20 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

Please could you provide evidence?

 

Based on what we know now the vast majority of cruisers and international travellers will not have had the vaccine by April/May. How long can private companies afford to wait when the mortality rate drops to a fraction of that of influenza to wait for everyone else to be vaccinated?

 

It is estimated by the UK Government by April/May over 99% of covid-19 deaths will be avoided. If there is enough take up, by then covid-19 will be relegated to a disease less harmful than most we do not have vaccine certificates for in the UK.

 

Once high income nations have gotten covid-19 mortality under control there will be immense pressure from the UN, WHO, countries and other international groups to have vaccine stocks released to low income countries before the low risk groups in high income countries. 

 

Depending on the monitoring of adverse effects the UK government has said it may not roll out the vaccine to under 50's.

 

Depending on the studies done on phase 1 roll out, governments and the WHO may not recommend vaccination for large swathes of populations, it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk, this is unknown at the moment

 

If private companies turn away a huge proportion of their clientele because vaccinations are not available, required or recommended by governments and the WHO they will probably not survive.

 

 

it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk"

 

Wow!  Just, wow!

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22 hours ago, eaflorida said:

I totally agree with you. I am relatively healthy and in my 60's. I am not interested in getting a vaccine. These vaccines were RUSHED. Typically new vaccines are tested for 5-7 years for safety, before they are approved. It is very sad to hear about those that have passed from Covid related issues. However, we know nothing about the long term safety of these vaccines. 

 

For 99% of the population, they are not going to die from Covid. Especially children and people under 60 years of age have like a 99.9% chance of surviving Covid. Some Drs are saying that the vaccine could actually harm childrens immune systems if they receive it. 

 

It really surprises me the number of people on these boards that will blindly take the vaccine. But that is the beauty of life. You should be free to make your own decisions about whether or not you want a vaccine. It should not be mandatory. And if it becomes mandatory, I predict that the cruise lines will lose a lot of younger cruisers who like me dont want an experimental vaccine.

Risk vs benefit.  That is always the choice. If you are concerned about long-term safety issues then that is your personal concern and it is your choice to get the vaccine or not.  I believe that mandatory COVID vaccines will not happen so you will definitely decide for yourself.

 

Of course these vaccines were rushed because there is a pandemic.  Globally 1.5 million deaths and counting as of today with countless others sick and suffering.  I'm glad you are relatively healthy in your 60's.  So were some who have died from COVID who wish they had a choice to take a vaccine.  So were younger health care workers taking care of these COVID patients- all of them risked their lives - and some died for it.  Why do you say we will "blindly" take the vaccine?  What do you know about how I will evaluate my own risk vs. benefit and my own choice?  You will make your choice but why judge my choice?  

 

The vaccines were able to be developed so quickly because the medical and scientific technology now used in 2020 has advanced to the point that it could be done that quickly.  Yes it used to take 5-10 years to develop and test a vaccine.  I did this for a good part of my career. And  it took that long or longer to develop most things that you are using in everyday life that you now count on.  Everything you used to do on your bulky desktop computer hooked to a dial-up modem just a few short years ago is now done with a small chip in your cellphone in a microsecond.  

Edited by TeeRick
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2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

By pro-vaccination people do you mean the scientists, medical experts, doctors and a whole lot of well- read people?  And the WHO, the CDC, and a whole list of agencies and organizations who are devoted to public health?  All as rabid and misleading as the average anti-vaxxer who will not even protect their own children? 

 

Do I have to explain the difference between some and all

 

Some people on these boards have advocated the view that those who don't vaccinate should be excluded from cruising regardless of numerous genuine reasons why they either cannot or will not be vaccinated that have nothing to do with being an anti vaxxer

 

I heard one police officer when talking about vaccine ID's say they would be the first to get a vaccine and would " laugh at the starving masses that have not taken the vaccine and who could not get into supermarkets". She is a friend of mine and her wife will not be eligible for a vaccine on health grounds

 

I have spoken with people who believe that everyone who has not had the vaccine for any reason should be kept in lockdown until they accept the vaccine

 

There has been quite a few post stating something along the lines of I don't care if you choose not to vaccinate but I hope you can live with yourself if you give the disease to a loved one who dies. Which is a strange statement to make when you consider the head of Pfizer and scientists have already stated that it's possible you may transmit the virus even if vaccinated.

 

I have heard medical doctors and politicians state the vaccines are safe and everyone should have it. But let's be honest without the ability to time travel no one really knows the answer to is it safe

 

There are those from all walks of life who at either end of the scales and everywhere in between including scientists, medical experts, doctors, a whole lot of well read people, WHO and CDC. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, mom says said:

Please just STOP. It is very different than the flu. And it has affected the entire world. It has infected 67 MILLION people (and that's just the cases that have been tested). It has killed  more than 1.5 MILLION people.  And there is no sign that it has stated to wain. It has devastated families, disrupted our way of life, forced businesses into bankruptcy, and has severely damaged many nations economies. When was the last time a disease  came anywhere near that level of world disruption?  That is not paranoia. That's the facts, Jack.

You are as guilty as the person you are criticizing. You are ignoring the fact that Covid is a new virus with no vaccine and comparing it to the flu. The flu kills hundreds of thousands yearly WITH a vaccine in place. It, too, Devi states families. Maybe not yours, but others. Covid did not force businesses to close, or make them file bankruptcy, or severely damage economies. People did that. And that IS paranoia. Nomad098 had a very lucid reaction to your post. You should reflect on his comment.

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1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

1. I'm concerned that if masks are still in place it won't be just "masks". It will be the covid testing, the cruise ship shore excursions only, the masks, reduced occupancy in restaurants and bars (potentially leading to longer waits), the quarantined the whole ship if there is one positive case onboard, etc. That whole package is not something I'm willing to sign up for.

 

2. I almost always take the stairs on the cruise ship. And I do notice at work that I get a bit winded taking the stairs at work with my mask on

 

3. My husband hates wearing a mask so he will do it but will complain the whole time. Again would detract from me enjoying my vacation

 

4. fogs up sunglasses

 

5. Get hotter and sweatier more quickly with a mask on

 

6. Don't really want to return home with a bunch of photos of me and my family masked up instead of being able to see out faces

 

7. The frustration I constantly feel going out in public when I am following the mask rules and others aren't - either not wearing one at all, wearing it as a chin strap or hanging off their ear, or with their nose uncovered. I don't think it will be any different on a cruise ship.

 

8. I usually walk around most of the time with some sort of drink in my hand. I get dry mouth and sip water frequently. So would have to be constantly on/off with the mask or forgo my water drinking.

 

9. air coming out of the top of the mouth tends to dry my eyes out a bit. Not a problem for short periods of time but wouldn't want to wear one all day. 

Seems it would definitely be best if you didn't cruise....or travel outside your home during this time.  Just in case you're one of the unlucky ones who contract the disease not wearing a mask or social distancing.  None of us know who will be a victim so I choose to be as careful as possible.  JMO.

Edited by Oceangoer2
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2 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Seems it would definitely be best if you didn't cruise.

 
Of course. And I have no plans to. Was just responding to the person who wondered why someone would choose not to cruise when there's a mask mandate.

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17 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

Do I have to explain the difference between some and all

 

Some people on these boards have advocated the view that those who don't vaccinate should be excluded from cruising regardless of numerous genuine reasons why they either cannot or will not be vaccinated that have nothing to do with being an anti vaxxer

 

I heard one police officer when talking about vaccine ID's say they would be the first to get a vaccine and would " laugh at the starving masses that have not taken the vaccine and who could not get into supermarkets". She is a friend of mine and her wife will not be eligible for a vaccine on health grounds

 

I have spoken with people who believe that everyone who has not had the vaccine for any reason should be kept in lockdown until they accept the vaccine

 

There has been quite a few post stating something along the lines of I don't care if you choose not to vaccinate but I hope you can live with yourself if you give the disease to a loved one who dies. Which is a strange statement to make when you consider the head of Pfizer and scientists have already stated that it's possible you may transmit the virus even if vaccinated.

 

I have heard medical doctors and politicians state the vaccines are safe and everyone should have it. But let's be honest without the ability to time travel no one really knows the answer to is it safe

 

There are those from all walks of life who at either end of the scales and everywhere in between including scientists, medical experts, doctors, a whole lot of well read people, WHO and CDC. 

 

 

I am not saying anything about a COVID vaccine being mandatory or even required. I am saying that it is hopefully a well-informed choice that many of us must make in the next year by evaluating our own personal risk vs. the benefit of getting the vaccine once available.

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8 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

it may not make financial or ethical sense to vaccinate those at the lowest risk"

 

Wow!  Just, wow!

 

So you think the UK professors, scientists and Government involved with the roll out of the vaccine are wrong, this comes from them not me, I'm just taking expert advice and posting it.

 

The FDA and other bodies have had to withdraw drugs in the past because even though they passed all safety requirements when used in the wider society issues arose.

If, when mass vaccination takes place the data shows that over a certain age or with certain health conditions risk benefit is positive great but that does not automatically translate to the risk benefit in lower risk people and if the risk benefit is negative it would be unethical to offer a vaccine. It's not a one size fits all at the moment.

 

Though the NHS in the UK offer free care at point of use that does not mean that the Government can not decide that those at lowest risk should pay for their vaccination. This is the case with the flu vaccine only those at risk are offered a free jab the rest of us have to pay.

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7 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I am not saying anything about a COVID vaccine being mandatory or even required. I am saying that it is hopefully a well-informed choice that many of us must make in the next year by evaluating our own personal risk vs. the benefit of getting the vaccine once available.

 

I agree

 

Unfortunately the argument has become quite polarised with some extreme views.

 

My opinion is that Governments should not coerce populations into having the vaccines by denial of liberties, what companies choose to do is up to them.

 

I personally will be at the bottom of the list, I jump up to the over 50's come February so I hope the Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine or the Johnson & Johnson will be online as I am less risk averse to these vaccines and will take one. I may even take one of the mRNA jabs if scientific information becomes available showing a good risk benefit.  

 

 

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Ok, I'm confused. I get the vaccine therefore I can't get the virus. If I can't get the virus, I can't spread it. Could someone please tell me why I would need to wear a mask? What is so difficult about it?  Get the shot, get on the ship. Don't want to get the shot? Go home.  That is the new normal.

Edited by diamondintn
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