Will vaccines now be required?

[J18ktleo]

wow, thank you for all the intuitive reading, I really appreciate it!

As one of those who says 'I'll wait a couple of years' before I get the vaccine, not even knowing which one will be the one that's good for most and for me, and understanding it might be the end of my world travel I am continually entertained by conversations talking about 'listening to the experts'.

Who are the experts?

Who designated them better experts over others?

How many contradictory statements/writings/rulings should be made before they are no longer considered an expert?

 

What we were told in the spring, when this supposedly started, has changed week by week by week with new information and new guidelines.

And the places with mask MANDATES are still seeing incremental rises in their infection rates so, is that truly a remedy?

First they said 'put on a mask and don't touch it', then they said wear it only outdoors, then indoors too then while you're eating (which means you touch it and touch it and touch it).

They said dining inside is dangerous but outside is ok now it's not.

 

The constant back and forth of information is mind blowing.

And the continual back and forth of data and 'new information' is as well.

 

2 almost fully EUA approved Vaccines and a couple more on the way.  Has anyone heard/read anything about what the differences are? Which one's work for whom?  I know that every single drug introduced has challenges interacting with peoples health and other drugs they might be taking, from everything I'm reading about these vaccines they're all good for everyone?  Although now the Pfizer vaccine isn't good for those with bad asthma issues...

 

Anyways, there's so many angles to this difficult and tragic situation.

I wonder if we can ever feel that we're getting some degree of 'real' information? 🤔

[Oceangoer2]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

LOL. That's far better than some here who type faster than they can think!

 

"Are you lookin at me"?

[mom says]

59 minutes ago, J18ktleo said:

Although now the Pfizer vaccine isn't good for those with bad asthma issues

Kindly cite your source for this.  I've been unable to do find any such warning. The only one recently in the news is for those with a history of anaphylaxis.

Edited December 10, 2020 by mom says

[Arizona Wildcat]

39 minutes ago, mom says said:

Kindly cite your source for this.  I've been unable to do find any such warning. The only one recently in the news is for those with a history of anaphylaxis.

Spoke with a VP with Astra Zenica - school friend of many years - who stated he was aware of some moderate to significant (guess that is one step up) reactions by those who have severe anaphylaxis conditions.  Said no problem with asthma.

Every vaccine has a risk reward ratio.  Seems Pfizer vaccine worth it for us and to protect a neighbor in her 80s who we assist.

By February there will likely be at least two more traditional vaccines.

I expect travel restrictions through 2021 for those who choose not to be vaccinated as well as workplace choices of masks or working from home.  Thus you do not have to get vaccinated, but need to be prepared for what your choice brings. 

[mom says]

24 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

aware of some moderate to significant (guess that is one step up) reactions by those who have severe anaphylaxis conditions. 

Correct. And this should be an expected, if somewhat rare, adverse reactions to any vaccine. I would be gobsmacked to hear of any vaccine that had never triggered an anaphylactic reaction. Same with most drugs.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

 

"Are you lookin at me"?

 Never!

[cltnccruisers]

Regarding the comment on how the vaccines may inter-react, that touches a nerve with me.  I take several meds and often wondered how they might interact.  After asking both of my doctors and doing some outside research I was shocked to learn that tracking interaction was the responsibility of the pharmacist!  The best I could do was use a tool from Caremark and enter all my meds for a list of interactions.  I'll likely take a vaccine in early spring when I become eligible but it would at least be nice to know what to look for reaction wise. 

[LGW59]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:54 AM, nomad098 said:

 

Do I have to explain the difference between some and all

 

Some people on these boards have advocated the view that those who don't vaccinate should be excluded from cruising regardless of numerous genuine reasons why they either cannot or will not be vaccinated that have nothing to do with being an anti vaxxer

 

I heard one police officer when talking about vaccine ID's say they would be the first to get a vaccine and would " laugh at the starving masses that have not taken the vaccine and who could not get into supermarkets". She is a friend of mine and her wife will not be eligible for a vaccine on health grounds

 

I have spoken with people who believe that everyone who has not had the vaccine for any reason should be kept in lockdown until they accept the vaccine

 

There has been quite a few post stating something along the lines of I don't care if you choose not to vaccinate but I hope you can live with yourself if you give the disease to a loved one who dies. Which is a strange statement to make when you consider the head of Pfizer and scientists have already stated that it's possible you may transmit the virus even if vaccinated.

 

I have heard medical doctors and politicians state the vaccines are safe and everyone should have it. But let's be honest without the ability to time travel no one really knows the answer to is it safe

 

There are those from all walks of life who at either end of the scales and everywhere in between including scientists, medical experts, doctors, a whole lot of well read people, WHO and CDC. 

 

 

Do I have to explain the difference between some and all.  what does this mean?  Do you have some medical expertise or just sharing an opinion like 99.9% of other posters here??

[nocl]

7 hours ago, J18ktleo said:

wow, thank you for all the intuitive reading, I really appreciate it!

As one of those who says 'I'll wait a couple of years' before I get the vaccine, not even knowing which one will be the one that's good for most and for me, and understanding it might be the end of my world travel I am continually entertained by conversations talking about 'listening to the experts'.

Who are the experts?

Who designated them better experts over others?

How many contradictory statements/writings/rulings should be made before they are no longer considered an expert?

 

What we were told in the spring, when this supposedly started, has changed week by week by week with new information and new guidelines.

And the places with mask MANDATES are still seeing incremental rises in their infection rates so, is that truly a remedy?

First they said 'put on a mask and don't touch it', then they said wear it only outdoors, then indoors too then while you're eating (which means you touch it and touch it and touch it).

They said dining inside is dangerous but outside is ok now it's not.

 

The constant back and forth of information is mind blowing.

And the continual back and forth of data and 'new information' is as well.

 

2 almost fully EUA approved Vaccines and a couple more on the way.  Has anyone heard/read anything about what the differences are? Which one's work for whom?  I know that every single drug introduced has challenges interacting with peoples health and other drugs they might be taking, from everything I'm reading about these vaccines they're all good for everyone?  Although now the Pfizer vaccine isn't good for those with bad asthma issues...

 

Anyways, there's so many angles to this difficult and tragic situation.

I wonder if we can ever feel that we're getting some degree of 'real' information? 🤔

The reasons why the advice evolved is actually pretty simple and pretty logical.

 

At the start nothing was known about this virus. With the lack of information the advice was based upon using other viruses behaviors.  As more was learned, at a very rapid pace, the advice changed to be more specific to this virus. Now there is a lot more known, so it is not surprising that the advice has changed considerably.

 

It is how science works going from the unknown to the known.  There is still a lot more to be learned, so expect future changes as well.

 

 

[nocl]

10 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

Your quite right I failed to make it clear being vaccinated does not make you covid free only a test can do that. Covid free should have been "will want more" and testing should have gone in with logistics.

 

Thinking faster than I can type

Actually a test cannot even do that.  All a test can say is that there was not detectable virus in the sample.  According to an analysis by John Hopkins, even with PCR the false negative rate for people with symptoms was at best 20%.

[MamaFej]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Actually a test cannot even do that.  All a test can say is that there was not detectable virus in the sample.  According to an analysis by John Hopkins, even with PCR the false negative rate for people with symptoms was at best 20%.

THIS! My sister in law was so glad when my 14 year-old niece tested negative, when my brother, and she were positive, then her 19 year-old was also positive. Since the 14 year-old lives in the same house, my household was sure that her viral load was not yet detectable. Lo and behold, 14 YO started having symptoms a couple of days later, then retested, then was Covid-positive. 

 

This virus will replicate at every chance it is given. It is up to us, as decent humans, to stop giving it so many chances. 

[emmas gran]

Why are people on this thread getting so argumentative???????????????

 

Its a vaccine people will either get it or not it's a personal choice

[nomad098]

6 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Do I have to explain the difference between some and all.  what does this mean?  Do you have some medical expertise or just sharing an opinion like 99.9% of other posters here??

 

I said "some" and the member who replied changed the context to "all" thats what that means, it could have been as simple as a typo or a way of getting their point across?

 

Do you really have to have "medical expertise" to pass social commentary on behaviour.

 

Maybe an economics degree to post on a tipping thread or a behavioural degree to comment on a chair hogging thread 

 

No I do not have a medical degree and have never claimed to have had one. But I can read and understand research and like 99.9% of other posters post my opinion. 

 

[nomad098]

4 hours ago, nocl said:

Actually a test cannot even do that.  All a test can say is that there was not detectable virus in the sample.  According to an analysis by John Hopkins, even with PCR the false negative rate for people with symptoms was at best 20%.

 

Interesting court judgement from Portugal in regards to tests. 97% false positives at 35 cycles surely that cannot be right?

https://www.portugalresident.com/judges-in-portugal-highlight-more-than-debatable-reliability-of-covid-tests/

 

Possible bad news for lateral flow tests showing more false negatives

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4744

 

 

[ipeeinthepool]

4 hours ago, emmas gran said:

Why are people on this thread getting so argumentative???????????????

 

Its a vaccine people will either get it or not it's a personal choice

 

That's a good question.  People will likely have a choice if they want to be vaccinated.  However that choice may come with consequences.   Schools require vaccinations, some jobs require vaccinations, travel to some parts of the world require vaccinations, etc.  Anyone that doesn't get vaccinated may find that they no longer have the ability to cruise.

[ipeeinthepool]

4 hours ago, MamaFej said:

THIS! My sister in law was so glad when my 14 year-old niece tested negative, when my brother, and she were positive, then her 19 year-old was also positive. Since the 14 year-old lives in the same house, my household was sure that her viral load was not yet detectable. Lo and behold, 14 YO started having symptoms a couple of days later, then retested, then was Covid-positive. 

 

This virus will replicate at every chance it is given. It is up to us, as decent humans, to stop giving it so many chances. 

 

Did you have this conversation with your sister?   Does she know how she or her husband got infected?  Before getting infected did you tell her it was up to decent human beings to stop giving the virus so many chances?

[phoenix_dream]

On 12/6/2020 at 6:10 PM, lyndarra said:

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that covers just about everyone in the USA

(My bolding)

Not sure why you would say that.  In no way is "just about everyone" in the USA at risk of severe symptoms or death. These can happen to anyone of course, but by far the deaths from Covid are statistically much higher in nursing homes and similar facilities.  They will be vaccinated first along with front line medical staff.   If you want to change that to severe risk of catching the virus, right now that is the case but will also change as the vaccines begin to be distributed.  Big difference.  

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

Regarding the comment on how the vaccines may inter-react, that touches a nerve with me.  I take several meds and often wondered how they might interact.  After asking both of my doctors and doing some outside research I was shocked to learn that tracking interaction was the responsibility of the pharmacist!  The best I could do was use a tool from Caremark and enter all my meds for a list of interactions.  I'll likely take a vaccine in early spring when I become eligible but it would at least be nice to know what to look for reaction wise. 

Just keep in mind that every conceivable reaction, interaction, side effect and all else will be closely followed by the regulatory authorities and agencies - just like the two allergic reactions in the UK to the Pfizer vaccine were immediately reported.  These vaccines are under the world microscope.  You will definitely know.  And also keep in mind that the media will report every conceivable thing and some sources will sensationalize everything or spin the truth.  IMO - Just follow your personal doctor's advice if you are concerned about anything at all.

[wrk2cruise]

Our state HHS secretary held a news conference regarding vaccine roll out.  The issue of the cards came up.  She stated they were mainly for a reminder to get the second booster shot.  She also made the excellent suggestion to snap a photo with your phone to make sure you have a copy.

 

They also talked about encouraging the entity doing the vaccination and insurance companies who may be paying for administration (vaccine is free but there can be a fee for the injection service) to utilize their systems for auto reminders for the second dose.

 

There was another question from a reporter about the collection of personal data and it possibly being a deterrent to some parts of the population due to immigration concerns.  It was clear the state has a digital system for tracking but there was no indication it was linked to any universal system.

[yorky]

10 hours ago, emmas gran said:

Why are people on this thread getting so argumentative???????????????

 

Its a vaccine people will either get it or not it's a personal choice

That’s my feeling. Those that choose not to get it (not everyone will have that choice) know the risks not just to themselves but their loved ones. I’m personally comfortable that people have that choice. I think we would feel more comfortable that everyone boarding who was able to get the vaccine had it but that’s going to be up to others. We will still cruise if it’s not mandatory as while we understand there could be disruption if anyone catches it that has not had the jab we should still be safe ourselves. Hopefully everyone makes an informed decision and we can all move on.

[TeeRick]

Maybe I will get the nurse or lab technician to use my phone and take a picture of the vaccine vial with the label and a second picture (or video) of them injecting it into my arm.  And I will have them sign and date my arm and take a picture of the injection site.  I would have my arm notarized but maybe that would hurt with that notary stamp thing.  Hopefully they will use washable ink on my arm too.😀

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, yorky said:

That’s my feeling. Those that choose not to get it (not everyone will have that choice) know the risks not just to themselves but their loved ones. I’m personally comfortable that people have that choice. I think we would feel more comfortable that everyone boarding who was able to get the vaccine had it but that’s going to be up to others. We will still cruise if it’s not mandatory as while we understand there could be disruption if anyone catches it that has not had the jab we should still be safe ourselves. Hopefully everyone makes an informed decision and we can all move on.

I mostly agree and that will definitely be the case at some point when everybody has had the opportunity to make the choice and be vaccinated or not.  But that point of time is dependent on the doses available and the country.  So even if I am lucky enough to be vaccinated that might not be the case for those still waiting.  

[C-Dragons]

18 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Maybe I will get the nurse or lab technician to use my phone and take a picture of the vaccine vial with the label and a second picture (or video) of them injecting it into my arm.  And I will have them sign and date my arm and take a picture of the injection site.  I would have my arm notarized but maybe that would hurt with that notary stamp thing.  Hopefully they will use washable ink on my arm too.😀

Maybe you should just have it tattooed. 😉

Edited December 11, 2020 by C-Dragons

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Maybe I will get the nurse or lab technician to use my phone and take a picture of the vaccine vial with the label and a second picture (or video) of them injecting it into my arm.  And I will have them sign and date my arm and take a picture of the injection site.  I would have my arm notarized but maybe that would hurt with that notary stamp thing.  Hopefully they will use washable ink on my arm too.😀

I'd recommend that you have all relevant information tattooed on your arm. Just be sure to wear a short-sleeved shirt on embarkation day in future. 

 

Oops. Great minds thinking alike again!

Edited December 11, 2020 by Fouremco

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, C-Dragons said:

Maybe you should just get it tattooed.

Or a branding iron?

Remember the scar we all carried from childhood on our arms from the smallpox vaccine?  Or are you too young for that?