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Will vaccines now be required?


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1 minute ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

While you have a good point and I agree with your time line, I'm afraid I'm not sure I have your faith that the anti-vaxxers won't show up boarding pass in hand, demanding to be allowed to board. When you see news reports (complete with video) of a disabled store employee being beaten by someone for daring to ask them to follow a provincial health order and wear a mask, your faith that some people will grasp the rules is shaken to the core. 

There have been far too many videos of these yahoos attacking employees or fellow shoppers, and I have no doubt that there are many more. However, these people haven't laid out thousands of dollars and travelled to the embarkation port. While I realize that logic may not be an anti-vaxxer's strong suit, I really don't think that they are going to tie up those funds for many months, in addition to possibly paying for fights and hotels, just so they can be denied boarding. JMO

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2 hours ago, shipshape sam said:

Works for me.  Wonder how the vaccine works, ie like flu shot  being good for a year or like some of the other shots that create lasting immunity with one or two shots.

 

Flu like shot might create some interesting issues of when did  you get it and how long before you would be required to get an updated shot or be denied boarding.

 

 

 

It will take awhile, although that is being studied. Remember flu immunity wanes at least in part because the virus changes, not because of the individual’s vaccine response. On the flip side of that issue, right now it is quite hard to measure cellular immunity which seems to be the dominant type of immunity to SARS CoV, so scientists are also working a way to measure immunity,

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1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

A question for anyone that has taken a Covid test.  Has anyone every received written confirmation of your results?  I only received a phone call.  I would think that all of the testing clinics are too busy to provide a written report so I could cruise within the next day or two after the results are back.

I had to do the rapid test, got my results via email, in 2 hours, negative.  I honestly though did not feel it was correct.  Was SO sick for 3 days before I went for the test, 3 days after.  Was it COVID, IDK, was it flu IDK, was I sick YES.  Had every single symptom they say comes with COVID, but never had a fever, just low grade 100 degree range.  This was in mid-October, all good now.  

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To get rid of Covid, one of the best way we have is to ensure that a high percentage of every world population is vaccinated. 

 

Therefore, I completely agree that travel should be used as an incentive to increase vaccination levels.

 

From my perspective, any government would be hard pressed to make the vaccine mandatory. All kinds of people for all kinds of reasons, would use charters of freedom and rights to object to vaccination.

 

However, if the vaccine is required for travel purposes, whether just crossing a land border, taking a flight or a cruise etc. it would become a powerful incentive to increase the vaccination ratio without impact on people’s freedom.

 

You don’t want the vaccine? No problem! It is your right! However, that choice may impact your access to new destination.

 

It would be only fair, in my opinion, that people willing to expose themselves and others to higher risks, be made accountable, by having access to more limited options. (Exceptions, could be made for people medically certified not being able to receive the vaccine)

 

Similarly, I believe that vaccination should be required to gain access to specific types of jobs, for example, in the health care systems or in education etc.

 

In 2020, we lost so many people around the planet due to this virus. Business of different sizes and in varied domains have suffered serious consequences. In turn, their employees also were expose to dire consequences.

 

We just cannot afford, the risk to live again these consequences, because of some capricous ideologies. 

 

Once vaccines are declared safe by health authorities, let’s use that tool to open travel again! The sooner, the better.

 

 

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1 hour ago, marieps said:

I hope vax is required and with same, the mask policies and SD are eased.  If all passengers are vaxed, what's the point?  


Because while the vaccine will certainly push this virus out of our lives it is not 100% effective. It appears to be 90-95% effective which is fantastic (I believe that is a similar level to the measles vaccine). While the virus is still out there with people getting infected, even though many will already be vaccinated, I think masks should still be required onboard in common areas where social distancing might be difficult at times. That requirement could potentially go away by the end of 2021/early 2022 if we see enough people vaccinated and transmission of the virus at minimal levels.

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30 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:


Because while the vaccine will certainly push this virus out of our lives it is not 100% effective. It appears to be 90-95% effective which is fantastic (I believe that is a similar level to the measles vaccine). While the virus is still out there with people getting infected, even though many will already be vaccinated, I think masks should still be required onboard in common areas where social distancing might be difficult at times. That requirement could potentially go away by the end of 2021/early 2022 if we see enough people vaccinated and transmission of the virus at minimal levels.

 

You're welcome to research on your own; the 90-95% is a myth as it only counts those who displayed symptoms, it didn't count those who were asymptotic.  Even if it was 95% effective, that still means 1 out of 20 isn't immune unfortunately and the ports may take issue with that.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

You're welcome to research on your own; the 90-95% is a myth as it only counts those who displayed symptoms, it didn't count those who were asymptotic.  Even if it was 95% effective, that still means 1 out of 20 isn't immune unfortunately and the ports may take issue with that.

 

 


OK. Tell me how we measure the asymptomatic. PCR?  Only indicates the viral RNA is present. Seroconversion? Maybe, but equally maybe not. It’s essentially impossible to prove a negative in science. You disprove the null hypothesis; you can’t prove it. Where is the myth? The data openly states the vaccine endpoints are disease (symptom) reduction. I really don’t understand your point. 
 

Absence of proof that the vaccines prevent asymptomatic transmission is not proof that it doesn’t. And 95% effective is measles territory, one of the most effective vaccines ever. And I’m not aware of any serious public health authority taking issue with measles vaccine. 
 


 

 

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12 minutes ago, markeb said:

I really don’t understand your point. 

 

Perhaps one day the vaccine will one day be 100%.  To come to the 95%, they simply did not test everyone, only those who displayed symptoms.  The FDA will report an effective % less 95%, anyone is welcome to doubt the FDA and believe the vaccine is 95-100% effective.

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4 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

A question for anyone that has taken a Covid test.  Has anyone every received written confirmation of your results?  I only received a phone call.  I would think that all of the testing clinics are too busy to provide a written report so I could cruise within the next day or two after the results are back.

My dad is in a local nursing home and I am his designated care giver, so I have to have a Covid test every week to be able to visit him. I go to a local urgent care that provides rapid testing. I get a written report certificate in about 15 minutes after the test from the clinic. There have never been more than 1 or 2 people waiting at the clinic to be tested and it takes less than 30 minutes from when I walk into the clinic until I leave with my results. I do this every Friday afternoon. My Medicare Advantage insurance also covers the tests 100%. My dad gets rapid tested by his nursing home twice every week too. Because of his nursing home's strict Covid protocols there has not been any Covid cases in the facility.

Edited by terrydtx
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4 hours ago, Diamond lover said:

Terry I am very sorry for the loss of your friend.  I have also lost loved ones, including my beautiful Mum.  So Covid has been VERY “real” to me since day 1.

Thank you for your kind thoughts, 2020 has been a rough year for our family. I too am sorry to hear about your mother.

 

We lost my mom and my wife lost her mom both to non Covid related illnesses. However because of Covid lock down protocols most of our family was unable to see my mom while she was hospitalized before she passed. My poor mother in law lived in Oregon and she passed in a memory care facility and she was not allowed any visitors the last 5 months of her life. To make it worse for her. she was a very devote Catholic and she was denied last rights by a priest by the local protocols in her city.

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I definitely believe that vaccination should be required. In the US final payment is 3 months before the sailing. WAY to early !!! On the news tonight they listed 200 million people in the US alone who will get priority over those 65+ !!! At that rate it could be a year before the 65+ can get vaccinated !!! And what if you are younger ????

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2 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

You're welcome to research on your own; the 90-95% is a myth as it only counts those who displayed symptoms, it didn't count those who were asymptotic.  Even if it was 95% effective, that still means 1 out of 20 isn't immune unfortunately and the ports may take issue with that.

 

 

No vaccine is 100% effective.  None.  What happens is if you get to a critical point of immunity (natural or vaccination or both) the disease simply dies out.  Am not qualified to explain as not a MD.

However for cruising the issue is handled easily.  Exactly the same as is done for a passport.  You get a CDC or WHO vaccination card.  To get a visa you show proof of vaccination and get your visa.  Equally simple for cruise lines - you simply provide a copy and you get your electronic boarding pass. 

We also have the capability to link passports and vaccination data.

Seems likely required for travel on planes and trains.  Also many employers could require.  Nothing new.  Already done for measles, TB and others in the US and elsewhere.

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31 minutes ago, TommyD3 said:

I definitely believe that vaccination should be required. In the US final payment is 3 months before the sailing. WAY to early !!! On the news tonight they listed 200 million people in the US alone who will get priority over those 65+ !!! At that rate it could be a year before the 65+ can get vaccinated !!! And what if you are younger ????

Tommy, I do not understand.  Between Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and the others there will be some 12 billion doses available in 2021.  There are some 15 million first responders and 2.5 million in care facilities.  Those can be vaccinated by the end of January with the first dose.   The 50M that are over 65 - includes some 3M in the above groups - can get vaccinated by March.

Please share something on your statement.

By late April or May when cruising actually resumes vaccine should be available to all in NA who want it.  Simply be prepared to show your CDC card at check-in.

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1 hour ago, TommyD3 said:

I definitely believe that vaccination should be required. In the US final payment is 3 months before the sailing. WAY to early !!! On the news tonight they listed 200 million people in the US alone who will get priority over those 65+ !!! At that rate it could be a year before the 65+ can get vaccinated !!! And what if you are younger ????

3 months, way to early??  200 million with priority?????  Where in the world on the "news" did you see this?  Come on buddy, stop nonsense

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6 hours ago, Diamond lover said:

Qantas Airlines has announced that in order to board one of their flights in the future, every passenger MUST have been vaccinated against Covid19.  Word in the air (hahaha as opposed to word on the street....I amuse myself) is that several airlines plan to follow suit.  This really makes the world of anti-vaxers much smaller.

 

 Do you think Cruise lines will enforce this as well?  If you want on board, you have to show proof of vaccination?

Will be great, especially since COVID cured the flu...

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2 hours ago, TommyD3 said:

I definitely believe that vaccination should be required. In the US final payment is 3 months before the sailing. WAY to early !!! On the news tonight they listed 200 million people in the US alone who will get priority over those 65+ !!! At that rate it could be a year before the 65+ can get vaccinated !!! And what if you are younger ????

Tom, the US population is 335 million, now if you are talking 100 million needing two doses, well that still sounds high.  Please what is your source?

Finally, I think the CDC is voting on Tuesday on priority vaccination.

Edited by Oville
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3 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

No vaccine is 100% effective.  None.  What happens is if you get to a critical point of immunity (natural or vaccination or both) the disease simply dies out.  Am not qualified to explain as not a MD.

However for cruising the issue is handled easily.  Exactly the same as is done for a passport.  You get a CDC or WHO vaccination card.  To get a visa you show proof of vaccination and get your visa.  Equally simple for cruise lines - you simply provide a copy and you get your electronic boarding pass. 

We also have the capability to link passports and vaccination data.

Seems likely required for travel on planes and trains.  Also many employers could require.  Nothing new.  Already done for measles, TB and others in the US and elsewhere.

TSA Pre Check and CBP Global Entry databases can also be cross tabbed with vax certification.  It would certainly help the airlines back to profitability.

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8 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I sure hope so as well!  It protects all of us and will help keep cruises from crashing again.

 

 

Exactly...let's hope so.  We're under deposit for a 12 night RT Boston in Sept. 2021which is in limbo due to CDC limiting cruises touching a US port to 7 days until Dec.  .  Hopefully, with vaccines coming out shortly, CDC will reconsider the time line.

Edited by CTLeeA
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8 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

A question for anyone that has taken a Covid test.  Has anyone every received written confirmation of your results?  I only received a phone call.  I would think that all of the testing clinics are too busy to provide a written report so I could cruise within the next day or two after the results are back.

 

I was tested last month at my first appointment for the Novavax vaccine trial. I was notified by email and sms text confirming my result.

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We have a Yellow Fever passport style vaccination card, issued when we had the injection that could be printed ready for the vaccine in any country as proof.

 

Someone in the UK has suggested that obese people with a BMI of over 40 should also get priority vaccine, this has caused a lot of discussion also.

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I understand that cruise critic is North American centric and around 51% of cruisers are from the US and Canada but that still leaves a large percentage of cruisers from countries that may not see things the same way. A large proportion of cruises do not start or end in a US, Canadian port.

 

I would imagine the idea of vaccine passports will be causing the cruise lines headaches and concerns. 

 

It's easy for us on an individual scale to want vaccine passports but I would imagine on an international scale this would be a logistical nightmare for cruise lines:

How long to implement vaccine passports

Do you exclude markets that do not implement passports there by loose revenue streams and restrict ports.

What format paper or digital 

What language last cruise we were on had 67 different nationalities and 60+ different languages.

Will certification by a Doctor be enough or will a Government issued one be required

And many more beside the few I listed.

 

I have no problem with the need for vaccine passports I just don't think it will be as easy as some people seem to think it will be.

 

 

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16 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

A question for anyone that has taken a Covid test.  Has anyone every received written confirmation of your results?  I only received a phone call.  I would think that all of the testing clinics are too busy to provide a written report so I could cruise within the next day or two after the results are back.

I got an email with my results.  

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14 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I had to do the rapid test, got my results via email, in 2 hours, negative.  I honestly though did not feel it was correct.  Was SO sick for 3 days before I went for the test, 3 days after.  Was it COVID, IDK, was it flu IDK, was I sick YES.  Had every single symptom they say comes with COVID, but never had a fever, just low grade 100 degree range.  This was in mid-October, all good now.  

You should go get an antibody test to see if you had it.  For $10 you can do this at any Labcorp in the US.

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Digital vaccine passport for airlines.  Probably will be adopted by the cruise industry too.  And many countries will likely require it for entry I believe.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/527581-airlines-set-sights-on-digital-passports-for-covid-19-vaccine

 

https://www.axios.com/digital-coronavirus-immunity-certificates-edf8cf57-ec26-4500-8f0b-84a8a241a6f8.html

Edited by TeeRick
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6 hours ago, emmas gran said:

We have a Yellow Fever passport style vaccination card, issued when we had the injection that could be printed ready for the vaccine in any country as proof.

 

Someone in the UK has suggested that obese people with a BMI of over 40 should also get priority vaccine, this has caused a lot of discussion also.

 

I was going to bring up the requirement  for a yellow fever vaccine for some countries, the same will need to be applied for any type of travel for a Covid vaccine I'm sure, especially international travel.

 

My wife and I fully intend on getting vaccinated once we're able to do so.  We're both in the "high risk" area, so we'll be able to get one sooner rather than later.  If it's an annual shot (or shots), so be it.

 

One final thing, not directed at the above quoted comment, we'll all still be wearing masks for travel for quite a long time, if not forever.  It may not be as strict as it is now, but it'll possibly prevent those 5-15% who aren't helped by the vaccine from getting sick.

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