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Will vaccines now be required?


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It looks like the anti vaxers have finally made their presence kwon in this thread. I hope that the cruise industry adopts the be vaccinated or stay home policy so that the anti-vacers must stay home while the rest of us enjoy our cruises. 

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4 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

It looks like the anti vaxers have finally made their presence kwon in this thread. I hope that the cruise industry adopts the be vaccinated or stay home policy so that the anti-vacers must stay home while the rest of us enjoy our cruises. 

Could not agree more!  I trust that the cruise lines will KnowTheScore.

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2 hours ago, OceanCruise said:
  • A total of 1.4 million people died from TB in 2019 (including 208 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

But again, these people are not the people you will normally find filling cruise ships!!  I don't know where or how you have cruised, but on my sailings the majority of people have been from the US, Canada, and Europe.  How many cruises have you seen halted or returned to port due to a TB infection onboard???  I am fairly confident the number is zero - if not zero (which I think it is for major lines) then definitely rare indeed.  Comparing requiring Covid vaccinations to TB vaccinations therefore just does not make any logical sense. 

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2 hours ago, OceanCruise said:
  • A total of 1.4 million people died from TB in 2019 (including 208 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

And almost 50% of those TB deaths were in two regions, Africa and South East Asia where widespread TB vaccinations are not available or administered. Travel from the US to most of the counties in these regions require TB vaccinations. Again Covid should not be compared to TB they are two different diseases.

https://tbfacts.org/deaths-from-tb/

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7 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

It looks like the anti vaxers have finally made their presence kwon in this thread. I hope that the cruise industry adopts the be vaccinated or stay home policy so that the anti-vacers must stay home while the rest of us enjoy our cruises. 

I don't mind anti-vaxxers on the CC board, just as long as they aren't allowed aboard any cruise ship.

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2 hours ago, OceanCruise said:

Also from WHO:

"About one-quarter of the world's population has a TB infection, which means people have been infected by TB bacteria but are not (yet) ill with the disease and cannot transmit it.

People infected with TB bacteria have a 5–15% lifetime risk of falling ill with TB."

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

Suggest you take your TB data from 3rd World countries - several of which I needed a CDC Vaccination card to get my Visa to enter that country.  Proof of a TB vaccination is also required in several stated to become a "resident" or employed in care homes because of so many who work are from countries with a high infection rate.

A vaccination is not required.  You just will not be able work work or become a resident in a care home.  You also will not likely be able to travel outside the US - including cruising for a long while.

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7 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I don't mind anti-vaxxers on the CC board, just as long as they aren't allowed aboard any cruise ship.

I have to believe most of the anti-vaxxers have not had a friend or loved one die from Covid. As someone who has had both, I can not fathom the idea of anyone not wanting to be vaccinated. Once Covid has personally touched you, your whole reality about the virus changes.

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13 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I don't mind anti-vaxxers on the CC board, just as long as they aren't allowed aboard any cruise ship.

 

But if you're vaccinated then what does it matter . . . . .

 

unless of course the vaccines don't work very well . . .  .. !

 

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6 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

But if you're vaccinated then what does it matter . . . . .

 

unless of course the vaccines don't work very well . . .  .. !

 

It matters because one anti vaxer can infect another...then the cruise is ruined.

Edited by marieps
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Anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated is within his/her rights.  Those rights do not extend to cruising in that their decision potentially affects the entire ship.   You also have the right to smoke, but only in places where the effect on non-smokers is mitigated.  There is no such place on a cruise ship to limit exposure to anti vaxers. JMHO. 

Edited by marieps
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4 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I have to believe most of the anti-vaxxers have not had a friend or loved one die from Covid. As someone who has had both, I can not fathom the idea of anyone not wanting to be vaccinated. Once Covid has personally touched you, your whole reality about the virus changes.

While our family and friends have not been personally touched by Covid, it is totally beyond my ken how anti-vaxxers can so blindly ignore the realities of the disease.

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7 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

But if you're vaccinated then what does it matter . . . . .

 

unless of course the vaccines don't work very well . . .  .. !

 

What garbage are you preaching?  The very first polio vaccine was about 80% effective.  Are you saying cutting the 16000 deaths and 5 times that number crippled to about 1000 was not good?

Time to ignore and move on.

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1 minute ago, terrydtx said:

I have to believe most of the anti-vaxxers have not had a friend or loved one die from Covid. As someone who has had both, I can not fathom the idea of anyone not wanting to be vaccinated. Once Covid has personally touched you, your whole reality about the virus changes.

 

I've seen this kind of input on numerous forums.  You can not win a logical factual debate by using emotional rhetoric to try and  sway hearts and minds.  It's tragic that people have died, sincerely, but people die in huge numbers every single year.  It's part of life.    There are lots of weak, vulnerable people with underlying health conditions and the first major big that gets to them could easily kill them because of that state of health.   That's why up to 650,000 people die every year from Flu.

 

I sympathise in regards to the loss of your friends and loved ones but that in no way will sway my regard for the FACTS and true statistics regarding this virus.

 

86% of cases have no symptoms at all

A further percentage only have mild symptoms requiring no treatments or hospitalisation

99% of people survive Covid

 

According to the latest UK government stats only  66,713 people have so far died with Covid mentioned on the Death Certificate.   In a population of 67 million people that means just 0.09% of the population.

 

Perspective is everything here.

 

Most people already know that what are termed "Covid Deaths" are NOT just deaths directly caused by Covid but include a significant number of deaths due to other causes where the person happened to also test positive for Covid.   In some cases the deceased were not even formally tested.  The medical officers were instructed by Public Health England to record Covid on the death certificate if they suspected that the person previously had Covid by judgement of any recorded symptoms.  Problem is most Covid symptoms are the same as colds, ILIs and/or Flu.   So one must question teh accuracy of that small 66,317 figure.

 

All deaths are tragic but we must maintain due perspective.  The vast majority of the public have absolutely no issues with Covid whatsoever.

 

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10 minutes ago, marieps said:

It matters because one anti vaxer can infect another...then the cruise is ruined.

 

But the same is true of those vaccinated until proven otherwise.

 

Vaccinated people still carry and spread viruses and diseases.  There are proven cases for Mumps, Measles, Rotavirus and others.

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1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

While our family and friends have not been personally touched by Covid, it is totally beyond my ken how anti-vaxxers can so blindly ignore the realities of the disease.

I have a colleague, he and his wife, both early 30's, had Covid in mid-April.  While she got quite sick, lost her sense of smell and taste, still has not come back, he got very ill.  Developed complications in his heart and lungs, very healthy strapping young man, which will now require surgery.  Sorry anti-vaxers, this is real, VERY real.  Stay off my ship!

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2 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

What garbage are you preaching?  The very first polio vaccine was about 80% effective.  Are you saying cutting the 16000 deaths and 5 times that number crippled to about 1000 was not good?

Time to ignore and move on.

 

If you're going to be ridiculous and try and equate Covid to Polio then I'm afraid you're the one to be ignored.  Vastly different diseases on so many levels.

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4 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I have a colleague, he and his wife, both early 30's, had Covid in mid-April.  While she got quite sick, lost her sense of smell and taste, still has not come back, he got very ill.  Developed complications in his heart and lungs, very healthy strapping young man, which will now require surgery.  Sorry anti-vaxers, this is real, VERY real.  Stay off my ship!

 

More anecdotal emotional rhetoric.  I sympathise with  your colleague but it does NOT alter the facts which are that the VAST MAJORITY of people have no issues with Covid.  Some 20%-50% of the population already had levels of immunity before Covid even came along.    I'm afraid you're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

 

No-one is remotely saying that Covid is not real and you're wrong to label discussion glibly as "anti-vaxxer", that's just the usual lame attempt to shut down debate.

 

The facts matter

 

Edited by KnowTheScore
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4 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I've seen this kind of input on numerous forums.  You can not win a logical factual debate by using emotional rhetoric to try and  sway hearts and minds.  It's tragic that people have died, sincerely, but people die in huge numbers every single year.  It's part of life.    There are lots of weak, vulnerable people with underlying health conditions and the first major big that gets to them could easily kill them because of that state of health.   That's why up to 650,000 people die every year from Flu.

 

I sympathise in regards to the loss of your friends and loved ones but that in no way will sway my regard for the FACTS and true statistics regarding this virus.

 

86% of cases have no symptoms at all

A further percentage only have mild symptoms requiring no treatments or hospitalisation

99% of people survive Covid

 

According to the latest UK government stats only  66,713 people have so far died with Covid mentioned on the Death Certificate.   In a population of 67 million people that means just 0.09% of the population.

 

Perspective is everything here.

 

Most people already know that what are termed "Covid Deaths" are NOT just deaths directly caused by Covid but include a significant number of deaths due to other causes where the person happened to also test positive for Covid.   In some cases the deceased were not even formally tested.  The medical officers were instructed by Public Health England to record Covid on the death certificate if they suspected that the person previously had Covid by judgement of any recorded symptoms.  Problem is most Covid symptoms are the same as colds, ILIs and/or Flu.   So one must question teh accuracy of that small 66,317 figure.

 

All deaths are tragic but we must maintain due perspective.  The vast majority of the public have absolutely no issues with Covid whatsoever.

 

"The medical officers were instructed by Public Health England to record Covid on the death certificate if they suspected that the person previously had Covid by judgement of any recorded symptoms."  RUBBISH AND UTTER FALSEHOOD.  Agree with Arizona Wildcat, time to move on from this nonsense poster.

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11 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

While our family and friends have not been personally touched by Covid, it is totally beyond my ken how anti-vaxxers can so blindly ignore the realities of the disease.

My wife’s uncle died yesterday from COVID-19, hope vaccine will be required once they are available, be nice to be on a cruise with more sensible passengers. 

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7 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I've seen this kind of input on numerous forums.  You can not win a logical factual debate by using emotional rhetoric to try and  sway hearts and minds.  It's tragic that people have died, sincerely, but people die in huge numbers every single year.  It's part of life.    There are lots of weak, vulnerable people with underlying health conditions and the first major big that gets to them could easily kill them because of that state of health.   That's why up to 650,000 people die every year from Flu.

 

I sympathise in regards to the loss of your friends and loved ones but that in no way will sway my regard for the FACTS and true statistics regarding this virus.

 

86% of cases have no symptoms at all

A further percentage only have mild symptoms requiring no treatments or hospitalisation

99% of people survive Covid

 

According to the latest UK government stats only  66,713 people have so far died with Covid mentioned on the Death Certificate.   In a population of 67 million people that means just 0.09% of the population.

 

Perspective is everything here.

 

Most people already know that what are termed "Covid Deaths" are NOT just deaths directly caused by Covid but include a significant number of deaths due to other causes where the person happened to also test positive for Covid.   In some cases the deceased were not even formally tested.  The medical officers were instructed by Public Health England to record Covid on the death certificate if they suspected that the person previously had Covid by judgement of any recorded symptoms.  Problem is most Covid symptoms are the same as colds, ILIs and/or Flu.   So one must question teh accuracy of that small 66,317 figure.

 

All deaths are tragic but we must maintain due perspective.  The vast majority of the public have absolutely no issues with Covid whatsoever.

 

OMG, one last response and then I have to move on or my brain will explode.  Where in the world did you get the unproven statistic that 86% of cases have no symptoms at all?  If the scientists and epidemiologists aren't sure of the percentage how can you possibly be?  Heck, if that many people were asymptomatic and the virus is so contagious, then we would have achieved herd immunity by now.  So that makes no sense at all.

 

And when you make your point about Covid deaths, do you not in fact consider the number of cases that were likely Covid but were never identified as such?  There is a good chance those cases would even out the numbers.  And yes, perhaps many of those people were in poor shape and only had a few years left anyway.  But due to Covid, they are now gone, when there is a good likelihood that they had several more years left in them.  Trust me, when you get to that age/condition I suspect those extra few years would mean everything to you.  

 

Yes, we cannot let emotions drive our reasoning.  But nor can we let rationalization convince us fiction is fact because we want to believe it.  Anyone can go online and find a study here or a study there that will provide us the statistics we want to see.  But much more research needs to be done before we know the answers to things like the true positivity rate.

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23 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

"The medical officers were instructed by Public Health England to record Covid on the death certificate if they suspected that the person previously had Covid by judgement of any recorded symptoms."  RUBBISH AND UTTER FALSEHOOD.  Agree with Arizona Wildcat, time to move on from this nonsense poster.

 

Dear oh dear, you really should get the FACTS before you go slating posters.

 

Here's the NHS document in question:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

"if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement."

 

Please get yourself informed

 

Edited by KnowTheScore
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9 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

OMG, one last response and then I have to move on or my brain will explode.  Where in the world did you get the unproven statistic that 86% of cases have no symptoms at all?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-asymptomat-idUSKBN26T2O7

 

"People who were asymptomatic accounted for 86% of the people who tested positive for COVID-19 in a UK sample population during lockdown"

 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/oct/symptoms-covid-19-are-poor-marker-infection

Edited by KnowTheScore
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9 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Dear oh dear, you really should get the FACTS before you go slating posters.

 

Here's the NHS document in question:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

"if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement."

 

Please get yourself informed

 

So had they not gotten Covid, their death would not have been expedited.  Regardless if the had cancer, heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, Covid hastened their death.  Thus Covid WAS the cause.  Now I am really moving on, can't train a horse to jump the rail if he is blind and only has three legs.  

 

and lastly, no more kool-aid for you!

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10 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Dear oh dear, you really should get the FACTS before you go slating posters.

 

Here's the NHS document in question:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

"if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement."

 

Please get yourself informed

 

 

6 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-asymptomat-idUSKBN26T2O7

 

"People who were asymptomatic accounted for 86% of the people who tested positive for COVID-19 in a UK sample population during lockdown"

 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/oct/symptoms-covid-19-are-poor-marker-infection

 

 

Honestly, you are among the most dangerous of posters. You take a random fact here and there -- which in and of themselves contain some truth -- and weave them into a narrative to fit your own stories. I hope others can recognize this for what it is.

 

For example, the article you cite about 86% of people with COVID having no symptoms -- well, if you go to the source and read it, the very last paragraph says (surprise!): "The authors noted that other studies showed different results, with one in China suggesting just 5% of cases were asymptomatic, and a study in Iceland suggesting 43 cases out of 100 had no symptoms. They added that the sampling used in any study was likely to be a factor in its findings."  

 

And what is so nefarious about NHS instructing doctors to use their best clinical judgement regarding the cause of death IF testing was unavailable?  Doctors receive detailed training in clinical diagnoses, and are quite good at it. The sentence you quote is basically saying, "If the symptoms bear out COVID in your opinion, and no test is available, then it is okay to use your clinical judgement. Do you not trust your doctor's judgement?  It's not like NHS was telling them to write down COVID no matter what symptoms the patients had.

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22 hours ago, LGW59 said:

3 months, way to early??  200 million with priority?????  Where in the world on the "news" did you see this?  Come on buddy, stop nonsense

A requirement to prove you have been vaccinated 3 months before the sailing is WAY too early.

200 million with priority before 65+ year olds is from the US CDC aired on NBC national news Nov 28, 2020. See the chart here:

 

CDC.jpg

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