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Will vaccines now be required?


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6 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

And what is so nefarious about NHS instructing doctors to use their best clinical judgement regarding the cause of death IF testing was unavailable?  Doctors receive detailed training in clinical diagnoses, and are quite good at it. The sentence you quote is basically saying, "If the symptoms bear out COVID in your opinion, and no test is available, then it is okay to use your clinical judgement. Do you not trust your doctor's judgement?  It's not like NHS was telling them to write down COVID no matter what symptoms the patients had.

 

No-one said anything was nefarious.  I simply stated the facts of how doctors has been instructed to complete death certificates in relation to Covid and stated my personal opinion that I question the accuracy of simply assessing known symptoms because so many are the same as colds, ILIs and Flu.

It's disingenuous imo to list Covid on the death certificate unless it is 100% tested and proven.

It's also disingenuous to list Covid on the certificate if the person was Covid positive 2-3 weeks before hand and subsequently got killed by something completely different.

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22 hours ago, LGW59 said:

3 months, way to early??  200 million with priority?????  Where in the world on the "news" did you see this?  Come on buddy, stop nonsense

A requirement to prove you have been vaccinated 3 months before the sailing is WAY too early.

200 million with priority before 65+ year olds is from the US CDC aired on NBC national news Nov 28, 2020. See the chart here:

 

CDC.jpg

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I just read KnowTheScore profile page and he is a P&O cruiser by the looks of posts, he has stated on a thread New Vaccine page 19 that he thinks he’s had Covid.

 

He found some time on a Sunday evening so came to Celebrity boards!

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8 hours ago, LGW59 said:

So had they not gotten Covid, their death would not have been expedited.  Regardless if the had cancer, heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, Covid hastened their death.  Thus Covid WAS the cause.  Now I am really moving on, can't train a horse to jump the rail if he is blind and only has three legs.  

 

and lastly, no more kool-aid for you!

 

 

Just do a little research about excess mortality and you‘ll see that your claim has almost no substance.

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-extra-people-in-the-us-so-far

 

 

Edited by Yoshikitty
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10 hours ago, TommyD3 said:

A requirement to prove you have been vaccinated 3 months before the sailing is WAY too early.

200 million with priority before 65+ year olds is from the US CDC aired on NBC national news Nov 28, 2020. See the chart here:

 

CDC.jpg

 

I saw the same graphic and the numbers don't make sense to me.  There are 331 M people in the US.  Is it really true that almost a third are healthcare and essential workers?  Are the 21 million healthcare workers included in the 87 M essential workers?  Is it really true that almost a third of the country have high risk medical conditions?  I wonder what they consider high risk medical conditions?  It seems high to me.  53M over 65 seems right to me, I wonder how many of those people are included in the 100M high risk adults?

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12 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I saw the same graphic and the numbers don't make sense to me.  There are 331 M people in the US.  Is it really true that almost a third are healthcare and essential workers?  Are the 21 million healthcare workers included in the 87 M essential workers?  Is it really true that almost a third of the country have high risk medical conditions?  I wonder what they consider high risk medical conditions?  It seems high to me.  53M over 65 seems right to me, I wonder how many of those people are included in the 100M high risk adults?

See the section ‘Groups Considered for Early Vaccination if the Supply is Limited’.  The inclusions in some of the groups can be quite broad.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations-process.html

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You can't fix stupid... but you can stop them from boarding a cruise ship. It's so simple yet some wish to complicate it. Covid is the worst infectious disease to hit the world in moden history. Period. It has literally stopped the world in it's tracks. If you want to cruise get the damn vaccine and meet me at the bar so we can toast to the cruise we're about to partake in. Otherwise, dial up the port camera and watch us sail away. 

 

Don't be 'that' guy. 

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19 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

You can't fix stupid... but you can stop them from boarding a cruise ship. It's so simple yet some wish to complicate it. Covid is the worst infectious disease to hit the world in moden history. Period. It has literally stopped the world in it's tracks. If you want to cruise get the damn vaccine and meet me at the bar so we can toast to the cruise we're about to partake in. Otherwise, dial up the port camera and watch us sail away. 

 

Don't be 'that' guy. 

 

See you at the Sunset Bar at sail away

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11 hours ago, Yoshikitty said:

 

 

Just do a little research about excess mortality and you‘ll see that your claim has almost no substance.

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-extra-people-in-the-us-so-far

 

 

Read the last few lines of the article. The writer states that there have been many more deaths occurred because of the virus. He also said "And it's not over yet."

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50 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Why would it matter to you whether anyone else has been vaccinated?

Though I'm suspect of the numbers, especially fatalities, for the next few years I will choose not to board any ship that does not require vaccination.  It's just not worth the risk.  I don't care if others don't get vaccinated.

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6 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I saw the same graphic and the numbers don't make sense to me.  There are 331 M people in the US.  Is it really true that almost a third are healthcare and essential workers?  Are the 21 million healthcare workers included in the 87 M essential workers?  Is it really true that almost a third of the country have high risk medical conditions?  I wonder what they consider high risk medical conditions?  It seems high to me.  53M over 65 seems right to me, I wonder how many of those people are included in the 100M high risk adults?

 

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Why would it matter to you whether anyone else has been vaccinated?

I opined on this question earlier.  Because one infection can can threaten everyone's experience through quarantine and ports turning us away.  Ports would be much more receptive, even Key West I suspect, to a ship sailing with vaxed-only passengers and crew. 

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1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Why would it matter to you whether anyone else has been vaccinated?

 

It doesn't matter to me at all tbh.  But I could see it being a requirement to allow passengers to disembark at certain ports so from that aspect hopefully cruise lines make it a policy to have immunization records so passengers that were wise enough to get the vaccine aren't limited option wise by others who refuse to get it.

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1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Why would it matter to you whether anyone else has been vaccinated?

You've asked that question previously on this thread and have received multiple responses. If you aren't happy with the answers, stop asking the question.

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On 11/29/2020 at 2:59 PM, OceanCruise said:
  • A total of 1.4 million people died from TB in 2019 (including 208 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

 

You are also skipping over critical facts from that same document that show why TB and COVID are not the same:

 

"But TB is curable and preventable."  

 

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I can see the anti-vaxxers becoming the new dismissed minority for their ignorance.  once approved and widely available, COVID 19 Vaccine  requirements will be mandatory for most international and even some domestic travel. If you want to be an anti-vaxxer and stay confined to your home or state for the next few years that is just fine, but we do not want to hear one complaint about it. We all live and die by the life decisions we make.

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7 hours ago, d9704011 said:

See the section ‘Groups Considered for Early Vaccination if the Supply is Limited’.  The inclusions in some of the groups can be quite broad.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations-process.html

 My wife falls under 2 of those conditions whereas I'm only under one of them:

 

  • People at high risk for severe COVID-19 illness due to underlying medical conditions
  • People 65 years and older

 

My wife is older than 65 and we both are diabetic.

 

Be that as it may, our only concern right now is being able to get vaccinated by the end of June, which I believe will be very possible.  Not only to provide us with the potential protection, but, for purely selfish reasons, we have a cruise where the final payment is due on July 29th.  I'll pay it if we're vaccinated by then.  If not, I cancel and move forward with a "back up" cruise that we have booked.  I won't take the position of "well, we might be vaccinated by the cruise..."  The only way we cruise now is with a vaccine being available and we've definitely been inoculated.  What others do is up to them. But I hope people aren't idiots and ignore science.  (Yeah, I know.....)

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16 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 My wife falls under 2 of those conditions whereas I'm only under one of them:

 

  • People at high risk for severe COVID-19 illness due to underlying medical conditions
  • People 65 years and older

 

My wife is older than 65 and we both are diabetic.

 

Be that as it may, our only concern right now is being able to get vaccinated by the end of June, which I believe will be very possible.  Not only to provide us with the potential protection, but, for purely selfish reasons, we have a cruise where the final payment is due on July 29th.  I'll pay it if we're vaccinated by then.  If not, I cancel and move forward with a "back up" cruise that we have booked.  I won't take the position of "well, we might be vaccinated by the cruise..."  The only way we cruise now is with a vaccine being available and we've definitely been inoculated.  What others do is up to them. But I hope people aren't idiots and ignore science.  (Yeah, I know.....)

We are in a similar boat (pun intended) with an August, 2021, ABC cruise.  When May final payment rolls around we'll cancel rather than throw good money after bad.

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20 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

No-one said anything was nefarious.  I simply stated the facts of how doctors has been instructed to complete death certificates in relation to Covid and stated my personal opinion that I question the accuracy of simply assessing known symptoms because so many are the same as colds, ILIs and Flu.

It's disingenuous imo to list Covid on the death certificate unless it is 100% tested and proven.

It's also disingenuous to list Covid on the certificate if the person was Covid positive 2-3 weeks before hand and subsequently got killed by something completely different.

 You are taking exceptions and treating as if they applied to the majority.

 

In the early days when testing was not available more entries were from clinical diagnosis.  Of course at that time the main thing that Doctors were looking for was viral Pneumonia.  At that time they also missed a number of items that we now know is related to COVID such as blood clots, strokes, kidney failure.  So while in the early days there were most likely some misdiagnosis concerning pneumonia deaths, there were also a number of cases from strokes and other indications that did not get classified as COVID because less was known about the illness at that time.

 

The cause of death information generally comes from the CDC wonder system, the multiple cause of death data base.  Some tried to take that data and say see the people died of other things and not Covid because only 6% of the entries only listed Covid.  Of course that indicates a major misunderstanding of both the data and the disease.  The 6%  that only listed Covid are really entries that do  not contain complete information.  

 

The reason why is COVID causes body systems and organs to fail.  It is the failure of one or more systems that leads to death.  The purpose of the database is to provide medical information showing how an illness progresses and impacts the body and eventually leads to death.  So if someone has Covid and it cause pneumonia the cause of death includes both. If someone has COVID and it causes a stroke, the cause of death includes both.  If someone has COVID, high blood pressure, obese, and COVID causes a heart attack it will list the multiple reasons.  

 

With any database of this size there will certainly be an error rate, but the level of those errors will be small compared to the size of the data base.

 

The data in this database provides very valuable medical information telling medical professionals what to watch for as disease progresses.

 

 

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I vividly recall Dr Birx stating in one of the task force briefings that physicians, hospitals, coroners, etc, were being instructed that if COVID existed at all then they should list it in the death certificate as causal.  I think a lot of folks interpreted that to mean it was the only cause of death - regardless of that gunshot wound to the head.

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27 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I can see the anti-vaxxers becoming the new dismissed minority for their ignorance.  once approved and widely available, COVID 19 Vaccine  requirements will be mandatory for most international and even some domestic travel. If you want to be an anti-vaxxer and stay confined to your home or state for the next few years that is just fine, but we do not want to hear one complaint about it. We all live and die by the life decisions we make.

I've read a few articles recently which suggest that the COVID anti-vaxxers may face a broader range of mandatory vaccine requirements than travel. One example cited was the possibility that some businesses with employees working from home might require them to be vaccinated if they wish to return to the office. Gyms might require their members to be vaccinated, and various clubs and organizations might place the same demands upon their members. The list goes on. There are a number of thorny legal and ethical questions still to be addressed, and the outcome will vary from locale to locale, but there is little doubt that the anti-vaxxers will become social pariahs in the months and years to come.   

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17 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

I vividly recall Dr Birx stating in one of the task force briefings that physicians, hospitals, coroners, etc, were being instructed that if COVID existed at all then they should list it in the death certificate as causal.  I think a lot of folks interpreted that to mean it was the only cause of death - regardless of that gunshot wound to the head.

 

This is not true.  COVID deaths are likely underestimated, especially in waves #2 and #3.  Please don't twist things to support your conspiracy theory:

 

INFLUENZA Virus Isolated

 

as you can see, COVID mortality is likely drastically underestimated, especially as this is turning out (like in Australia, who you may recall is in the southern hemisphere and has finished their winter and finished their 2020 flu season with like >90% reduction in flu) as probably the mildest flu season on record.

 

So please, stop spreading the lie that COVID deaths are overestimated.  They are underestimated. The end.

 

 

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