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Will vaccines now be required?


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5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Guilty, a weak moment on my part. :classic_wacko:

 

I do wish that CC would tweak the ignore function to include posts quoting people we ignore. Then they would be truly out of sight, out of mind.

but sometimes it is too hard to resist...

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7 hours ago, Pinboy said:

LOL--- I love reading posts from " trolls " . It gets my adrenalin going. 

( Better not mention names  here-- but, one is a  "Marketing Expert " making over $200 K,  but , can't write proper English  ).

Question,  since I'm still relatively new to this ----- Is it possible that the same person is able to post under different names on several threads ? 

 

One cannot judge either ones knowledge or job based on CC posts.  Considering that many of these posts are quickly done on cell phone type key boards that can generate strange auto correct results, the language used and presence of errors is not unusual.

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22 hours ago, nomad098 said:

I'm not trying to single anyone out but there seems to be a lot of coronavirus discrimination on these boards. There are reasons why people may not have the vaccine or are not wanting to have the first one on the market other than being an anti vaxxer.

 

Medical where another vaccine might be preferable, would one of the upcoming vaccines be better suited based upon age, gender, ethnicity and medical history, can you mix different vaccines?

 

Already had covid-19, would the vaccine be wasted on you 130 million wasted doses, any studies to show it would be safe if you had already had the disease. If having had covid-19 and it is shown to provide long term immunity what would the legal standpoint be if you have a adverse reaction to the vaccine.

 

Ethical considerations. The UK Government need to make ethical decisions in regards to the risk and benefits of a vaccine based on a variety of factors including age. Governments may decide on a cost basis that under a certain age you do not need to be vaccinated, unless medically required to do so, as covid-19 does not pose enough of a risk.

Children in the UK are not offered a chicken pox vaccination because the risk is so low, the same could be applied to covid-19 in children when long term outcomes of the vaccine are unknown.

 

Genuine concern in regards to long term effects, a 95% efficacy does not equate to safety, this does not make you an anti vaxxer.  

 

And probably more I have not covered.

 

On top of which the cruise lines want to get up and running and no one knows how long logistically it will take to get enough people vaccinated with a certificate to justify getting cruising going, how long do they wait.

 

If a person states because of a disability/religion I can not have the covid vaccine and your told you need to be vaccinated to cruise this opens the door to discrimination claims, why do you think they let so many emotional support animals on. Lawyers in the UK are already anticipating discrimination claims in regards to employment law  Cruise Lines may be able to insist on vaccination certificates sailing from and to the US but may find themselves in hot water in the rest of the world about 30% of their market

 

To discriminate based upon a first generation vaccine will probably make the lawyers very rich. 

 

Countries could make a vaccination certificate a requirement for movement in and out of their borders which would solve the problem but I think it will be a legal nightmare for businesses to put it in their T&C's

 

We have this problem in the UK with anti maskers and inconsiderate people claiming health exemptions for not wearing a mask in shops and legally the shops can not challenge them.

 

An interesting article from a UK perspective about vaccines and employment law

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/experts/advice/covid-19-vaccine-what-businesses-should-consider

 

 

 

 

Totally disagree. Threatening lawsuits isn't going to stop the Cruiselines from requiring the vaccine. In fact, I imagine it's the other way around. If someone gets Covid while on a ship and the vaccine is readilyavailable but not required or enforced... there will be a 'boatload' (pardon the pun) of cruisers reaching out to lawyers. 

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2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

An Oxford study believes the UK has already achieved herd immunity.  Not surprising given that lots of the public already had levels of immunity before COVID even came along.  They have T-cell immunity from past bouts of colds, ILIs, Flu and other Coronaviruses.

 

Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563


At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus


https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

 

 

Here's the article that references that Oxford study:

 

Oxford Study: Britain Has Reached Herd Immunity

https://order-order.com/2020/07/17/oxford-study-britain-has-reached-herd-immunity/

 

and here's the actual study it is talking about:


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v2.full.pdf

 

T cells are only part of the story. The same has not been proven with antibody response. Without both parts of the immune system fighting Covid 19, you do not have the immunity needed. Only 5 percent have shown the appropriate antibody response to Covid. That is far from herd immunity.

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2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

An Oxford study believes the UK has already achieved herd immunity.  Not surprising given that lots of the public already had levels of immunity before COVID even came along.  They have T-cell immunity from past bouts of colds, ILIs, Flu and other Coronaviruses.

 

Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563


At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus


https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

 

 

Here's the article that references that Oxford study:

 

Oxford Study: Britain Has Reached Herd Immunity

https://order-order.com/2020/07/17/oxford-study-britain-has-reached-herd-immunity/

 

and here's the actual study it is talking about:


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20154294v2.full.pdf

 

As usual you find some articles and then try and present them out of context.  For example the following article states: 

 

 “It still remains to be addressed whether this immune memory reactivity influences clinical outcomes and translates into some degrees of protection from more severe disease

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

 

So the studies indicate lab results but as of yet there is no conclusion on if the T cell response actually provides protection.  The next link deals with the same T Cell response and uses it to ask a number of questions which within the scope of the document and the current level of science remain unanswered

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

 

As far as herd immunity and the Oxford study

 

From the article there is a key line that with the current number of COVID cases would seem that the Oxford study and the assumption that only 20% would be necessary for herd immunity would be incorrect.  Since we now have the proof in the pudding

 

Unfortunately the proof in the pudding would be a second wave of Coronavirus, probably in the winter, which no one – however confident they are about herd immunity – would want to risk…

 

https://order-order.com/2020/07/17/oxford-study-britain-has-reached-herd-immunity/

 

Considering that this article and study was July.  They clearly were not correct in their assumptions based upon the current new case rates in the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, nocl said:

As usual you find some articles and then try and present them out of context.  For example the following article states: 

 

 “It still remains to be addressed whether this immune memory reactivity influences clinical outcomes and translates into some degrees of protection from more severe disease

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

 

So the studies indicate lab results but as of yet there is no conclusion on if the T cell response actually provides protection.  The next link deals with the same T Cell response and uses it to ask a number of questions which within the scope of the document and the current level of science remain unanswered

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

 

As far as herd immunity and the Oxford study

 

From the article there is a key line that with the current number of COVID cases would seem that the Oxford study and the assumption that only 20% would be necessary for herd immunity would be incorrect.  Since we now have the proof in the pudding

 

Unfortunately the proof in the pudding would be a second wave of Coronavirus, probably in the winter, which no one – however confident they are about herd immunity – would want to risk…

 

https://order-order.com/2020/07/17/oxford-study-britain-has-reached-herd-immunity/

 

Considering that this article and study was July.  They clearly were not correct in their assumptions based upon the current new case rates in the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

he/she clearly does not "KnowTheScore"...

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27 minutes ago, nocl said:

One cannot judge either ones knowledge or job based on CC posts.  Considering that many of these posts are quickly done on cell phone type key boards that can generate strange auto correct results, the language used and presence of errors is not unusual.

Oh, we ,ok, I can get a pretty good  " feeling " based on someone's posts.

The " Marketing Expert " term I used came directly from how the poster refers to himself on the posts he posts.   

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38 minutes ago, nocl said:

One cannot judge either ones knowledge or job based on CC posts.  Considering that many of these posts are quickly done on cell phone type key boards that can generate strange auto correct results, the language used and presence of errors is not unusual.

Ahh let's see, MBoy has said he is a cruise line marketing expert, (LOL), so please do tell how is it judging to mention that in a response??  Tell me, I am all ears, even though I am deaf in one of them.

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1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

Ahh let's see, MBoy has said he is a cruise line marketing expert, (LOL), so please do tell how is it judging to mention that in a response??  Tell me, I am all ears, even though I am deaf in one of them.

When the person posts

 

( Better not mention names  here-- but, one is a  "Marketing Expert " making over $200 K,  but , can't write proper English  ).

 

It certainly seems to be judging to me.  In context with the can't write proper English.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, nocl said:

When the person posts

 

( Better not mention names  here-- but, one is a  "Marketing Expert " making over $200 K,  but , can't write proper English  ).

 

It certainly seems to be judging to me.  In context with the can't write proper English.

 

 

You can mention my name it is OK with me.  You've seen what he has written, I will assume.  Besides his grammar, he has disparaged a certain segment, or rather multiple segments of society, which represents a large portion of the cruise line business that he purports to represent.  Get off your soap box and go back to telling us about vaccines.

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33 minutes ago, nocl said:

When the person posts

 

( Better not mention names  here-- but, one is a  "Marketing Expert " making over $200 K,  but , can't write proper English  ).

 

It certainly seems to be judging to me.  In context with the can't write proper English.

 

 

Oh and also never said he was "making over $200k", HE said cruise industry was paying $200k for marketing reports/surveys.  If you are going to contradict or fact check someone, it is perfectly fine, just make sure when you quote someone it is accurate.   

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2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Tin foil will be the least of the concerns when it comes to shortages. 

 

I do have a question though.

What % of the "wear the mask or don't cruise" are also anti-vaxers?  

 

Interesting question. I have always said that I would choose not to cruise if the mask rules didn't suit my personal definition of acceptable. I am definitely NOT an anti-vaxxer, my wife and I will definitely get vaccinated as soon as we are able to, depending on when we fit into the queue.

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3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

You can mention my name it is OK with me.  You've seen what he has written, I will assume.  Besides his grammar, he has disparaged a certain segment, or rather multiple segments of society, which represents a large portion of the cruise line business that he purports to represent.  Get off your soap box and go back to telling us about vaccines.

Except  the poster of the comment, that I responded to was Pinboy not you

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10 hours ago, nocl said:

Except  the poster of the comment, that I responded to was Pinboy not you

nocl, pinboy, LGW59 there are many good posts from all of you on these CC boards IMO.  But I also can see that even very good posters can sometimes get caught up in the web being spun by a troll.  I have just used my Ignore button with this one.

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14 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

T cells are only part of the story. The same has not been proven with antibody response. Without both parts of the immune system fighting Covid 19, you do not have the immunity needed. Only 5 percent have shown the appropriate antibody response to Covid. That is far from herd immunity.

larry_s_taco,  you are more than welcome to join us on this thread below if you would like to discuss some science of vaccines, COVID, etc.  

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2755191-are-vaccines-the-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel/page/60/

 

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This is what was recommended by the CDC panel that met yesterday in the US on who gets the vaccine initially.  But in the US this is actually a non-binding recommendation.  It is actually still up to the individual states unfortunately IMO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/covid-vaccine-cdc-panel-says-health-workers-nursing-homes-will-get-vaccine-first.html?__twitter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal

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Vaccination against COVID-19 or its latest strain will be a requirement to cruise.  Those who don't have a vaccination, now called "zombies," will not be permitted on board.  Period!  And its possible that, like "common" flu, annual vaccination updates will be required.  Countries to they today and it was prevalent around the world post WWII - requiring proof of selected prophylaxis to enter.  

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In the very unlikely event that some cruise lines let passengers board without a vaccine, the ports and country entry points and airlines and airports might in fact require vaccination proof.  We will be living in a very cautious world the next few years.  Let's not fight it- just get vaccinated for all of our sakes!

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1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Let's not fight it- just get vaccinated for all of our sakes!

I couldn't agree more with your statement above. 

( From a previous post , I'm not sure if I am on your Ignore list ).

 

 

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