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Emotional support animals will no longer be considered service animals on flights, DOT decides


Wine-O
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I think I remember Royal wasn't allowing emotional support animals on board their ships but grandfathered some who have already booked.  That should be expired by now I would think.    I don't mind at all a seeing-eye dog on board, but Foo-Foo being rolled around in a stroller is just a bit too much.  Airlines mandate that the animal be harnessed, leashed, or tethered at all times on the plane.  The same should apply to service animals -- no petting allowed.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/dot-says-emotional-support-animals-flights  🍷

 

 

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32 minutes ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

And the fine print takes requires proof.

 

Moving forward, the department is allowing airlines to require DOT-approved forms affirming a service animal's health, behavior and training before travel, and allowing carriers to cap the number of service animals traveling with a single passenger at two.

 

No more savings from not having to put Fluffy in a pet care center while cruising.

 

That will be challenged quickly as  the ADA specifically limits questions to two questions; "Is that a service dog?" and What service does it provide? You are not allowed to ask about training, require a demonstration of training, ask about the disability, or anything else but those two questions.

 

You can require proof of vaccination and people may be ask to remove their service dog if misbehaving such as excessive barking.

 

ESAs are different in that they are not covered by the ADA. However there are other specific regulations in regards to flight that cover ESAs.

 

Edited by cured
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4 minutes ago, cured said:

That will be challenged quickly as  the ADA specifically limits questions to two questions; "Is that a service dog?" and What service does it provide? You are not allowed to ask about training, require a demonstration of training, ask about the disability, or anything else but those two questions.

 

You can require proof of vaccination and people may be ask to remove their service dog if misbehaving such as excessive barking.

 

ESAs are different. They are not considered service dogs and as such they are not covered by the ADA. However there are other specific regulations in regards to flight that cover ESAs.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, cured said:

That will be challenged quickly as  the ADA specifically limits questions to two questions; "Is that a service dog?" and What service does it provide? You are not allowed to ask about training, require a demonstration of training, ask about the disability, or anything else but those two questions.

 

You can require proof of vaccination and people may be ask to remove their service dog if misbehaving such as excessive barking.

 

ESAs are different in that they are not covered by the ADA. However there are other specific regulations in regards to flight that cover ESAs.

 

Why do you feel it will be challenged in court? It’s not a privet company thats making a change to the rules, it’s the government that made the change.

Edited by mworkman
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I am so tired of anyone and everyone buying an ESA certificate and harness for any dog, then thinking that gives them the same rights as a service dog. A service dog must be trained to provide a specific service., and it is quite expensive. You can't just buy the same thing for any dog you want 🙄

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2 hours ago, cured said:

That will be challenged quickly as  the ADA specifically limits questions to two questions; "Is that a service dog?" and What service does it provide? You are not allowed to ask about training, require a demonstration of training, ask about the disability, or anything else but those two questions.

 

You can require proof of vaccination and people may be ask to remove their service dog if misbehaving such as excessive barking.

 

ESAs are different in that they are not covered by the ADA. However there are other specific regulations in regards to flight that cover ESAs.

 

 

I think the ADA doesn't apply, it's the ACAA.

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I did Uber airport runs a few years back... and when I would see my rider approach the car w/ a dog and he/she wasn't blind, I'd just keep rolling. It's a scary world out there and if one was so emotionally unstable they needed a dog to get or off a jet, they were not about to get in my car for a long drive into or from the city. I don't deal w/ crazies. 

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17 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I did Uber airport runs a few years back... and when I would see my rider approach the car w/ a dog and he/she wasn't blind, I'd just keep rolling. It's a scary world out there and if one was so emotionally unstable they needed a dog to get or off a jet, they were not about to get in my car for a long drive into or from the city. I don't deal w/ crazies. 

What about emotional support bird's 🤣

http://bloga350.blogspot.com/20http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-b49F_YRGkD0/VKBj_wH3MSI/AAAAAAAAWx0/JWFHzkngSak/s1600/image.jpg15/01/falcons-permitted-onboard-qatar-airways.html

 

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27 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I did Uber airport runs a few years back... and when I would see my rider approach the car w/ a dog and he/she wasn't blind, I'd just keep rolling. It's a scary world out there and if one was so emotionally unstable they needed a dog to get or off a jet, they were not about to get in my car for a long drive into or from the city. I don't deal w/ crazies. 

I totally get what you are saying and I have a “thing” about ESAs. (I don’t approve of them in public places.)  However my son has PTSD from some previous trauma and has a service dog. (And that is why I don’t like ESAs. The dog has been attacked twice by supposed ESAs, once was a bite that broke the skin.) So do many ex-military people. They don’t look like they need a dog but they do. There are also medical alert dogs who are very highly trained. This is just an FYI. Not all service dogs are guide dogs. My son’s dog has perfect behavior in his vest. Take it off and he’s a big goof ball, but when he goes to “work” he is 100% focused. 

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5 minutes ago, momof3cruisers said:

I totally get what you are saying and I have a “thing” about ESAs. (I don’t approve of them in public places.)  However my son has PTSD from some previous trauma and has a service dog. (And that is why I don’t like ESAs. The dog has been attacked twice by supposed ESAs, once was a bite that broke the skin.) So do many ex-military people. They don’t look like they need a dog but they do. There are also medical alert dogs who are very highly trained. This is just an FYI. Not all service dogs are guide dogs. My son’s dog has perfect behavior in his vest. Take it off and he’s a big goof ball, but when he goes to “work” he is 100% focused. 

 

First I appreciate your feedback and my thanks to your son for serving. My son served in combat duty as well. Having said that, as a former Uber driver, it didn't happen in my car. I simply could not allow a dog in my car unless it was an eye seeing dog. 

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1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I did Uber airport runs a few years back... and when I would see my rider approach the car w/ a dog and he/she wasn't blind, I'd just keep rolling. It's a scary world out there and if one was so emotionally unstable they needed a dog to get or off a jet, they were not about to get in my car for a long drive into or from the city. I don't deal w/ crazies. 

 

42 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

First I appreciate your feedback and my thanks to your son for serving. My son served in combat duty as well. Having said that, as a former Uber driver, it didn't happen in my car. I simply could not allow a dog in my car unless it was an eye seeing dog. 

Why not?  If it is a properly certified service dog, doesn't matter if it is is for a blind person vs it is for serving a PTSD person vs a service dog trained to detect and upcoming medical condition (diabetes etc).

 

I definitely agree with people abusing the emotional sport animal which should be curtailed.

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1 hour ago, momof3cruisers said:

I totally get what you are saying and I have a “thing” about ESAs. (I don’t approve of them in public places.)  However my son has PTSD from some previous trauma and has a service dog. (And that is why I don’t like ESAs. The dog has been attacked twice by supposed ESAs, once was a bite that broke the skin.) So do many ex-military people. They don’t look like they need a dog but they do. There are also medical alert dogs who are very highly trained. This is just an FYI. Not all service dogs are guide dogs. My son’s dog has perfect behavior in his vest. Take it off and he’s a big goof ball, but when he goes to “work” he is 100% focused. 

 

Thank him for his service. I am  Navy Veteran.

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1 hour ago, momof3cruisers said:

I totally get what you are saying and I have a “thing” about ESAs. (I don’t approve of them in public places.)  However my son has PTSD from some previous trauma and has a service dog. (And that is why I don’t like ESAs. The dog has been attacked twice by supposed ESAs, once was a bite that broke the skin.) So do many ex-military people. They don’t look like they need a dog but they do. There are also medical alert dogs who are very highly trained. This is just an FYI. Not all service dogs are guide dogs. My son’s dog has perfect behavior in his vest. Take it off and he’s a big goof ball, but when he goes to “work” he is 100% focused. 

 

And that's how it should be. Sadly many try to say their dog is a service dog when they're really a pet. Agree that ESAs.....or those masquerading as Service Dogs....have made it difficult for those with a genuine Service Dog. 

Edited by suzyluvs2cruise
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8 minutes ago, gatour said:

 

Why not?  If it is a properly certified service dog, doesn't matter if it is is for a blind person vs it is for serving a PTSD person vs a service dog trained to detect and upcoming medical condition (diabetes etc).

 

I definitely agree with people abusing the emotional sport animal which should be curtailed.

 

It mattered to me. And it was my call. Admittedly, I didn't have the expertise to sort out the good guys from the abusers. So until someone got a handle on the BS, I just didn't deal w/ it. It's a shame but there are some dangerous people out there can ruin another's need real fast and this is what has happened. My safety was far more important than someone's dog. That's the way I rolled. 

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2 hours ago, P_and_L said:

 

I think the ADA doesn't apply, it's the ACAA.

Yup, the OP was switching back and forth between service dogs and ESA's. There is a lot of confusion for some about the difference between service dogs and emotional support animals.  Technically a service dog and an emotional support animal are two completely different things and covered differently. Service dogs are covered under the ADA. Emotional support animals are not covered by the ADA. ACAA covers both Service Dogs and ESAs. However, the ACAA does not take precedence over the ADA in what the airline can ask about actual service dogs.

 

Service dogs are trained, either by a professional trainer or the owner, to perform a specific task to help that person.  There are many types of official service dogs. People are most familiar with seeing, hearing, and service dogs for people in wheelchairs.

 

Emotional support animals provide comfort for people with things like extreme anxiety. Because they are not service dogs and not covered under the ADA as service dogs, they do not need any specific training.  They are there to provide comfort, period. They do not perform a specific helping task. So, asking about training is a moot point.

 

If airlines start asking questions about training of a service dog, they are going to be in violation of the ADA.  They can ask 2 questions: Is this a service dog and what service has the dog been trained to perform (sight, hearing, fetching dropped objects for a person in a wheel chair.) You cannot require a training certificate, ask how or who trained the dog, ask about the disability that the dog is helping, or anything except for those 2 specific questions.

 

If the OP meant ESAs and not service dogs, then yes, only the ACAA regulates those. And I hope in all sincerity they crack down on people bringing their pocket pups on board claiming they are ESAs. It only hurts the people who have a legitimate need for a service dog or an ESA.

 

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/service-animals-including-emotional-support-animals

 

 

 

Edited by cured
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1 hour ago, hannibal54 said:

Hopefully it happens, they take care of dogs but don't think of the people who are allergic to dogs like me.

Unfortunately, the ADA does not consider allergies as a reason to deny access to a service dog.  An ESA, yes, a service dog, no.  On a plane, that means that the allergic person and the service dog would be spaced at opposite ends of the plane.

  • Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.
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2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I did Uber airport runs a few years back... and when I would see my rider approach the car w/ a dog and he/she wasn't blind, I'd just keep rolling. It's a scary world out there and if one was so emotionally unstable they needed a dog to get or off a jet, they were not about to get in my car for a long drive into or from the city. I don't deal w/ crazies. 

Some service dogs do not actually look like what is typically thought of as a service dog. Not all service dogs are seeing eye dogs.

 

A friend of ours has a little dog that is specifically trained as a seizure dog.  The dog will alert his owner when he senses a seizure coming on so that the owner can get to a safe position. For him, it works to have a little dog that he can carry and the dog can easily alert him.  Many people think his dog is just one of the fake pocket pooches that people carry around.

 

There are many different kinds and shapes of service dogs trained for all kinds of different thinks. There are diabetic alert dogs (a puppy we sold went to a 10 year old little girl and was going to be trained as her diabetic alert dog.) There are PTSD service dogs, psychiatric service dogs, etc.  These dogs differ from Emotional support animals in that they are trained to do a task. For instance, a PTSD ESA will provide comfort to a person with PTSD. A PTSD Service dog may be trained to move an owner from a potentially triggering situation. It may be trained to get between his owner and a person if the owner suffers from anxiety when someone gets in their bubble. 

 

A service dog is trained, an esa is not. That is not to say that an ESA is allowed to misbehave. A true ESA is often highly obedience trained so that it has the utmost of manners in any situation. A TRUE ESA will not be barking, snapping, peeing or wandering everywhere. 

 

Be careful in denying service to someone with a service animal.  It can earn you some big fines. You can ask if the dog is a service dog and then ask what service it is trained to do. If they can't answer those two questions, the dog is not a service dog and is not covered under the ADA.

Edited by cured
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15 minutes ago, LorraineP said:

I personally don’t want to pay for a cabin that has been occupied by any dog. I don’t stay at hotels that are pet friendly either. 

Service dogs are not pets. Even non-pet friendly hotels must allow service dogs.  They do not have to allow ESAs but the ADA questions are so strict that many businesses don't want to deal with it and will take your word for it if you say Fluffy is a service animal.  This is what has led to the abuse of fake ESAs showing up everywhere.

 

Cruise ships also have to allow service dogs. They can deny ESAs but cannot, under the ADA, discriminate against an individual that needs a service dog. So, while rare, you may just stay in a cabin that has had a true service dog in it.

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1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Is a bird an animal?  If so, then it applies. 
 

M8

Have been training him to poop over the railing insted of the deck , but has a issue of laughing at daybreak .20201203_123406.thumb.jpg.618edff3181e6014e2186393093e8b5e.jpg

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