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I guess ports of call really don't want our money after all.


kangforpres
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10 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

I absolutely love Alaska as I was lucky to see Alaska like a local, rather than as a big cruise ship passenger.  I travelled on the Alaskan Marine Highway staying three nights at a lot of the ports.  After the four or five big tourist ships left port in the evening, each town became alive with locals.  On the taxi ride in to town from the ferry ports, I would chat to the taxi driver.  I learnt many of the problems of mass tourism.  I learnt most of the people who worked in the tourist shops came from out of town and left after the last cruise ship of the season in September.  

In addition to cruising, we rented a car in Ancorage, as well as a truck camper to stay in National Parks.  Alaska has so much to offer tourists which can't be seen on a day trip from a ship.  

This is true about so many ports. It is the reason why, since retiring, we are spending far more time doing independent land trips and buying less and less cruises.

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Ports, less and less. 

Land trips oh yes, and if they happen to be a port stop, we check the impact of the cruise itinerary. The land trips is where you get the deep dive into a destination. Cruises not and especially if the cruise lines use the virus to not allow independent activity - that will equal - 0 cruises going forward.

 

It is up to each community (like Key West) to decide their future, particularly due to the impact of the ever larger ships, but that may change going forward.

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23 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I absolutely love Alaska as I was lucky to see Alaska like a local, rather than as a big cruise ship passenger.  I travelled on the Alaskan Marine Highway staying three nights at a lot of the ports.  After the four or five big tourist ships left port in the evening, each town became alive with locals.  On the taxi ride in to town from the ferry ports, I would chat to the taxi driver.  I learnt many of the problems of mass tourism.  I learnt most of the people who worked in the tourist shops came from out of town and left after the last cruise ship of the season in September.  

In addition to cruising, we rented a car in Ancorage, as well as a truck camper to stay in National Parks.  Alaska has so much to offer tourists which can't be seen on a day trip from a ship.  

Very true about the shops.  There are certain shops (often eyesores) that primarily exist to do business with cruise passengers.  Probably the best known is Diamonds International which is a NYC based company that only puts stores in cruise ports.  Perhaps that is because few folks shop at DI other then cruise passengers and a few other tourists.  We chatted with a couple of DI employees at an Alaskan store and they told us in the winter they worked at a Caribbean store and in the summer they moved to an Alaskan store.  Their shop employed very few locals.  In Puerto Vallarta (where I live part of the year) I know when a ship is coming into the port because the DI store will often have their 2nd floor lights on very early (sales meeting) before they open the store (early) to handle the cruise excursions.  When ships are not in town that DI store is usually empty as we walk by.  

 

I agree with you about Alaska.  When we were in Alaska 18 months ago we flew into Anchorage, rented a car, and took our time driving to Healy where we spent a few days exploring the Denali area.  Healy is where many of the Denali workers live and there are few cruise passengers since most of them are in one particular village that was constructed just for cruise passengers.  Denali was fantastic because we were on our own, could go at our own pace, had plenty of time for hiking, etc.  When we saw the hoards (called cruise line excursions) we went the opposite direction.  DW and I do love to cruise, but when it comes to ports we do our best to handle things on our own and avoid being stuck in a large group.  

 

Hank

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:45 AM, kangforpres said:

 

 

When cruisers stop in your port and spend money in generates revenue through taxes for your local services (as overburden by tourism as they may be) It's a catch 22.

 

That depends what country you live in. I live on the island of Cozumel, Mexico. We also have a lot of anti-cruise people, many dive shop and fishing boat owners that have actually lost business with so many ships. I am in the middle, being a cruiser, I don't mind cruise ships. I also don't like to go somewhere that has 41 cruise ships a week like we did before the pandemic started. Mexico will welcome cruisers back. We only closed for the months of April and May. But as far as money generated, Cozumel the island actually takes a loss and we are always in debt. The cruise ship business revenue goes to the federal government, not that much here. Yes tour guides and shop owners do profit, but the infrastructure we need to provide as a city to have so many ships actually cost us money. I do hope that we won't get quite so many when it all comes back.

 

 

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The economic value of cruisers to a city depends largely on whether it is an embark/ debark port, or just a port of call. One gets the income from pre and post cruise stays, activities, dining, and pre cruise supply shopping. Not to mention the port authority jobs and revenue. The larger the ship the greater the income generated.
Ports of call get overrun by sudden crowds who eat and sleep on board and spend little that doesn’t kick back to the cruise lines. The larger the ship the greater the mess. The value Fort Lauderdale and Key West get from the same cruise is huge. It’s understandable that Key West takes a dim view of large ships.

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1 hour ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

The economic value of cruisers to a city depends largely on whether it is an embark/ debark port, or just a port of call. One gets the income from pre and post cruise stays, activities, dining, and pre cruise supply shopping. Not to mention the port authority jobs and revenue. The larger the ship the greater the income generated.
Ports of call get overrun by sudden crowds who eat and sleep on board and spend little that doesn’t kick back to the cruise lines. The larger the ship the greater the mess. The value Fort Lauderdale and Key West get from the same cruise is huge. It’s understandable that Key West takes a dim view of large ships.

 

You make a good point here.  Key West (all the FL Keys, actually) is very popular for pre and post cruise stays.  These are the tourists the Keys favor because they spend time...and money...in businesses actually owned by locals.  KW usually gets the hotel and a couple days business profit, while shops, restaurants, and State Parks all down the Keys benefit from the drive in and out.  

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5 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

The economic value of cruisers to a city depends largely on whether it is an embark/ debark port, or just a port of call. One gets the income from pre and post cruise stays, activities, dining, and pre cruise supply shopping. Not to mention the port authority jobs and revenue. The larger the ship the greater the income generated.
Ports of call get overrun by sudden crowds who eat and sleep on board and spend little that doesn’t kick back to the cruise lines. The larger the ship the greater the mess. The value Fort Lauderdale and Key West get from the same cruise is huge. It’s understandable that Key West takes a dim view of large ships.

Excellent post and perceptive.

 

Hank

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I forgot whether I am a three star or 4 star, but in my experience - mostly in Asia or European cruises, the ship would dock and presumably pay port charges, a bulk of the passengers will go on ship-excursions and return to the ship and eat onboard and spend a lot of time in the afternoon napping or in the port itself catching up with e-mail or searching the web.

 

Where is the benefit to the town?

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On 12/20/2020 at 5:08 PM, kangforpres said:

Just saw this in the Guardian, I knew Key West, Venice and some other ports have always had a strong anti-cruiser sentiment. But I guess it's growing more.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/dec/20/coronavirus-cruise-ships-lines-key-west-juneau?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=fb_us&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR24e1m6YufoB1EJo1rCyXAjSEPB1XyvXsllKTRyQDVUEF4_bzqqF6Fn3K4#Echobox=1608479529

 

-Paul

 

 

This article, like so many others, is badly flawed.  Air pollution from a docked cruise ship can be avoided by offering electrical power from the local grid while in port.  This is done in my city of San Diego, California with great results. 

 

igraf

 

 

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2 hours ago, igraf said:

 

 

This article, like so many others, is badly flawed.  Air pollution from a docked cruise ship can be avoided by offering electrical power from the local grid while in port.  This is done in my city of San Diego, California with great results. 

 

igraf

 

 

Yes, more and more ports are putting in the proper infrastructure and hookups to provide shore-based power for ships.  But this is only one aspect.   The issue in Key West had to do with large ships stirring up bottom silt leaving the water cloudy.  There is also a lot of concern about potential damage to some nearby reefs (the cruise lines actually wanted to dredge a wider/deeper channel which would have damaged a reef).  In Key West the particular referendum that spoke to cruise ships and the environment actually got over 80% of the vote!  

 

In Venice Italy the main issue has been the overpressure (in the water) from large vessels that damages the fragile building foundations/infrastructure that lines the Giudecca Canal.  And there is also the fear of a terrible accident if a ship loses steering or makes a navigation error (this happened when the MSC Opera  smashed into a docked tourist boat injuring 4).  There have been other accidents involving large cruise ships off of Santorini and St Maarten.  Bottom line is that the really huge ships generate more attention because of their size and simply empower the anti-cruise folks to fight for restrictions.  The fact that cruise lines keep pushing excursions (which put little money in the pocket of locals) also works against the cruise lines.  The restaurants where we dine in Key West do not benefit from the cruise ships nor do any of the hotels.

 

Hank

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10 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There is also a lot of concern about potential damage to some nearby reefs (the cruise lines actually wanted to dredge a wider/deeper channel which would have damaged a reef). Key West the particular referendum that spoke to cruise ships and the environment actually got over 80% of the vote!  

 

And not just because of the ships themselves, but also because of the hoards of people taking catamaran reef snorkeling trips...hoards of people who touch, stand on, and take souvenirs from the reef.  The reefs closest to KW...Sand Key, Sambos, and Dry Rocks...have changed dramatically over the years.  There's been just too many people on them.  The reefs up the Keys which do not get cruise ship traffic, like Looe Key, have maintained their life and beauty much better.  

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Nothing wrong with not wanting cruise ships as it is so true that sometimes these new sea monsters overfill small places. 
 

It’s to the company to adjust themselves or find other places that will accept them.

 

Sea YA

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6 hours ago, nimiq said:

Nothing wrong with not wanting cruise ships as it is so true that sometimes these new sea monsters overfill small places. 
 

It’s to the company to adjust themselves or find other places that will accept them.

 

Sea YA

Or start building smaller ships.

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9 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

And not just because of the ships themselves, but also because of the hoards of people taking catamaran reef snorkeling trips...hoards of people who touch, stand on, and take souvenirs from the reef.  The reefs closest to KW...Sand Key, Sambos, and Dry Rocks...have changed dramatically over the years.  There's been just too many people on them.  The reefs up the Keys which do not get cruise ship traffic, like Looe Key, have maintained their life and beauty much better.  

OMG, that is a pet peeve.  DW and I love the water whether we are swimming, snorkeling, or SCUBA diving.   We have taken a couple of transpacific cruises that stopped at multiple South Pacific Islands with perfect water and excellent reefs.  On islands where the reefs are close to shore in shallow water we have often seen fellow cruisers standing and even walking right on the reefs.  It is so sad that I want to scream at those folks but it would be a waste of breath.  On Bora Bora I watched a fellow cruiser break off a mature piece of Elk Coral (which probably had been growing for over 50 years).  It is not only cruisers who do that kind of thing but the large numbers of cruisers really add to the damage.

 

Hank

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