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Azamara cruise line sold


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Wow! I don’t get it. If Azamara was a stand alone company with 20 year old ships with little support from its owners who really don’t care about the future of the company, and it was bought by RCL or Carnival, the opinions would be very different. Most people would be relieved saying how the expertise of the new owners with the huge amounts of available Capital to inject (maybe new ships) is great news. I remember some people saying last spring how there was no way RCL would part with such a profitable and great cruise line. Well they did. Must not have been as profitable and great as they thought.

 

some people will only see the positive because any other perspective does not make them feel good.

 

I love Azamara and hope one day to be their customer again. It was never going to happen under RCL ownership because you only get to burn me once. I hope the new owners can make it better. Buying another 20 year old sister ship is not what gives me hope. If Pacific Princess does not go to Azamara then this is a positive sign. Waiting to hear future plans on new builds will give me hope. That’s serious investment and a positive move.

 

if indeed Sycamore bought Azamara at a discount, it may want to take the savings on the purchase price and invest it into a fund that spends the time and money reaching out to loyal customers who have left Azamara while I’ll treated by RCL.

 

RCL treated many loyal customers very badly and I have always stated that this was the most glaring sign that RCL had no long term interest in the Azamara brand. Saying this many months ago got me huge pushback from the Fanboys. 
 

 

Edited by MakingUpForLostTime
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There is also now a freedom of movement for Azamara which they did not have with RCL. What I mean is that, under the RCL umbrella, they were 'hemmed in' by Celebrity and Silversea in the hierarchy - they could not really change (up or down) the level of their offering. The itinerary driven market at a premium level was really where they were stuck. In the medium to long term they could move their offering in any way they choose. This could be a good or bad thing. In the short(er) term they need to concentrate on getting back loyal customers and attracting disenchanted customers from other lines. Time may tell.

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2 hours ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

 

RCL treated many loyal customers very badly and I have always stated that this was the most glaring sign that RCL had no long term interest in the Azamara brand. Saying this many months ago got me huge pushback from the Fanboys. 
 

Don't feel bad about that. XX has been doing the same to their "loyal" customers.  The chickens have finally come home to roost.  People are also abandoning XX with their All Inclusive pricing scam.

 

They now are targeting the novice, younger cruiser who won't know how they cut corners to boost the bottom line while doubling the fares.  That's the RCG double/double program.

2 hours ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

 In the short(er) term they need to concentrate on getting back loyal customers and attracting disenchanted customers from other lines. Time may tell.

Yes!

if they spend more effort and money to do this, then the mere act will shape the company ideology which in return will be the single largest contributor to their long term success. This will define their success. You can spend millions attracting new customers to old ships or solidifying your loyal relationships if the past to save your future. They will be competing against RCL who has the experience and customer database that used to move customers up the food chain to Azamara. Many of those future customers will now go to Silversea

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26 minutes ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

Many of those future customers will now go to Silversea

Some undoubtable will.  Many, many more will not. We, for example have absolutely no desire to sail Silversea.  Not for their pricing, not for their "ambiance" and definitely not for their 1990s mismash of formal, informal and casual dress standards.  We typically only sail longer itineraries, so our packing would need to accommodate something like this for a 15 day sailing. 

 

Formal    Informal    Casual

3               8                 4

 

And it is a huge leap from Celebrity to Silversea, even with their ill advised "all included" nonsense.

Edited by ECCruise
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1 minute ago, ECCruise said:

Some undoubtable will.  Many, many more will not. We, for example have absolutely no desire to sail Silversea.  Not for their pricing, not for their "ambiance" and definitely not for their 1990s mismash of formal, informal and casual dress standards.  We typically only sail longer itineraries, so our packing would need to accommodate something like this for a 15 day sailing. 

 

Formal    Informal    Casual

3               8                 4

 

And it is a huge leap from Celebrity to Silversea, even with their ill advised "all included" nonsense.

Perhaps RCL knew Azamara was done and the time was right to cash out any money and write if off, with future plans of starting a new cruise line with newer ships to cater to the premium market. RCL has the experience to start another cruise line to compete directly with Azamara and their 3 maybe 4 - 20 year old ships? RCL would never be stupid enough to sign a non-compete for that segment. This could be a smart move. Some Azamara customers will move to Silversea and some are ok with Celebrity. Yes some will not. New Azamara owners have a lot to consider how they tackle all of this.

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1 hour ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

Perhaps RCL knew Azamara was done and the time was right to cash out any money and write if off, with future plans of starting a new cruise line with newer ships to cater to the premium market. RCL has the experience to start another cruise line to compete directly with Azamara and their 3 maybe 4 - 20 year old ships? RCL would never be stupid enough to sign a non-compete for that segment. This could be a smart move. Some Azamara customers will move to Silversea and some are ok with Celebrity. Yes some will not. New Azamara owners have a lot to consider how they tackle all of this.

No way does RCG start a new premium line to compete with Azamara.  Maybe you would see that competition in 5 years.  At best.  To what end?  I am just not in the "old bad, new good" camp in any way.  Obviously, that is your focus, since you bring it up constantly, and that is fine and valid.

 

I think we need to remember why Azamara even existed at all in the RCG (nee RCL) stable.  It was because  FDR rebuffed them in the purchase of Oceania, they got their feelings hurt, and said "OK, we will compete with you at your game." Voila, Azamara as a separate entity. 

 

So maybe selling a likely profitable division at a fire sale price and building $2-3 billion dollars of new inventory isn't as far fetched as my initial reaction indicated.

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4 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

No way does RCG start a new premium line to compete with Azamara.  Maybe you would see that competition in 5 years.  At best.  To what end?  I am just not in the "old bad, new good" camp in any way.  Obviously, that is your focus, since you bring it up constantly, and that is fine and valid.

 

I think we need to remember why Azamara even existed at all in the RCG (nee RCL) stable.  It was because  FDR rebuffed them in the purchase of Oceania, they got their feelings hurt, and said "OK, we will compete with you at your game." Voila, Azamara as a separate entity. 

 

So maybe selling a likely profitable division at a fire sale price and building $2-3 billion dollars of new inventory isn't as far fetched as my initial reaction indicated.

I am in the “reality camp” not the “let’s attack anyone who is not positive like us” camp.

On one hand you say “no way” and the next sentence you say “Maybe...in 5 years”. I can’t comprehend contradiction at the expense of potential business focus and shift.

You mention profitable? Please provide some facts around this claim.

Much appreciated.

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2 minutes ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

I am in the “reality camp” not the “let’s attack anyone who is not positive like us” camp.

On one hand you say “no way” and the next sentence you say “Maybe...in 5 years”. I can’t comprehend contradiction at the expense of potential business focus and shift.

You mention profitable? Please provide some facts around this claim.

Much appreciated.

1) No one is attacking you.  I actually called your points "fine and valid."  Sensitive parchance? 

2) The 5 years at best was WHY I said "no way."

3) I clearly said "likely profitable" based on per diems and load factors.  I do not have the financials, nor do you.

4) CC has a cool feature.

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Just now, ECCruise said:

1) No one is attacking you.  I actually called your points "fine and valid."  Sensitive parchance? 

2) The 5 years at best was WHY I said "no way."

3) I clearly said "likely profitable" based on per diems and load factors.  I do not have the financials, nor do you.

4) CC has a cool feature.

Sorry, my apologies. There are a few people on this thread who do attack. You are not one of them.

i believe every possibility is on the table. I like to discuss those possibilities based on past experience and fact. There is a possibility and for good reason that RCG could enter this space again and not to far off which could be the end of Azamara. In my opinion RCG not making Azamara equal in its growth strategy (new ships) was a mistake. I believe they are doing the right thing today and we may be surprised tomorrow.

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I cannot help but to keep coming back to the timing of the Celebrity move to 'all inclusive-ish' as per Azamara's offering. It indicates to me that (as I suggested upthread) that RCG see Celebrity as their 'premium' product going forward. Where I feel RCG are missing the point somewhat is their obsession with the bigger ships. They don't quite get that there is a section of the cruise market who want the older, smaller, more classic ships with their ability to do the smaller ports hence the more interesting itineraries. Celebrity are either big ships (3000+ pax) or tiny expedition ships - nothing in between.

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13 minutes ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

How many times has Azamara changed its name and loyalty program name? It’s like they never really could make it fit.

Maybe it was their former owners who were not giving them the space or permission to find a fit and now they have that opportunity?

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When I find myself in the middle of an argument on the internet, it's good to step back and think:  what is my goal?  If I 'win' this argument, is that going to influence the events we're arguing about?

 

PS – In the history of the internet, no one has ever won an argument...

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8 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

When I find myself in the middle of an argument on the internet, it's good to step back and think:  what is my goal?  If I 'win' this argument, is that going to influence the events we're arguing about?

 

PS – In the history of the internet, no one has ever won an argument...

You are absolutely right! So many experts, all with opinions but not one has any inside knowledge.

 

By the way, "Lost Time", that bug is VERY annoying!

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12 minutes ago, avw said:

 

By the way, "Lost Time", that bug is VERY annoying!

Finally..........  i thought I was the only one who hated the bug.  It is soooo distracting that I put the poster on my ignore list, so I no longer have to put up with the annoying bug.

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1 hour ago, uktog said:

Maybe it was their former owners who were not giving them the space or permission to find a fit and now they have that opportunity?

Could be. Problem for me is that if the second largest cruise company in the world could not make it fit, how is it that Sycamore can? Seems that a lot of benefit of the doubt is in play here where common sense would lead to other conclusions. The only thing that is being taken for granted is that they got a good deal. We don’t know what liabilities is being assumed by the new company other than deposits and paid cruises. Will those deposits be placed into a trust account or is the liability being offset to lower the cost per vessel? So much risk for FCC holders during uncertain times and for the short term future. This requires very deep pockets.

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4 minutes ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

What bug?

Thank you for changing that annoying avatar.

 

Personally speaking, as a member of several different forums, if I see that avatar (which is annoyingly common), I immediately think "stirrer, troll, etc.. It is a good combat indicator (I'm not aiming this at you - it is a general observation).

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22 minutes ago, avw said:So many experts, all with opinions but not one has any inside knowledge.

The mere fact you stated that no one has inside knowledge is interesting. Is that assumption based on fact or is that your opinion?

I prefer to show respect for those with credible track records. The beauty is that all our posts are available in our history. When people make predictions and they come to fruition, Is that luck, inside knowledge or expertise? I like discussions that test our ability to think outside the box and really have no use for mediocrity. I am not looking for an I told you so, however a little respect for people who challenge and push the bounds would be nice

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2 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

Thank you for changing that annoying avatar.

 

Personally speaking, as a member of several different forums, if I see that avatar (which is annoyingly common), I immediately think "stirrer, troll, etc.. It is a good combat indicator (I'm not aiming this at you - it is a general observation).

Probably right. Old habits die hard.

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There's one somewhere with a very annoying bat also.

 

Why move the bug to the bottom of the post?  I took lost time off my ignore list only to see the bug is not gone, just moved, so back it goes.

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22 minutes ago, TeaBag said:

There's one somewhere with a very annoying bat also.

 

Why move the bug to the bottom of the post?  I took lost time off my ignore list only to see the bug is not gone, just moved, so back it goes.


I don't see the bug at all anymore, but I have signatures turned off so possibly it's there.

Back to the topic at hand, we're keeping our reservation on our January 2022 South American cruise.  My thought is that within probably the first year, it will be business as usual without any major changes.  I'm sure Sycamore did its due diligence and knows why people sail with Azamara, and wants to keep the customer base.  We'll think positively, at least until we hear differently from passengers onboard once cruising is able to resume.

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8 minutes ago, hiccups said:


I don't see the bug at all anymore, but I have signatures turned off so possibly it's there.

Back to the topic at hand, we're keeping our reservation on our January 2022 South American cruise.  My thought is that within probably the first year, it will be business as usual without any major changes.  I'm sure Sycamore did its due diligence and knows why people sail with Azamara, and wants to keep the customer base.  We'll think positively, at least until we hear differently from passengers onboard once cruising is able to resume.

Thank you for the explanation.  I like how CC has shortened quoted posts with the expand option, so I probably left the signatures on after looking up someone's sailing history.

Yes, we are keeping our reservation as well as it is an itinerary that is becoming nearly impossible to find (Petra and Suez canal)  Since this is our first AZ sailing, we will have nothing to compare it to, so we will not know what has been added or taken away.

I keep myself upbeat these COVID days by thinking about sailing on the back of that lovely little ship.

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