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Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date


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1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

What you are suggesting here is we, as a population on this great earth, will NEVER be able to ditch the masks and must always social distance. NOT going to happen.

Not what I’m saying at all. I did not suggest anything and what you’re saying (not the “Not going to happen” part) is the exact opposite of what I would like to happen. Obviously we’re peons and don’t make the rules, but I don’t look down on others either.  On the plus side, my posts count went up, though it might be higher if some posts didn’t get deleted. I wish it was this easy to earn Crown and Anchor points. 

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On 1/28/2021 at 6:33 PM, PCHENG said:

Just my two cents, but I think the cruise line should mandate that all adults both passenger and crew get vaccinated.  Anyone eligible for a vaccine should get it as it provides the highest degree of protection.

 

As for children which has no approved vaccine yet or people who for one reason or another can't take the vaccine (such as people with severe allergies), get proof of negative Covid test within 72 hours of cruise like they do for international flights, maybe even conduct a second rapid test when checking in at port.

 

Do that, and you can safely assume that almost everyone on board are either protected or virus free.  It is obviously not a 100 percent fail safe guarantee, but as close as it gets.  Couple with lots of infrared temperature sensors, mandatory mask wearing when outside your room and social distancing, and hopefully we can have a relatively safe cruise.  There may still be sporadic instances of Covid on board but the important thing is to avoid a super-spreader Covid outbreak.

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

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2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

However, both vaccines are 100% guaranteed not to put anyone in the hospital if they do contract Covid. That is pretty good odds to me.

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

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3 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

Both of your statements are filled with inaccuracies. 
 

There are no vaccines that prevent 100% of illnesses that they are designed for. 
 

Having everyone on a ship vaccinated would guarantee a “super spreader” event would.not occur.  The viral load in a vaccinated Covid positive individual would be statistically insignificant to the immune system of a

covid negative vaccinated individual. THIS is the very definition of herd immunity.

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2 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

Actually the data submitted thus far supports the claim of no hospitalizations. 

In all the vaccine cohorts submitted to FDA; the vaccine group had zero hospitalizations

for Covid, the placebo groups all did have hospitalizations. 

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1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Actually the data submitted thus far supports the claim of no hospitalizations. 

In all the vaccine cohorts submitted to FDA; the vaccine group had zero hospitalizations

for Covid, the placebo groups all did have hospitalizations. 

It just worries me right now because "the science" changes every day.  The data changes every day.   It is sad because right now, I am being told by doctor NOT to get the vaccine- to stay as far at the back of the line as possible.  So if I am not permitted to get the vaccine, I will probably never be permitted to travel anywhere again. If I can't get on a cruise ship without it, can't go to a theme park without it, can't fly without it, can't go to restaurants or hotels or public places without it- I guess I am homebound for life now.  I never thought my life would be over at 50.    No wonder the suicide rate in the US is skyrocketing. 

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6 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

It just worries me right now because "the science" changes every day.  The data changes every day.   It is sad because right now, I am being told by doctor NOT to get the vaccine- to stay as far at the back of the line as possible.  So if I am not permitted to get the vaccine, I will probably never be permitted to travel anywhere again. If I can't get on a cruise ship without it, can't go to a theme park without it, can't fly without it, can't go to restaurants or hotels or public places without it- I guess I am homebound for life now.  I never thought my life would be over at 50.    No wonder the suicide rate in the US is skyrocketing. 

I wouldn’t say the science changes every day, data sets do grow, but the message has been fairly consistent. 
 

I would never contradict your physician, I have no idea of what aspect of your health has caused him to give this advise. 
 

Without significant co morbidities, at your age you aren’t eligible for the vaccine yet anyway, so you have e time to think about it. 
 

good luck

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30 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

It just worries me right now because "the science" changes every day.  The data changes every day.   It is sad because right now, I am being told by doctor NOT to get the vaccine- to stay as far at the back of the line as possible.  So if I am not permitted to get the vaccine, I will probably never be permitted to travel anywhere again. If I can't get on a cruise ship without it, can't go to a theme park without it, can't fly without it, can't go to restaurants or hotels or public places without it- I guess I am homebound for life now.  I never thought my life would be over at 50.    No wonder the suicide rate in the US is skyrocketing. 

Maybe you need a new doctor.  My daughter and the other doctors at her hospital couldn't get their vaccinations fast enough.  The vaccine might not be 100% effective but thus far it's proven safe to take with few  side effects.  So what do you have to lose?

Edited by Baron Barracuda
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51 minutes ago, easyqueasy said:

Not what I’m saying at all. I did not suggest anything and what you’re saying (not the “Not going to happen” part) is the exact opposite of what I would like to happen. Obviously we’re peons and don’t make the rules, but I don’t look down on others either.  On the plus side, my posts count went up, though it might be higher if some posts didn’t get deleted. I wish it was this easy to earn Crown and Anchor points. 

I apologize for misunderstanding your post.

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1 hour ago, legaljen1969 said:

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

I'm not sure that will be the case. The mRNA vaccines neutralize the virus which eliminates or greatly reduces the virus' ability to replicate. I would bet money that there would not remotely be a "super spreader event" if all passengers and crew were vaccinated.  The proper waiting period after the second dose must be completed before boarding the ship.

 

Even the new variants are neutralized by the Moderna vaccine......

 

Moderna vaccine retains neutralizing activity against variants

Edited by coffeebean
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16 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Maybe you need a new doctor.  My daughter and the other doctors at her hospital couldn't get their vaccinations fast enough.  The vaccine might not be 100% effective but thus far it's proven safe to take with few  side effects.  So what do you have to lose?


I was wondering the same thing.  That is unless legaljen1969 has other health issues, to which we are not aware of, regarding possible reactions to a vaccines.

 

If my doctor was saying hold off, for no obvious reasons, I would be making that decision that works for me and not the DR. 

Edited by A&L_Ont
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1 hour ago, legaljen1969 said:

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

Moderna's efficacy is 94.1% of not contracting Covid and 100% efficacy against severe infection. With no severe infection, chances are really good that a person would not need hospitalization from Covid infection.

 

Moderna Vaccine Efficacy Rates

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1 hour ago, legaljen1969 said:

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

What do you think the efficacy rating is for? The Moderna vaccine efficacy is 94.1%. That means there is a 94.1% of the time, Covid will not be contracted by an individual. The Pfizer vaccine has a 95% efficacy so, 95% of the time, Covid will not be contracted by an individual. I would say that is a hell of a lot better than "NO protection".

Edited by coffeebean
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14 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

If my doctor was saying hold off, for no obvious reasons, I would be making that decision that works for me and not the DR. 

Wouldn't the better plan of attack be, I don't know... maybe asking the doctor?  I'm guessing there's some reason the doctor advised not to get the shot.  Once you know that, THEN decide if it's worthy of changing doctors. 

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1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

The Pfizer vaccine has a 95% efficacy so, 95% of the time, Covid will not be contracted by an individual. I would say that is a hell of a lot better than "NO protection".


If that rate was 50% to 60% people would have been ecstatic when it was first announced. 
 

The one shot J&J rate at 66% seems low right now but it’s one shot, stores easily and is still better than 50%. I’d take that today if I could.  Obviously I’d prefer the higher rate, but I’m not going to turn it down when it comes time for my jab. 

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10 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Wouldn't the better plan of attack be, I don't know... maybe asking the doctor?  I'm guessing there's some reason the doctor advised not to get the shot.  Once you know that, THEN decide if it's worthy of changing doctors. 


I would listen and then make my decision based upon the discussion.

Edited by A&L_Ont
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1 minute ago, A&L_Ont said:


Go back and reread my post. I addressed that for legaljan1969 as well as me. 

All you said is if the "doctor is holding off for no obvious reasons".  What may be obvious to the doctor isn't obvious to the patient.  

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Just now, S.A.M.J.R. said:

All you said is if the "doctor is holding off for no obvious reasons".  What may be obvious to the doctor isn't obvious to the patient.  


I edited my post. See above. 

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1 hour ago, legaljen1969 said:

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

What, exactly, is it that you are going to sue the doctor for that provided the vaccine to you, or to some other patient? What would your plan be for the doctor who advised you not to get the vaccine after you are discharged from the hospital after recovering, assuming you actually live to discharge, from a covid infection?

 

I just love these legal types who are so ready to sue even though it appears you know little yourself about the vaccines. You know even less what it is like in a Covid unit or you would most likely not be demanding 100% guarantees. The only way you get those types of guarentees is with hindsight... something that the legal profession thrives on in spades but not so much the medical profession.

 

Now, go sue the snot out of someone.

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15 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


If that rate was 50% to 60% people would have been ecstatic when it was first announced. 
 

The one shot J&J rate at 66% seems low right now but it’s one shot, stores easily and is still better than 50%. I’d take that today if I could.  Obviously I’d prefer the higher rate, but I’m not going to turn it down when it comes time for my jab. 

I haven’t dove into all the data that’s been released yet but the article I did read reported after the first month the only individuals who cause COVID where in the placebo group.  
 

It also reduced severe and hospitalizations in the group.  It works differently then the other two vaccines so until it’s allowed to be used and more data is available we’ll have to wait.  There is some evidence at least over time the J&J vaccine continues to improve immunity.  
 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90942

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Something I havent seen much discussion is the discovery during trials  that Covid does not like to attach to a person that have one of two hostile substances in their body, steroids and nicotine. My sister lives with my niece. She quit smoking 3 years ago but my niece did not quit. My sister got Covid but not my niece and they live together, so in this instance that theory seems to suggest there is something to it. Im not saying smokers and those on steroids never get Covid though. My guess is they wouldnt want to encourage people to start smoking again and all that entails. It would pass by that person and attach to someone with a more "friendly" environment. Who would have thought a drug for Malaria would help people with Covid. There are so many things we still do not know.

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22 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

What, exactly, is it that you are going to sue the doctor for that provided the vaccine to you, or to some other patient? What would your plan be for the doctor who advised you not to get the vaccine after you are discharged from the hospital after recovering, assuming you actually live to discharge, from a covid infection?


What I find interesting, how could one really even prove where they contracted Covid.  Let alone, figure out if they are actually suing the right person. 

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