Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date

[DCGuy64]

Just now, NikiPinkston said:

Extra points for using "sanguine" in a sentence. 😊 

Haha, thanks! 😆

[lizzius]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I'm not as sanguine as you appear to be. Last year, the talk seemed to be all about the importance of even finding a vaccine. Well, we now have Moderna, Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Johnson&Johnson, yet there's no indication that I can see showing that the cruise industry is anywhere close to restarting. As it stands, the CDC is firmly in control, and they aren't indicating any willingness to adjust the timeframe for allowing cruising to resume. My own, admittedly pessimistic view is that the CDC will continue to be ultra cautious (and that's kind of their job, to be fair), which means cruising will not come back for a very long time. The question is, will it be too late to avoid bankruptcies? I'm not hopeful.

The only thing I would offer is that there will be some animus to lift restrictions because plenty of office-holders will be ready to show a victory in about, oh, a hundred days. So long as we continue to get vaccines in arms and the hospitalization/fatality rates continue trending favorably that is. The "win" may not extend to the cruise lines, but one can hope.

[dani negreanu]

4 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Look at the data from Israel and UAE which have the highest vaccination rates. But, as has been mentioned, not sure you can tell the drop is all due to vaccinations. 

 

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Yes, I've posted twice in this thread I will be looking at Israel data. Same same. Seems everyone is just echoing what I said lol.

 

Israel first vaccinated the +60 population (beside medical teams/1st responders and teachers).

There is a significant drop of sickness and hospitalization in this age group (80% vaccinated already).

 

OTH, "due" to the British mutation and the newly sub-British mutation, there is a surge in the below 60 population --- therefore, we're still in deep trouble, despite the successful roll out of vaccines....

 

Starting tomorrow, all the +16 can be vaccinated in an effort to stop the spreading, since it turns out those British mutations are highly virulent and contagious.

 

 

[MommaBear55]

On 2/1/2021 at 8:47 AM, Blondiemomm said:

We were originally booked to sail in August with my 2 kids as well. I am not risking it. I rebooked without them. We have to travel to the port and I am not risking being stuck in Miami with a false positive for a child. 

And we were going to take our 6 year old granchild on an already rescheduled cruise, which we'll have to reschedule again because his parents don't want him traveling without the vaccine. I'm ready for this to all be settled

[1980dory]

20 hours ago, lizzius said:

The only thing I would offer is that there will be some animus to lift restrictions because plenty of office-holders will be ready to show a victory in about, oh, a hundred days. So long as we continue to get vaccines in arms and the hospitalization/fatality rates continue trending favorably that is. The "win" may not extend to the cruise lines, but one can hope.

Do you also get extra points for using 'animus'?  If we keep this up, we're going to start losing and confusing people.  K-I-S-S.

[firefly333]

UK to test mixing vaccines, i.e. one jab of moderna and one of pfe and if it's more or less effective.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

UK to test mixing vaccines, i.e. one jab of moderna and one of pfe and if it's more or less effective.

VERY slippery slope

[molly361]

At the rate the startup is going the kids vaccine will be out and available by the time the ships start sailing again

[molly361]

30 minutes ago, molly361 said:

At the rate the startup is going the kids vaccine will be out and available by the time the ships start sailing again

Heck maybe I'll even be vaccinated by then😇🍹

[sgmn]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

UK to test mixing vaccines, i.e. one jab of moderna and one of pfe and if it's more or less effective.

As you say it's just a trial, results won't be known until the Summer. 

 

BBC News - Covid trial in UK examines mixing different vaccines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55924433

Edited February 4, 2021 by sgmn

[Bobal]

41 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

VERY slippery slope

 

Why?

I heard a discussion on the BBC today regarding this. It isn't an uncommon practice to combine vaccines and, whilst I can't remember enough to quote here what was said, the science behind it was very interesting and potentially groundbreaking 

 

Oh, and the person they interviewed was a doctor with an expertise in immunology- not an CC armchair expert. And he has volunteered to take part in the trial

[Norwich Cruiser]

35 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

VERY slippery slope

Why is that?
 

It’s a UK trial that has been launched to see if giving people different COVID vaccines for their first and second doses works as well as the current approach of using the same type of vaccine twice.

 

Scientists say mixing jabs could possibly give better protection.

 

Previous experience suggests mixing vaccines could be a beneficial approach - some Ebola immunisation programmes involve mixing different jabs to improve protection, for example.

 

It has also been done with other vaccines such as jabs for hepatitis polio measles mumps and rubella.

 

The study will involve more than 800 volunteers with folks aged 50 or older who have not yet received a COVID vaccine.

[not-enough-cruising]

10 minutes ago, Bobal said:

 

Why?

I heard a discussion on the BBC today regarding this. It isn't an uncommon practice to combine vaccines and, whilst I can't remember enough to quote here what was said, the science behind it was very interesting and potentially groundbreaking 

 

Oh, and the person they interviewed was a doctor with an expertise in immunology- not an CC armchair expert. And he has volunteered to take part in the trial

 

8 minutes ago, Norwich Cruiser said:

Why is that?
 

It’s a UK trial that has been launched to see if giving people different COVID vaccines for their first and second doses works as well as the current approach of using the same type of vaccine twice.

 

Scientists say mixing jabs could possibly give better protection.

 

Previous experience suggests mixing vaccines could be a beneficial approach - some Ebola immunisation programmes involve mixing different jabs to improve protection, for example.

 

It has also been done with other vaccines such as jabs for hepatitis polio measles mumps and rubella.

 

The study will involve more than 800 volunteers with folks aged 50 or older who have not yet received a COVID vaccine.

My apologies, I didn't glean from the original post that it was an investigative trial, I interpreted it as they were going to be making this standard practice.

 

American CDC has strictly forbidden the mixing of vaccines until a third party study has been done.

[not-enough-cruising]

13 minutes ago, Bobal said:

 

Why?

I heard a discussion on the BBC today regarding this. It isn't an uncommon practice to combine vaccines and, whilst I can't remember enough to quote here what was said, the science behind it was very interesting and potentially groundbreaking 

 

Oh, and the person they interviewed was a doctor with an expertise in immunology- not an CC armchair expert. And he has volunteered to take part in the trial

Although not uncommon to mix vaccines, we have never had mRna vaccines to know how this will work.  Recombinant adenovirus vaccines, we have mixed for years and are well aware how they react. 

 

Not that it matters, but I am a physician as well, not a CC armchair expert; you may wan't to tone down the rhetoric when you don't know your audience. 

[Bobal]

23 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Although not uncommon to mix vaccines, we have never had mRna vaccines to 

Not that it matters, but I am a physician as well, not a CC armchair expert; you may wan't to tone down the rhetoric when you don't know your audience. 

 

And perhaps you could have expanded earlier on your 'VERY slippery slope' theory, since you're such an expert 🙄

 

Nevertheless glad to see the UK taking the initiative, despite your misgivings 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Bobal

[Bobal]

Deleted

Edited February 4, 2021 by Bobal

[lizzius]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Although not uncommon to mix vaccines, we have never had mRna vaccines to know how this will work.  Recombinant adenovirus vaccines, we have mixed for years and are well aware how they react. 

 

Not that it matters, but I am a physician as well, not a CC armchair expert; you may wan't to tone down the rhetoric when you don't know your audience. 

A funny line to draw since adenovirus vectors are also relatively new, though they have found use in other therapies.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, lizzius said:

A funny line to draw since adenovirus vectors are also relatively new, though they have found use in other therapies.

At least 30-35 year old technology; but what matters in this context is that we know how the human body responds to exposure to multiple variants

[firefly333]

 

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

 

My apologies, I didn't glean from the original post that it was an investigative trial, I interpreted it as they were going to be making this standard practice.

 

American CDC has strictly forbidden the mixing of vaccines until a third party study has been done.

My post which you commented on said UK to test....

 

TEST was the word I quoted, as in they are running a trial to TEST it. It ran as just a quick news thing and didnt go into more detail other than it would be tested.

 

My assumption was a trial such as the other ones being run. How else would they test it other than a 3rd party trial. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by firefly333

[not-enough-cruising]

42 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

My post which you commented on said UK to test....

 

TEST was the word I quoted, as in they are running a trial to TEST it. It ran as just a quick news thing and didnt go into more detail other than it would be tested.

 

My assumption was a trial such as the other ones being run. How else would they test it other than a 3rd party trial. 

As I said in my previous post, I mis-interpreted your post. There was a story run recently that several countries were looking into mixing doses, and spacing out 1st and 2nd doses to vaccinate more people. 

I mistakenly lumped your story in with the other.

[legaljen1969]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:21 PM, Ocean Boy said:

I think you left out a very important word.... return to normal... sooner.

I would say they had it right.  There will always be another hurdle to returning to normal.  There is no sooner, only later.  Later and later and later.   We are never returning to "normal."  A "new normal" perhaps, but definitely a more restrictive and less humane one.  

[TheMastodon]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:32 PM, Bobal said:

 

Why?

I heard a discussion on the BBC today regarding this. It isn't an uncommon practice to combine vaccines and, whilst I can't remember enough to quote here what was said, the science behind it was very interesting and potentially groundbreaking 

 

Oh, and the person they interviewed was a doctor with an expertise in immunology- not an CC armchair expert. And he has volunteered to take part in the trial

 

You are in good hands with this CC armchair expert.

[legaljen1969]

On 1/30/2021 at 7:13 PM, Ocean Boy said:

What, exactly, is it that you are going to sue the doctor for that provided the vaccine to you, or to some other patient? What would your plan be for the doctor who advised you not to get the vaccine after you are discharged from the hospital after recovering, assuming you actually live to discharge, from a covid infection?

 

I just love these legal types who are so ready to sue even though it appears you know little yourself about the vaccines. You know even less what it is like in a Covid unit or you would most likely not be demanding 100% guarantees. The only way you get those types of guarentees is with hindsight... something that the legal profession thrives on in spades but not so much the medical profession.

 

Now, go sue the snot out of someone.

i wasn't demanding 100%. Someone said that there was data out there that said it was 100% you would not have to go to the hospital after a vaccine.   I just said that was awfully high "certainty" and that it was overly confident.  

Maybe you need to learn how to read. 

 

[legaljen1969]

On 1/30/2021 at 6:34 PM, A&L_Ont said:

I was wondering the same thing.  That is unless legaljen1969 has other health issues, to which we are not aware of, regarding possible reactions to a vaccines.

 

If my doctor was saying hold off, for no obvious reasons, I would be making that decision that works for me and not the DR. 

Not that it is anyone's business whether I have other underlying health issues, but I do.   My PCM is just cautious and wants to see a little more of the long view of what is going to happen. 

As recently as the past couple of weeks, news has come out about the vaccines causing swollen lymph nodes and advising women not to have their mammograms any sooner than 6 weeks after a vaccine because the lymph node swelling is likely to cause doctors to encourage moving forward with a biopsy. Not that it is bad to encourage a woman to have a biopsy, but having already been down that road with the scare of breast cancer- I can only imagine how frightening that could be for women who might have to go through that stress unneccesarily.   

They have not said I cannot get the vaccine or should not get the vaccine- just that they would prefer I definitely wait my turn and not be in a hurry to get the first available appointment.  I have a close friend who also had breast cancer and has never had any problems with lymphedema in the year since her surgery.  She got the shot (in the opposite side arm because, obviously, you don't do shots or blood draws or blood pressures in the surgical arm) and she ended up having serious lymphedema.  

I just want to have a longer view of the possible effects.   I guess people are comfortable getting the vaccine- and if it makes them feel safer that is fine.  However, right now knowing it could make me sicker I am willing to wait. 

[OceanCruise]

The vaccine is not FDA approved (only has emergency use authorization) and, as such, is considered an experimental treatment. Experimental treatments require consent of the individual and cannot be mandated or coerced according to Federal law and the Nuremberg Code. 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/?utm_content=buffer5911c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_o