Government of Canada announces one-year ban for pleasure craft and cruise vessels

[iceman93]

Agreed on the rancor; Cruise Critic used to be a much friendlier place where people discussed their shared love of cruising, offered helpful advice to our fellow cruisers, and kept in touch regarding new developments.

 

Along those lines, I don't get the posts along the lines of "we're in a global pandemic--I can't believe we're discussing restrictions on cruising!"  This is a forum for people who like/love cruising.  Yes, we all understand there's a pandemic.  I get why people would want to discuss strategy X or plan Y for getting back on board, even if those approaches seem optimistic given what's going on.

 

But to drop in just to crap on everyone, lecture us, or incessantly bang on the "I'm not cruising anytime soon because I don't feel safe, so how dare you even consider a vacation" drum... I don't understand.  Wallow in self-pity, that's your right.  But why pooh-pooh on other people who might just have a different perspective on what's going on in the world, or who are trying to come to a place that is supposed to be where we CAN look forward with hope to moving on?

[bennybear]

4 hours ago, kangforpres said:

Enough with the Canada bashing! It's absurd an outrageous to compare Canada to China. I got an email from my TA who has been in the cruise travel business for decades she said, I asked her when to expect my Sept. Alaska Cruise to be "officially cancelled"

 

She said "Everything is up in the air, if the Jones act is temporary amended we will sail from Seattle instead of Vancouver, also Canada may change it's mind.

 

Infection rates continue to drop and vaccinations continue to increase, if looks look significantly better by say April, then yes Canada may change their minds. After all, the US is Canada's biggest trading partner and vice versa.

 

-Paul

 

 

Thank you!  

[david,Mississauga]

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This.

 

I can't honestly understand all the rancor expressed over the last 10 pages!

 

Indeed. A few years ago I came onto the HAL forum after booking our first HAL cruise in a long time. I was rather taken aback by the nastiness. Some of my innocent questions received a snarky response. The other forums I frequented – Cunard and P&O – were and are more civilised. So I wasn’t surprised to see this has continued. However, I am pleased there were also some very rational and pleasant postings from members on both sides of the border. I appreciate the information regarding “innocent passage” posted by YXU AC*SE and d9704011. It seems doubtful the Royal Canadian Navy will be blockading the inside passage.

 

I am not a disinterested person. I have had a Cunard voyage cancelled last year and there is a probable cancellation for October of this year. I also was thinking of a HAL cruise to Alaska this year but had not booked it.

 

One would think that the Canadian government order is the sole impediment to the return to normal cruising. There are other considerations.

 

Will the usual number of cruises be able to be based in Seattle this year? I have had a quick look at some U.S. sites and it is not clear to me. Maybe it is apparent to others. Some of my friends in the U.S. say the return to cruising is not certain. One couple have already had their summer cruise cancelled.  (It was not a HAL cruise nor one going to Canada.)

 

The “return to sailing” protocols may be difficult for some passengers. Another concern I have is the availability of travel insurance. It is impossible for Canadians to obtain medical and cancellation insurance for out-of-country travel. The two government advisories are in effect until further notice. One says: do not leave the country for non-essential travel and the second one says do not take a cruise outside Canada – full stop. Even those of us with unlimited annual packages have been told we are not covered if we take a cruise.

 

Even if people can enter Canada, there are restrictions in many provinces. British Columbia does not want visitors even from the rest of Canada, although they have not banned them. The provinces of New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island have banned visitors for non-essential reasons, i.e. tourists. Nova Scotia will allow visitors but they must quarantine for 14 days. No-one knows when these restrictions will be eased. Likewise, no-one knows what the pandemic will be like in a month let alone half a year from now. These new COVID variants are a real concern.

 

I think we have to take a deep breath, calm down and take it slowly – and while we do so, be nice.

[bennybear]

3 hours ago, david,Mississauga said:

 

Indeed. A few years ago I came onto the HAL forum after booking our first HAL cruise in a long time. I was rather taken aback by the nastiness. Some of my innocent questions received a snarky response. The other forums I frequented – Cunard and P&O – were and are more civilised. So I wasn’t surprised to see this has continued. However, I am pleased there were also some very rational and pleasant postings from members on both sides of the border. I appreciate the information regarding “innocent passage” posted by YXU AC*SE and d9704011. It seems doubtful the Royal Canadian Navy will be blockading the inside passage.

 

 

I am not a disinterested person. I have had a Cunard voyage cancelled last year and there is a probable cancellation for October of this year. I also was thinking of a HAL cruise to Alaska this year but had not booked it.

 

 

One would think that the Canadian government order is the sole impediment to the return to normal cruising. There are other considerations.

 

 

Will the usual number of cruises be able to be based in Seattle this year? I have had a quick look at some U.S. sites and it is not clear to me. Maybe it is apparent to others. Some of my friends in the U.S. say the return to cruising is not certain. One couple have already had their summer cruise cancelled.  (It was not a HAL cruise nor one going to Canada.)

 

 

The “return to sailing” protocols may be difficult for some passengers. Another concern I have is the availability of travel insurance. It is impossible for Canadians to obtain medical and cancellation insurance for out-of-country travel. The two government advisories are in effect until further notice. One says: do not leave the country for non-essential travel and the second one says do not take a cruise outside Canada – full stop. Even those of us with unlimited annual packages have been told we are not covered if we take a cruise.

 

 

Even if people can enter Canada, there are restrictions in many provinces. British Columbia does not want visitors even from the rest of Canada, although they have not banned them. The provinces of New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island have banned visitors for non-essential reasons, i.e. tourists. Nova Scotia will allow visitors but they must quarantine for 14 days. No-one knows when these restrictions will be eased. Likewise, no-one knows what the pandemic will be like in a month let alone half a year from now. These new COVID variants are a real concern.

 

 

I think we have to take a deep breath, calm down and take it slowly – and while we do so, be nice.

Well said!  Normally  I find the HAL forums quite pleasant.  But unfortunately,  stress brings out both the best of us and the worst of us.  Love your last line! 

[stobe1]

I am currently sitting at the famous Red Dog Saloon in Juneau for work and the bartender is telling me how much this town and other Alaskan towns depend on summer cruise dollars and how a 2nd year of no cruises is going to devastate them. They really do depend on cruise dollars here.

[kevingastreich]

34 minutes ago, stobe1 said:

I am currently sitting at the famous Red Dog Saloon in Juneau for work and the bartender is telling me how much this town and other Alaskan towns depend on summer cruise dollars and how a 2nd year of no cruises is going to devastate them. They really do depend on cruise dollars here.

I love the Red Dog!

[stobe1]

29 minutes ago, kevingastreich said:

I love the Red Dog!

Yeah I love it here. I always come here when I am in town!

[stobe1]

Now at the Hangar Bar. Right in front of where cruise ships dock in Juneau during the Alaska season. Same story from a different bartender about how they depend  on summer cruise dollars.

Edited February 10, 2021 by stobe1

[JimC]

Has HAL officially canceled their 2021 Fall Canada/New England cruises?? We are booked on one which I assume is canceled after the order by Canada but I've received no notification and our reservation on the HAL website shows everything is OK. I do notice that if searching for the same cruise on the HAL web site it is showing no Canada/New England cruises for 2021.  

Edited February 10, 2021 by JimC

[daisy-mae]

It sounds like HAL was caught off guard by the announcement. I just received a glossy, multi-page booklet from them showcasing their 2021 Alaska cruises. A most unfortunate waste of the cruise industry's limited funds...

[kazu]

55 minutes ago, JimC said:

Has HAL officially canceled their 2021 Fall Canada/New England cruises?? We are booked on one which I assume is canceled after the order by Canada but I've received no notification and our reservation on the HAL website shows everything is OK. I do notice that if searching for the same cruise on the HAL web site it is showing no Canada/New England cruises for 2021.  

 

I do not believe they have cancelled them at this stage.  They have suspended sales of cruises impacted by the Canadian government declaration as they explore options.  

[iancal]

I would be extremely surprised if HAL or any other major player was caught off guard by this announcement.  I would expect that they have known for several weeks that this was a high probability.  Same with the political leaders.

 

Glossy, multipage booklets are composed months in advance.  And printed far in advance.  And yes, they are expensive compose, print, and mail.  Typically even the mailing out is handled by the same third party marketing contractor.  

 

Which is why many smart marketers have switched their focus to on line targeted delivery and have spent the time and resources to  develop effective, customer friendly web sites with very high uptime.

Edited February 10, 2021 by iancal

[sfaaa]

Alaska was certainly caught off guard. 

[iancal]

Alaska may have been but my guess is that their senior politicians were well aware of this possibility.  

 

This should have been no surprise to anyone who was following the covid issue in North America or even following the CDC comments.   Covid infections, percentage of positives, vaccine roll outs, new strains etc. etc.    I doubt very much if any cruise line senior management team was surprised.  The numbers foretold this.   I mean really, what is the CDC saying about cruising prior to November?

 

No crystal ball was required.  Just a review of the stats, what scientists and health professionals were saying, and perhaps reading cogent print articles by subject matter experts  instead of listening to or watching 30 minute blurbs on the TV. 

 

Or believing the words of some know nothing politicians who place their popularity above the health and safety of their voters.

Edited February 10, 2021 by iancal

[HappyInVan]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:22 PM, iceman93 said:

But to drop in just to crap on everyone, lecture us, or incessantly bang on the "I'm not cruising anytime soon because I don't feel safe, so how dare you even consider a vacation" drum... I don't understand.  Wallow in self-pity, that's your right.  But why pooh-pooh on other people who might just have a different perspective on what's going on in the world, or who are trying to come to a place that is supposed to be where we CAN look forward with hope to moving on?

 

I've looked through this thread. IMO, your assessment is inaccurate.

 

There seems to be some nasty reactions to the decision by Government of Canada to ban cruise ships for a year. Curious minds should ask, “Why is the Canadian government taking this drastic step?”

 

Fact is that our politicians have been reluctance to squeeze the 10% that don't act like adults. As a result, most of Canada have been forced to lockdown etc. In view of the threat of the covid variants, the only way to regain control is to seal our borders.

 

For example, returnees by air have to test/quarantine on arrival. In fact, returning residents by land will now also have to test/quarantine.

 

Our airlines are now shutting down service to USA and the rest of the world. Just as they have already closed service to Mexico and the Caribbean.

 

So, the cruise ban is just part of the package. This is what the majority of Canadians want.

 

BTW, how would Canadians react if it was the Americans/Europeans shutting their cruise industry?

 

IMHO, we would be disappointed but accept it as an act of god. Like a winter storm. We would just get on with our lives.

 

My best advise to our American friends is to think hard about solutions. Which strategy would work best if you can't get enough people vaccinated to achieve herd immunity?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by HappyInVan

[iancal]

These are not particularly encouraging stats for the average HAL cruiser....given their age and the average age of their fellow cruisers.

 

Clearly, HAL cruisers (especially those with pre conditions)should be very concerned with getting on a cruise before covid is resolved to the extent that it can be.

Edited February 11, 2021 by iancal

[kevingastreich]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:23 PM, stobe1 said:

Now at the Hangar Bar. Right in front of where cruise ships dock in Juneau during the Alaska season. Same story from a different bartender about how they depend  on summer cruise dollars.

Nice view!

[RGEDad]

23 hours ago, daisy-mae said:

It sounds like HAL was caught off guard by the announcement. 

I was chatting with my Vacations to Go (VTG) cruise agent the other day while closing a new reservation. He stated that the cruise lines (and VTG)  heard about the closure the same time we normal folks did - in the news. 

[HappyInVan]

Well, slivers of facts can be mis-used by the morally ambiguous.

 

We should stay focused on the subject of cruising. IMHO, it is difficult to resume international cruising if there are wide disparities in infection rates. Check out your home jurisdiction in the graph below.

 

In terms of total deaths per capita, British Columbia is at the bottom of the charts. The cruise terminal is located in the City of Vancouver (pop 900k). Current cases @70/day. So, cruises can safely embark/disembark from Vancouver.

 

We're ready to do business. You're welcome in BC once you get your infection rates under control. Till then...

[iancal]

This chart and others like it is exactly the reason why I doubt very much whether cruise line execs or Alaska state politicians were caught off guard.  I have no doubt that they see charts like this on a daily or weekly basis depending on their position and area of responsibility.  They are not top secret, anyone with access to a computer can easily access them.

 

If they were caught off guard....then they were not doing their respective jobs.   And keep in mind there is a great deal of concern about a third wave coming as a result of the spread of new variants.

 

These numbers speak for themselves and explain exactly why the Canadian ban was imposed.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by iancal

[cruisemom42]

On 2/10/2021 at 1:46 PM, iancal said:

I would be extremely surprised if HAL or any other major player was caught off guard by this announcement.  I would expect that they have known for several weeks that this was a high probability. 

 

If they were, perhaps they should pay more attention to Cruise Critic news articles.

 

Already on January 7, CC posted an article titled:  "Is the 2021 Alaska Cruise Season Already in Jeopardy?"

 

Contains such intel as:  

 

Transport Canada has banned all cruise operations within Canadian waters through February 28, 2021. The order, which was initially put in place last spring at the start of the coronavirus outbreak in North America, has been extended several times since then, and could be extended again.

 

British Columbia, home to the popular homeport of Vancouver and port of call (and capital city) of Victoria, has recommended against even domestic travel within the province and interprovincial, domestic travel, in addition to recommending residents refrain from nonessential travel. Leaders have also indicated their preference to not allow meaningful travel until vaccines are widely available.

[iancal]

I believe that for many cruise lovers it is a case of wishful thinking overtaking realism.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by iancal

[nocl]

Since there are plenty of flights going to/from Alaska they do have an opportunity to get organized and starting marketing land tours including organized day tours.  One could easily do hub and spoke tours from the mainland, Juneau and Ketchikan.   If they were to get organized they could provide a quality travel experience and get a substantial percentage of business into southeast Alaska. It would provide a lot of business for many of the tour companies (boat and flight seeing) and even business for many businesses (museums and other items of interest).  Not so much for those such as diamonds international or the totally cruise ship focused businesses that deliver a so so dining product, while charging high prices because they know they can keep full with the thousands of cruise ships passengers dropped off in mass near their door.  I would expect that Alaska Air lines and several of the smaller carriers would be pretty eager to participate and give tour companies very good pricing.

 

Want to do Glacier bay have the tour route through Gustavus and spend two nights at Glacier Bay lodge.  Want to see Skagway a day tour out of Juneau if something cannot be worked out for over night accommodations (Its 86 miles, not too long for high speed tour boats).

 

Especially with vaccinations flowing.  By the middle of summer should be a lot of people vaccinated and looking to go on vacation.

 

It would be fewer people, but a lot more money per person staying in those towns.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by nocl

[john2003]

NOCL this is all very true but irrelevant if the virus spread cannot be contained. There is a very long way to go on that. Remember the evidence is still uncertain that the vax stops the shed.

[nocl]

22 minutes ago, john2003 said:

NOCL this is all very true but irrelevant if the virus spread cannot be contained. There is a very long way to go on that. Remember the evidence is still uncertain that the vax stops the shed.

That is correct, but for those that are vaccinated the risk goes down considerably.  Once the states determined that those that want to get vaccinated have been they will have reached the point of doing pretty much everything that they can.  At that stage many people will be traveling, and while you might see tests still being required you will see far less quarantine requirements and far less other restrictions.

 

One of the major drivers of the restrictions was to slow the spread until vaccines could be developed and deployed.  Once that happens then things will open back up and the remaining threat of the virus will be what it is. For at that point there will not be any expectation of anything else being delivered.

Some people may not travel even after being vaccinated, but a lot will.

 

The only exception to that will be if you see an new strain that is not contained by vaccines and boosters designed to handle strains.