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Covid protocols announced for CCL - count on the same for HAL?


KirkNC
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2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Not to mention that a five day old test is pretty useless.

MY opinion is that any pre-test is pretty useless for travel purposes. All the test tells you is whether you have Covid at that point in time. You could be infected 5 minutes after they take the swab, you could already be infected, but just not at the stage that the test can detect. 

 

Proof of vaccination should be required to cruise. I hear rumbles over in the airline forums that it may soon be required to travel on an airplane. 

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1 minute ago, drowelf said:

MY opinion is that any pre-test is pretty useless for travel purposes. All the test tells you is whether you have Covid at that point in time. You could be infected 5 minutes after they take the swab, you could already be infected, but just not at the stage that the test can detect. 

 

Proof of vaccination should be required to cruise. I hear rumbles over in the airline forums that it may soon be required to travel on an airplane. 

Hear, hear!!

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8 minutes ago, drowelf said:

MY opinion is that any pre-test is pretty useless for travel purposes. All the test tells you is whether you have Covid at that point in time. You could be infected 5 minutes after they take the swab, you could already be infected, but just not at the stage that the test can detect. 

 

Proof of vaccination should be required to cruise. I hear rumbles over in the airline forums that it may soon be required to travel on an airplane. 

One potential problem is if sizable segments of the population choose not to get the Covid-19 vaccine, says John R. Mascola, director of the federal National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases’ Vaccine Research Center. 

“Until we have broad-based vaccination and herd immunity, we should appreciate that it’s possible to still get exposed to the virus really from anybody whether they’re vaccinated or not,” he says. But if the vast majority of people get the vaccine, “some asymptomatic transmission is not going to have much of a public health implication,” he says.

That is exactly what a ship is where everyone is fully vaccinated.  I do not think that we then need to worry about asymptomatic transmission since immunity has been 95% established.

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Do you think the variants will come into play, i.e. will boosters be required, or maybe only those with certain vaccines be allowed to sail, etc.?

 

"Until recently, the evidence that vaccines were less potent against some of the variants was mostly lab-based. Tests showed vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna produced much lower levels of so-called neutralizing antibodies against the South African strain. In one study, scientists from the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center found that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were 6.5 to 8.6 times less potent against the mutation. Still, the companies have said that even these reduced antibody levels should be high enough to hold the strain at bay.

 

Then late-stage trials of vaccines developed by Johnson & Johnson and Novavax Inc. came out. They showed their shots to be highly potent against the original forms of the virus. But results from studies done in South Africa told a less impressive tale. The J&J shot was found to be 72% effective in the U.S., but that fell to 57% in South Africa. Novavax’s shot, 89% effective in the U.K., was only 49% effective in South Africa. Those results are “sobering,” says Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in San Diego. “We see an unequivocal drop-off in efficacy.”

 

That means vaccine makers are now diverting attention to work on either booster shots or a new, adjusted vaccine that can work better against the South African mutation, known scientifically as B.1.351. “We are having enough of a struggle getting the first round of vaccines in,” Topol says.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/pfizer-pfe-moderna-mrna-race-to-make-vaccines-for-covid-variants

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One also needs to remember how long it will take for everyone who wants a vaccine to get one. Here in Washington it is those over 75, essential workers or those over 50 in multigenerational families. Plus they are running out of doses even for scheduled appointments. If this continues it will be quite awhile before cruise lines would be able to require vaccinations IMO

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1 minute ago, cruisin'teach said:

One also needs to remember how long it will take for everyone who wants a vaccine to get one. Here in Washington it is those over 75, essential workers or those over 50 in multigenerational families. Plus they are running out of doses even for scheduled appointments. If this continues it will be quite awhile before cruise lines would be able to require vaccinations IMO

 

Our Prime Minister has stated that everyone who wants a vaccine will have it by September.  I hope it’s true.  I’ll believe it when I see it, though 😉 

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12 minutes ago, cruisin'teach said:

One also needs to remember how long it will take for everyone who wants a vaccine to get one. Here in Washington it is those over 75, essential workers or those over 50 in multigenerational families. Plus they are running out of doses even for scheduled appointments. If this continues it will be quite awhile before cruise lines would be able to require vaccinations IMO

Over 65, not 75 thank goodness.  🙂  

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1 hour ago, drowelf said:

MY opinion is that any pre-test is pretty useless for travel purposes. All the test tells you is whether you have Covid at that point in time. You could be infected 5 minutes after they take the swab, you could already be infected, but just not at the stage that the test can detect. 

 

Proof of vaccination should be required to cruise. I hear rumbles over in the airline forums that it may soon be required to travel on an airplane. 

Bingo!! We know this first hand. I was tested positive on a Wednesday. Dh and ds went on the following Saturday to be tested. Dh positive, ds negative. Ds however started showing mild symptoms the next Tuesday and indeed had developed Covid since this test. Had he taken that negative test and just gone back into work, who knows how many people he could have infected. Thankfully he stayed home and called in sick. Think if he had gotten on a plane or a cruise ship. Useless yes, and maybe even dangerous tbh. 

 

Problem with requiring vaccination is that it is just going to be so long before everyone even has the ability to be vaccinated. Preschoolers may not be vaccinated until next year. Pregnant women will also take longer. Vaccine studies on the under 16 population and pregnant women take much longer, and that is a good thing but it does put many folks in a bad spot. I know we won't be back on a cruise ship until vaccination is the requirement and all these other things like ship only excursions are gone. I just hope the cruise industry can make it until then. 

 

Edited by fatcat04
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1 hour ago, fatcat04 said:

I was tested positive on a Wednesday. Dh and ds went on the following Saturday to be tested. Dh positive, ds negative. Ds however started showing mild symptoms the next Tuesday and indeed had developed Covid since this test. Had he taken that negative test and just gone back into work, who knows how many people he could have infected. Thankfully he stayed home and called in sick.

 

Don't the guidelines call for anyone exposed to someone with COVID to quarantine for 14 days following exposure?  Or even if following the less strict guidelines, to quarantine for 7 days following a negative test. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html#:~:text=Watch for symptoms until 14,the spread of COVID-19.

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I still think by early summer pretty much everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be able to get a jab at least in the US.    Children and pregnant women maybe a little slower as they are still studying those groups and the safety of the vaccine. I do seem to recall a doctor being interviewed stating that it was safe for pregnant women but I may be wrong.

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For me and my family, we don't care about vaccinations, testing, temperature checks, etc.  If it makes other people feel good to have those restrictions in place, especially port cities becoming comfortable having cruise ships visit again, then I'm fine with them.

 

What we will not accept are restrictions on the enjoyable cruising experience.  We will not cruise as long as masks are required (at all), social distancing is enforced, buffets are closed, or entertainment is eliminated.  If requiring a vaccine is what it takes to get rid of those other changes, then that's fine because we all plan to get vaccinated as soon as we're eligible anyway.

 

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just sharing our view on things and what we will decide for our own travels.  If society decides on different rules for cruising, we'll just choose to do other things until (or if) they get back to what we find acceptable.  If everyone thinks masks are the "new normal" and they'll be required on board forever, then we just won't cruise anymore--c'est la vie!

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4 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

For me and my family, we don't care about vaccinations, testing, temperature checks, etc.  If it makes other people feel good to have those restrictions in place, especially port cities becoming comfortable having cruise ships visit again, then I'm fine with them.

 

What we will not accept are restrictions on the enjoyable cruising experience.  We will not cruise as long as masks are required (at all), social distancing is enforced, buffets are closed, or entertainment is eliminated.  If requiring a vaccine is what it takes to get rid of those other changes, then that's fine because we all plan to get vaccinated as soon as we're eligible anyway.

 

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just sharing our view on things and what we will decide for our own travels.  If society decides on different rules for cruising, we'll just choose to do other things until (or if) they get back to what we find acceptable.  If everyone thinks masks are the "new normal" and they'll be required on board forever, then we just won't cruise anymore--c'est la vie!

Keep in mind that vaccines are not a silver bullet that solves the entire epidemic.  They are a tool, just as tests, masks, social distancing, quarantines, etc are all tools.  I expect all of them to be required until the incidence rate of COVID is low enough for the epidemic emergency to be considered to be over.  So I do not expect vaccination by itself to be enough for the other items to be eliminated on board ship until the infection rates drop significantly.

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2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Don't the guidelines call for anyone exposed to someone with COVID to quarantine for 14 days following exposure?  Or even if following the less strict guidelines, to quarantine for 7 days following a negative test. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html#:~:text=Watch for symptoms until 14,the spread of COVID-19.

Yes in a perfect utopia but not every employer is as understanding nor really gives a rip about what the CDC says, especially some of those businesses who are deemed essential. He was told that if he had a negative test and no symptoms he was to report to work, period. He did develop symptoms and was thus out the required time after that. 

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2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

I still think by early summer pretty much everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be able to get a jab at least in the US.    Children and pregnant women maybe a little slower as they are still studying those groups and the safety of the vaccine. I do seem to recall a doctor being interviewed stating that it was safe for pregnant women but I may be wrong.

I have also read this. It seems to be the Pfizer vaccine only and that pregnant women at risk, like heathcare/frontline workers, have been encouraged to seriously consider getting the vaccine. 

 

Pfizer has this to say We will evaluate the vaccine in pregnant women in a study starting in Q1 2021, once developmental and reproductive toxicity studies are complete. People who are pregnant or breastfeeding should discuss their vaccination options with their individual health care provider.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/the_facts_about_pfizer_and_biontech_s_covid_19_vaccine

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HAL has already done so.  From the HAL website:

 

GUEST EXPERIENCE

  • Responsible physical distancing in terminals, on board ships, on private island and during shore excursions. This will be managed through reduced occupancy, staggered activity times, and closely managed group sizes.
  • Redesigned common areas, entertainment programs and restaurants, including buffet-style dining converted to service restaurants.
  • Mandatory wearing of masks by all guests and crew on board and during excursions whenever physical distancing cannot be maintained between non-family guests. 
  • Additional handwashing facilities and hand-sanitizing stations positioned in high-traffic areas throughout the ship.
  • Provide regular health information about the ways to stay healthy on board and when ashore through daily programming, entertainment systems, announcements, in-stateroom literature and our Navigator app.
  • Only shore excursions that comply with Holland America Line prescribed protocols will be permitted, with strict adherence required of all guests and denial of re-boarding for any guests who do not comply

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/coronavirus-travel-advisory/traveling-and-staying-healthy.html

 

 

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9 hours ago, mamaofami said:

How will it be possible to be socially distant in an elevator or at a table in the dining room or in the theater?

The elevators will be a problem. The tables will have to be further apart which I guess leads to more seatings or rushing people through meals. Seats will be blocked off in the theater, and I guess there will have to be more shows.

 

Now disembarkation, that I see as a problem. They have to get passengers quickly off the ship so the cabins can be prepared for the next set of passengers. And I assume there would have to be more thorough disenfecting, so even more time will be needed for that preparation.

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For dining I see a reservation only system even for Lido.  It will be mandated by the ship.  I envision something like: 

Days 1&4 - eat in cabin via room service 

Day 2-5 - eat in MDR @ X time

Day 3 - eat in specialty restaurant @ X time 

Day 6 & 7 - eat in Lido @ X time.

 

For entertainment I think you will be assigned a couple of days per week with a specific time to go to shows.  Same with speakers assuming they even have them.  
 

I assume the casino will be closed and there will be no social activities like bridge or trivia.  
 

Embarkation will be assigned time as will disembarkation (stay in your cabin until your time).

 

Elevators will be off limits except for those with mobility issues.  In their case only people from your cabin will be allowed in with you.
 

Obviously these will easy over time, how much time we don’t know.

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12 hours ago, mamaofami said:

How will it be possible to be socially distant in an elevator or at a table in the dining room or in the theater?

Capacity controls, just like on land. Limited numbers of people in elevators, spacing tables. With limited capacities on ships, seating in the main theatre will be spread out.

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9 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

Yes in a perfect utopia but not every employer is as understanding nor really gives a rip about what the CDC says, especially some of those businesses who are deemed essential. He was told that if he had a negative test and no symptoms he was to report to work, period. He did develop symptoms and was thus out the required time after that. 

 

Wow, that is terrible. 

 

I would have thought that even (or maybe especially) in businesses that are essential, anyone with exposure to COVID would be advised to self-quarantine. That's the case with our essential workers in my industry (e.g., production line workers for a medical/pharma company).

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15 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Wow, that is terrible. 

 

I would have thought that even (or maybe especially) in businesses that are essential, anyone with exposure to COVID would be advised to self-quarantine. That's the case with our essential workers in my industry (e.g., production line workers for a medical/pharma company).

 

In some cases it comes down to availability of sick leave benefits. Without it, a minimum or low wage employee with no (or limited) sick leave pay may find it more difficult to be convinced to  be out  for self quarantine when test if negative or they are asymptomatic. 

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We can deal with all the restrictions except having to participate in cruise-sponsored excursions.  The prices are way too high for many of them for starters.  If it's a port we've been to before, we like to just get off the ship and do our own thing.  We get our 2nd shot on Monday so that isn't an issue, and although we are used to wearing masks we don't find it enjoyable. 

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