Grandfather sentenced for death of granddaughter

[delmom18]

Not quite sure why anyone would plead guilty to something they say they didn't do and still try to sue the company.  And then admit they are pleading guilty so they can focus on a lawsuit against the company.  

[njkruzer]

Just now, delmom18 said:

Not quite sure why anyone would plead guilty to something they say they didn't do and still try to sue the company.  And then admit they are pleading guilty so they can focus on a lawsuit against the company.  

I can't explain why people do some of the things they do.

[florida eagle]

1 hour ago, cruzysuzy said:

Doesn't anyone remember the ship security camera's film in which he sticks his head out the window first and then grabs and dangles his step granddaughter out the window?  This civil lawsuit is sheer extortion.  His lies are to appease the family, giving them a windfall in return for his actions.

 

RCI had better not back down on this one or it will never end.  I'm sure the parents saw the film, too, and they deserve nothing but scorn for blaming it on the cruise line.

Another issue is if Royal will make changes to the windows and not for the better. Open windows can add ventilation and make it more comfortable on the Lido deck. What possessed him to hang his granddaughter out the window in the first place is mind boggling. 11 stories up! There are people in buildings on land that get lambasted when caught doing that.

[SeaHunt]

1 hour ago, delmom18 said:

Not quite sure why anyone would plead guilty to something they say they didn't do and still try to sue the company.  And then admit they are pleading guilty so they can focus on a lawsuit against the company.  

 

Don't forget the mom is an attorney (a "South Bend-based Federal Prosecutor"). 😉

 

South Bend family's suit against Royal Caribbean over toddler's death can continue, judge says | Local | southbendtribune.com

[SeaHunt]

I tried to edit my post above to add this info:

 

"Chloe died in July after she fell from a window on the 11th floor of the ship Freedom of the Seas, which was docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico. She was the daughter of Alan Wiegand, a South Bend police officer, and Kimberly Schultz-Wiegand, a South Bend-based federal prosecutor".

[dahirsh]

3 hours ago, njkruzer said:

Lawyers wrote it.

 

I can't imagine a lawyer who is either bringing the civil suit forward or is at least aware of it would author or approve the didn't have to admit to the facts line

 

[GUT2407]

I am stunned that in America you can plead guilty without admitting to the facts needed to constitute the crime. Sometimes it can take longer to come to a statement of agreed facts than run a hearing, but if the accused doesn’t agree to facts that constitute the elements of a crime, a hearing it is. But it seems in America you can say, I didn’t do it, but I am guilty all the same, beats me.

 

[njkruzer]

8 minutes ago, dahirsh said:

 

I can't imagine a lawyer who is either bringing the civil suit forward or is at least aware of it would author or approve the didn't have to admit to the facts line

 

Some lawyers will try anything for money.  Not my cup of tea.

[njkruzer]

2 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

I am stunned that in America you can plead guilty without admitting to the facts needed to constitute the crime. Sometimes it can take longer to come to a statement of agreed facts than run a hearing, but if the accused doesn’t agree to facts that constitute the elements of a crime, a hearing it is. But it seems in America you can say, I didn’t do it, but I am guilty all the same, beats me.

 

I understand.  Not sure what was actually done in this matter ( we only have grandfather's statement) but there is a way to not contest the fact but not admit them.  I haven't done criminal defense work in years but recall this could be done.  I still think it can be used against him in a civil matter and he would no longer have a 5th amendment right to refuse to testify during a deposition or at a trial.

[GUT2407]

1 hour ago, njkruzer said:

I understand.  Not sure what was actually done in this matter ( we only have grandfather's statement) but there is a way to not contest the fact but not admit them.  I haven't done criminal defense work in years but recall this could be done.  I still think it can be used against him in a civil matter and he would no longer have a 5th amendment right to refuse to testify during a deposition or at a trial.

Thank you, I haven’t done defence work in a long time either, (in fact can’t remember the last time I ran a criminal hearing) but just found the whole issue strange, plus here in Australia, another jurisdiction, say civil, equity or family, won’t go behind a conviction. I.E. if he was Convicted to all intents and purposes the other court will accept that he did it.  The opposite doesn’t apply, an acquittal won’t be accepted as proof you didn’t do it, different standards of proof. Of course an acquittal never proves you didn’t do it, just that the prosecution failed to prove their case.

[njkruzer]

4 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Thank you, I haven’t done defence work in a long time either, (in fact can’t remember the last time I ran a criminal hearing) but just found the whole issue strange, plus here in Australia, another jurisdiction, say civil, equity or family, won’t go behind a conviction. I.E. if he was Convicted to all intents and purposes the other court will accept that he did it.  The opposite doesn’t apply, an acquittal won’t be accepted as proof you didn’t do it, different standards of proof. Of course an acquittal never proves you didn’t do it, just that the prosecution failed to prove their case.

My thoughts also, that he won't be able to contest his conviction and can't say he doesn't want to testify.   Hope all is well down under.  We were in Sydney on board the Radiance,  having sailed the circumnavigation and about to sail for New Zealand when we were told to go home.  Had a great trip.

[Etta1213]

The child's death was a nightmare. The grandfather will in my imagination relive the horror for the rest of his life, both when awake and when asleep. 

[Etta1213]

7 hours ago, babs135 said:

Grandfather Sentenced For Dropping Daughter From Cruise Ship Deck | HuffPost

 

Could someone please explain what is entailed in 3 years probation?  Is it just reporting to certain authorities ?

Probationers report either in person or by mail, sometimes a combination of the two. Probation payments, fines, court costs, restitution payments can be included in the court order. Community service hours are sometimes required. Urine tests can be required to test for illegal drug use. Classes such as Rational Behavior Therapy can be court-ordered. A psychiatric evaluation can be required. Travel often is restricted, with travel permits required.

[ReneeFLL]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I will cut him some slack.  I am sure the guilt of his actions are clouding his memory.  It is natural that someone would block out part of the memory

I won’t cut him any slack, because he did one of the dumbest things possible and continues to blame Royal. If the guilt is clouding his memory does he think the videos were photoshopped? How can he not see what is right in front of him? He deserved jail time.

[njkruzer]

8 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Our last one was 5 weeks circumnavigation, Bali, and a few stops in NZ, the one we cancelled was 33 nights just Aus and Bali but a few different ports to last time. As the deparyure day draws near I get more depressed, but not 100% the back would hold up so probably for the best.

Our passports say we went to Bali but we didn't.  Had to meet Australia rules for a foreign port , then the next day had to appear before Australia border forces to be readmitted to Australia,  even though we had never left the ship!

[njkruzer]

7 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

Probationers report either in person or by mail, sometimes a combination of the two. Probation payments, fines, court costs, restitution payments can be included in the court order. Community service hours are sometimes required. Urine tests can be required to test for illegal drug use. Classes such as Rational Behavior Therapy can be court-ordered. A psychiatric evaluation can be required. Travel often is restricted, with travel permits required.

I assume Puerto Rico turned over his probation supervision to another authority where he lives.

[GUT2407]

1 minute ago, njkruzer said:

Our passports say we went to Bali but we didn't.  Had to meet Australia rules for a foreign port , then the next day had to appear before Australia border forces to be readmitted to Australia,  even though we had never left the ship!

We didn’t get off either, but you entered Balinese waters. The reason for the stop is to qualify for duty free shopping. I’d have to double check but pretty sure the one next week was going to stop there too, but some do PNG instead, which I would prefer.

[njkruzer]

2 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

We didn’t get off either, but you entered Balinese waters. The reason for the stop is to qualify for duty free shopping. I’d have to double check but pretty sure the one next week was going to stop there too, but some do PNG instead, which I would prefer.

Royal already knew about covid and suspected it was in Indonesia even though they denied it. So no one could get off.

[Etta1213]

11 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

I assume Puerto Rico turned over his probation supervision to another authority where he lives

His home state would be asked to conduct Courtesy Supervision.

[compman9]

I disagree with all criticism of the grandfather's statement. I think he has done the right thing for his family.

 

It is vital that he blame the large, faceless, billion-dollar corporation. The whispers behind their backs will continue in his community, but he has a social defence. It also provides him something to focus on, while grieving.

 

However, the guilt will always be there. He will know when he closes his eyes every night to try to sleep - He was a hundred percent responsible for his granddaughter's death.

 

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, dahirsh said:

 

Is this real?  It reads like it was made up by someone who new it sounded ridiculous.  Relieved that he didn't have to admit to facts?

Any facts that he admitted in court (or any facts developed at trial, for that matter) would automatically be admissible in the civil trial. He will have to admit his facts in the civil court, though, he can't refuse to testify.

Edited February 9, 2021 by sparks1093

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

I am stunned that in America you can plead guilty without admitting to the facts needed to constitute the crime. Sometimes it can take longer to come to a statement of agreed facts than run a hearing, but if the accused doesn’t agree to facts that constitute the elements of a crime, a hearing it is. But it seems in America you can say, I didn’t do it, but I am guilty all the same, beats me.

 

 

7 hours ago, njkruzer said:

I understand.  Not sure what was actually done in this matter ( we only have grandfather's statement) but there is a way to not contest the fact but not admit them.  I haven't done criminal defense work in years but recall this could be done.  I still think it can be used against him in a civil matter and he would no longer have a 5th amendment right to refuse to testify during a deposition or at a trial.

It's called Nolo Contendre, which means the defendant doesn't wish to contend his guilt, a guilty plea without having to admit anything. I don't believe the 5th amendment extends to a civil trial, that's only in criminal cases. You can't sue someone and then refuse to testify, your case would be tossed in a heart beat. (Disclaimer- I am not an attorney but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, once.)

[livingonthebeach]

Here's the video that shows the grandfather leaning out the window before he picked up his granddaughter and placed her on the railing:

 

 

[A&L_Ont]

4 hours ago, compman9 said:

I disagree with all criticism of the grandfather's statement. I think he has done the right thing for his family.

 

It is vital that he blame the large, faceless, billion-dollar corporation. The whispers behind their backs will continue in his community, but he has a social defence. It also provides him something to focus on, while grieving.

 

However, the guilt will always be there. He will know when he closes his eyes every night to try to sleep - He was a hundred percent responsible for his granddaughter's death.

 

And how do you feel about the civil case the family is continuing on with?

[ace2542]

40 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

We do have a plethora of completely senseless crime including domestic abuse up to and including killing children

Look at the baby in Wisconsin.  Fwiw we have never had a case of fetal abduction in the UK nor a case of kidnap of baby not for years and years not since the mid 90s I don't think. Or hospital security is too tight for that to happen. It cannot happen apparently no. And with the size of the country there would be no point to either crime.