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Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?


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12 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Isn't meteorology science too?  They state they can accurately predict what the weather will be like in 10 years but they still get tomorrow's weather wrong.  In my next life, I want a job where I continue to have the job even when I keep getting it wrong.  😄

 

The 10 year predictions are for climate not weather. 

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22 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

Yeah, but....don’t think anybody predicted it. If you have a link to a model that predicted a drop like this,  I’d love to see it. Very curious about the models that inform public health decisions. Of course, nothing is perfect. That’s science.  But the only predictions I’ve ever seen suggest that things will get worse. Forever.  

The projections on the 'wordometer' covid pages always show the future as increased cases and deaths. Needless to say, their past projections did not match actual events - but apparently they are continuing to use the same models.

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47 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

Yeah, but....don’t think anybody predicted it. If you have a link to a model that predicted a drop like this,  I’d love to see it. Very curious about the models that inform public health decisions. Of course, nothing is perfect. That’s science.  But the only predictions I’ve ever seen suggest that things will get worse. Forever.  

 

This website has a good selection of models you can pick through and explains all their differences:

Where The Latest COVID-19 Models Think We're Headed — And Why They Disagree

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1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Isn't meteorology science too?  They state they can accurately predict what the weather will be like in 10 years but they still get tomorrow's weather wrong.  In my next life, I want a job where I continue to have the job even when I keep getting it wrong.  😄

At some point wouldn't you agree that keeping on  "...getting it wrong."  might disqualify you for keeping that job?

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1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

The 10 year predictions are for climate not weather. 

 

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

At some point wouldn't you agree that keeping on  "...getting it wrong."  might disqualify you for keeping that job?

I stand corrected.  It is the climatologists who tell us what the weather will be like in ten years. 

 

All of meteorology, climatology, volcanology and Seismology are part of the Earth Sciences, which are very adept at predicting what disasters may befall us and when.

 

I can fully understand why we must 'follow the science' without question or debate.  Science is fact, not opinion.  This is why they always get it right?  Anybody here ever get a second medical opinion?  MD's are also scientists.  Why would anybody ever do that?

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2 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I stand corrected. It is the climatologists who tell us what the weather will be like in ten years. 

 

You're nearly there, using the right terminology will increase your armchair expertise😜. They model what the climate will be like in 10 years. From that you can make a guess as to the most likely weather events in particular climatic conditions. Two words two very different meanings 😁

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1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You're nearly there, using the right terminology will increase your armchair expertise😜. They model what the climate will be like in 10 years. From that you can make a guess as to the most likely weather events in particular climatic conditions. Two words two very different meanings 😁

Again, I love learning new stuff!

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20 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I can fully understand why we must 'follow the science' without question or debate.  Science is fact, not opinion.  This is why they always get it right?  Anybody here ever get a second medical opinion?  MD's are also scientists.  Why would anybody ever do that?

 

The science -- the scientific facts -- do not change. It is our interpretation and understanding that is imperfect. And is what most "scientists" are working to improve.

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On 2/12/2021 at 1:38 PM, Daniel A said:

Yes - My question is: Will you cruise if they don't require a vaccination?

 

Yes to first question.

 

Probably no to second.

 

- Joel

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On 2/15/2021 at 10:09 AM, evandbob said:

The debate about vax safety can occur shoreside as anyone serious enough not to get vaxxed can't board.

 

Enjoy your debate while only vaxxed people set sail.  I'll feel better on board and so will the non vaxxed on land, what's the issue?  Sounds like a win/win.

The issue is that YOU are saying that a public company that is providing a public service, and other people should do what you believe in and do exactly what say or else be excluded so that you feel “safe”. 
Sorry, but the world is not your personal safe space, you can’t control others, and it shouldn’t just be your way or no way. My parents taught me that at a young age, and I assumed that others had learned the same lesson...


 If you are afraid to be on a large ship around thousands of other people or any other place for that matter, then maybe you should stay in the one place where you can control your surroundings & who is in them (your home).
The WHO has already said that this vaccine will not stop the spread of Covid, so you aren’t going to be protected anyways. This vaccination is obviously giving people a false sense of security that is unwarranted since it hasn’t even been properly studied in the long term, and they’re already talking about regular booster shots. AKA they don’t have faith that it works. 
 
As someone who cannot wear a mask due to underlying health issues who has been denied basic rights and access to basic medical services, seeing my pulmonologist (dangerous!), grocery stores, transportation, banking services, shops, etc.. for 9 months now (limited wearing of a mask last Spring almost killed me, and no I am not high risk...I just have sensitive airways & am fine if I avoid my triggers like extreme humidity )... I am tired of selfish people such as you demanding that people do things your way, or be denied equal access & rights, and then brushing it off like it’s no big deal since it doesn’t effect you personally. And then completely ignoring how your demands or views might effects others. The sooner people stop living in fear, and re-learn to coexist with people who are physically different or have differing viewpoints, the better off we will be.
I don’t mean to be harsh, but the truth isn’t always fun to hear. Please stay safe.

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13 hours ago, TheOldBear said:

The tests may not quite be the same - for example the PCR test cycle threshold may have been adjusted lower making the test less sensitive.

 

That is exactly what happened, one hour after Biden was inaugurated on the 20th of January. As with everything involved in this Pandemic , the major Organizations adjusted the numbers to fit their agenda...They wanted the numbers to go down, so they made it happen. 
 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/one-hour-after-biden-inaugurated-who-changes-covid-testing-criteria

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2 hours ago, LCWatson said:

The issue is that YOU are saying that a public company that is providing a public service, 

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic. Or did you create a new account to post the same old same old?

 

Cruise lines are not public companies providing a public service. They are private companies providing a nonessential service to make a profit for their investors. 

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3 hours ago, LCWatson said:

 it shouldn’t just be your way or no way. My parents taught me that at a young age, and I assumed that others had learned the same lesson... 


 If you are afraid to be on a large ship around thousands of other people or any other place for that matter, then maybe you should stay in the one place where you can control your surroundings & who is in them (your home).

 

But that's just what you are suggesting. The majority of people have no problem wearing masks, but you seem to want them all to shelter in place just so that you can go maskless. :classic_dry:

 

 

3 hours ago, LCWatson said:

The WHO has already said that this vaccine will not stop the spread of Covid, so you aren’t going to be protected anyways. This vaccination is obviously giving people a false sense of security that is unwarranted since it hasn’t even been properly studied in the long term, and they’re already talking about regular booster shots. AKA they don’t have faith that it works. 

 

Incorrect. 

 

WHO has not said the vaccine will not stop transmission, only that we don't know yet. And booster shots are not given because doctors "don't have faith" in the vaccine but rather because the virus mutates -- which is much more likely to happen, the higher the infection rate is.

 

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1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic. Or did you create a new account to post the same old same old?

 

Cruise lines are not public companies providing a public service. They are private companies providing a nonessential service to make a profit for their investors. 

I have been on here for years reading the threads, but never felt the need to comment before now. 
They do provide a public service, and should service everyone who wishes to partake, not pick and choose as I’ve experienced over the past year.... Just like grocery stores, hospitals, and other businesses. 

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12 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

I stand corrected.  It is the climatologists who tell us what the weather will be like in ten years. 

 

All of meteorology, climatology, volcanology and Seismology are part of the Earth Sciences, which are very adept at predicting what disasters may befall us and when.

 

I can fully understand why we must 'follow the science' without question or debate.  Science is fact, not opinion.  This is why they always get it right?  Anybody here ever get a second medical opinion?  MD's are also scientists.  Why would anybody ever do that?

The fact that there are multiple models tells us that we really don’t know exactly what is happening. And that is OK. What bothers me is when doctors and politicians act as if they “ know” what will happen going forward. The fact is that cases have dropped 75% in this country and no one knows why. And it’s happening all around the world. Each country likes to tout its own approach as being the reason why cases are down there.  But they have no real clue.

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23 minutes ago, LCWatson said:

I have been on here for years reading the threads, but never felt the need to comment before now. 
They do provide a public service, and should service everyone who wishes to partake, not pick and choose as I’ve experienced over the past year.... Just like grocery stores, hospitals, and other businesses. 

 

You might want to check the definition of public service. Cruise lines don't really fit:

What is a Public Service

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32 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

Each country likes to tout its own approach as being the reason why cases are down there.  But they have no real clue.

 

I'm pretty sure Australia and New Zealand can tell you why their cases are down.

 

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20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm pretty sure Australia and New Zealand can tell you why their cases are down.

 

Yes, and other places can also.

1. More people are taking masking and social distancing seriously.

2. The vaccine rollout has begun.

3. It is also down because it is coming off a historic high that was predicted after Christmas/New Years vacation travel.

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1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

The fact that there are multiple models tells us that we really don’t know exactly what is happening. And that is OK. What bothers me is when doctors and politicians act as if they “ know” what will happen going forward. The fact is that cases have dropped 75% in this country and no one knows why. And it’s happening all around the world. Each country likes to tout its own approach as being the reason why cases are down there.  But they have no real clue.

The doctors and politicians realize they are looking at models with predictions based on past data and at least the doctors are willing to keep up and be fluid in their predictions. If you really want to know the absolute future, you need to read cc.

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3 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

The doctors and politicians realize they are looking at models with predictions based on past data and at least the doctors are willing to keep up and be fluid in their predictions. If you really want to know the absolute future, you need to read cc.

🤣  I see what ya did there

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22 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Science is factual.  Opinion requires debate.  

Science is interpretation of facts. Several scientists may interpret the same set of facts differently. I know this because I spent over 40 years in medical research. You have to look deeper to see how those “facts” were arrived at. So yes, science is debatable and even non professionals can raise intelligent questions.

 

Also, not responding to you, but in general comments.

I work at a very large medical institution and roughly 1 in 3-5 who have been vaccinated have experienced side effects severe enough to keep them from work from a couple of days up to a month. No data on long term effects. I am not saying take your chances with Covid because, as someone here is sure to point out, I know some people have lasting effects more severe than vaccine effects. But many people also have no Sx from the disease.

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While I respect a persons right to NOT be vaccinated for any vaccine, (their body, their choice), I will get the vaccine if lines require it.

 

I just want to go on vacation and my desire to get away outweights my worry of growing a third limb.

 

 

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19 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Part of that drop is of course people getting vaccinated. But the magnitude of the drop is also a reflection of the drop was from an all time high. The all time high was predicted and came about because of holiday travel.

Surely it can't be from who is in the white house now.  I mean really who couldn't see cases dropping from that?

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