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Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?


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On 2/12/2021 at 3:03 PM, moodyb1 said:

I think a vaccine should be mandatory. The safer the better. I have recovered from Covid-19 and it's something you don't want to get!! I'm getting my first shot in March and the second a few weeks after. No fools should be allowed aboard, IMO!

Bravo!  We have had both of our vaccine shots now, and I do not want to cruise with anyone who hasn't had it.  On the other hand, I will not cruise if a mask is required.  I wear a face fully covered shield now, as my doctor doesn't want me to wear a mask, since my oxygen level drops 4-5% if I wear one.  I think every passenger should be vaccinated, and then, let's cruise as normal.

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11 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I understand that, but some people don't. 

I do find it strange popping onto this forum, that so many of the doubts and issues about the new vaccines raised here,  were dispelled a considerable time ago in the UK, by a combination of factual reports in the newspapers, and medical experts appearing in various scientific programmes on mass media.

The result has been that the uptake of the vaccine in the UK (25% of the population and rising)has been phenomenal,  with a consequent substantial decline in the CV19 death rate.

Did the US not have a similar education programme ? It certainly doesn't appear so, given some of the bizarre posts I have read.

Edited by wowzz
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7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I do find it strange popping onto this forum, that so many of the doubts and issues about the new vaccines raised here,  were dispelled a considerable time ago in the UK, by a combination of factual reports in the newspapers, and medical experts appearing in various scientific programmes on mass media.

The result has been that the uptake of the vaccine in the UK (25% of the population and rising)has been phenomenal,  with a consequent substantial decline in the CV19 death rate.

Did the US not have a similar education programme ? It certainly doesn't appear so, given some of the bizarre posts I have read.

 

I don't think it is just about educating, it is also lack of trust. In the USA from what I read there seems to be a real lack of trust in institutions😳. To be honest I think the politics really fuelled all the mistrust. It was just unlucky the pandemic hit on an election year otherwise maybe everyone would have been more unified there would have been less contradictory messages😕

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4 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

The meaning was you can travel with almost no restrictions other than the common sense of getting tested. I have been working with a TA on an AI to Cancun, Jamaica, Punta Cana and other trips to St Thomas, St Maarten, and Cozumel. The only real criteria is to be tested. The only return requirement is to be tested. This is not rocket science. 

 

To hold cruise lines to a completely different standard, from a US perspective, is ridiculous. Port countries can have their own rules. In most cases, they wouldn't be any different than they are now. None require vaccine, only negative testing. That same requirement should be on the cruise industry as well. Instead, there are political reasons why cruise lines are shutdown. Even the ports are saying they should be open. All covid has done is proven that the CDC is too ill-prepared for pandemics, they have far too much reach and power, and they have absolutely no clue what they are doing. To prove that last one: no cruises and 100% immunity from covid and carrying it on airline, no mask, wear a mask, don't wear a gaiter, gaiters are fine, medical masks are not good enough, medical masks are perfectly fine, wearing 1 mask does nothing you have to wear 2, vaccines are great but not perfect. In other words, they clearly have stated they have no clue. Adn yes, I will say it to any one of the overpaid people running it.

 

Obviously the unsubtle differences between cruise ship travel and air travel completely escape this poster. As do the differences between cruise ships and islands.

 

Of course standards are different. Just as the USCG has different safety standards than those of various Caribbean islands. Yet I haven't seen any posts suggesting that there is an unfair double standard when it comes to maritime safety.

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5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

You failed to see the point!!! None require a vaccine. No one has been against taking a covid test. I am 100% for the procedures in place. I am 100% in favor of vaccination for those that can voluntarily get it. I am 100% against restrictions for those that have no possibility of being vaccinated kids under 16). I would agree to more rigorous testing for kids under 16 as well because they cannot be vaccinated. 

I think that you fail to see the limitations of testing.  Yes, testing is a valuable tool.  But the current tests all have some major limitations.  For starters, there are false negatives (which have risen to nearly 20% in some studies of antigen tests).  An even bigger problem is no test (not even the best PCR tests) will show if a person has recently (within the previous 2-4 days) been exposed to COVID.  False positives are also an issue (primarily with antigen tests) which can cause some grief.

 

As to you traveling to Mexico, come on down :).  We have been living in Puerto Vallarta since Jan 3.  There is no testing requirement to enter Mexico.  You simply get on a plane and you will be in Mexico in a few hours.  COVID is a problem here in Mexico so one is well advised to first get vaccinated or, alternatively, follow strict and common sense COVID mitigation measures.  Under the current CDC rules you will need to be tested (antigen or PCR test) within 3 days before your return flight to the USA...but getting tested in Mexico has become quite easy and relatively inexpensive (especially for antigen tests).   Ironically, you could simply enter the USA as an illegal (by slipping over the border) in which case you would not need any test and the government might even pay to get you home (but only if they think you are an illegal alien).

 

Hank

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9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I've tried that website but find it is very glitchy for me. That was why I put the link to the other website, I think it is easier for others to navigate and more accessible. 

 

That's too bad as the site is rock solid for me especially if you like looking at data as much as getting answers.   I like the fact that it allows one to make direct comparisons as well as slice the data along different aspects.  

 

The breadth of data is simply without parallel to other sites open to the public.  A good example of the  democratization of data that is possible when the net gets applied well.

All our related research and data

Charts

Edited by SelectSys
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1 hour ago, wowzz said:

I do find it strange popping onto this forum, that so many of the doubts and issues about the new vaccines raised here,  were dispelled a considerable time ago in the UK, by a combination of factual reports in the newspapers, and medical experts appearing in various scientific programmes on mass media.

The result has been that the uptake of the vaccine in the UK (25% of the population and rising)has been phenomenal,  with a consequent substantial decline in the CV19 death rate.

Did the US not have a similar education programme ? It certainly doesn't appear so, given some of the bizarre posts I have read.

I would echo the response below, there is a lot of mistrust in our media outlets in the US right now and the entire situation has been politicized to the point that trust in information is at a low point for many. 

57 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I don't think it is just about educating, it is also lack of trust. In the USA from what I read there seems to be a real lack of trust in institutions😳. To be honest I think the politics really fuelled all the mistrust. It was just unlucky the pandemic hit on an election year otherwise maybe everyone would have been more unified there would have been less contradictory messages😕

 

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2 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Nobody in my family disagrees with me.  Nobody is getting it.  My in laws in their 70's said no way.  Not being a guinea pig.

 

 

Over 66 million doses have been given out so far in the US alone. Tens of thousands were involved in clinical trials in which some of the data is now more than 6 months since vaccination. And there are two months' reporting on those receiving vaccinations in the broader public since the emergency use approval. So far, there does not appear to be any greater risks associated with vaccination -- in particular in regard to anaphylaxis (about same risks as any vaccine) or death.

 

So -- at what point will you and your family be satisfied that you're not "guinea pigs"?

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3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

So -- at what point will you and your family be satisfied that you're not "guinea pigs"?

Why are we having this discussion?  Anonymous bloggers aren't likely to convince anybody to do anything they're afraid of.  It would be nice to get back to the original question of "will you sail if vaccinations are required yes/no?"

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The difference in technologies associated with medical testing from even 10 years ago, much less comparing testing to the era of polio, is staggering.  Today they can approve vaccines and other medical treatments quickly using subjects and computers.  Don't need to wait years.  Testing of the Pfizer. Moderna, J&J and other western vaccines is better today than it was just a  few years ago.  I would not be able to say that about the Chinese and Russian vaccines...

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There is nothing new about the "anti-vax" state of mind.  I have posted before about my lifetime working in healthcare (insurance) and the constant problems and efforts we would make to try and overcome the anti-vax sentiments in the community.  COVID is no different.  Just the other evening we were out to dinner with 2 Canadian couples (friends) and we started talking about the vaccine situation.   We expected our Canadian friends to be concerned about the pace of the rollout in their country but were surprised that two of them (one an eye doctor) have no desire to get either of the mRNA vaccines (Moderna or Pfizer) and the other couple was also hedging on the issue.  These are all very educated folks who are not into conspiracy stuff....but they have an issue with COVID vaccines.  

 

What we are going to see in the USA is very predictable.  In the next few months the supply and availability of vaccines will catch-up and exceed the demand after which there will be a PR campaign to "encourage" more folks to get vaccinated.   But there will be considerable resistance which will, unfortunately, make it much more difficult to get COVID under control.   Partially because of the anti-vax resistance coupled with delays in vaccination allowing time for more virus mutation, I think COVID is going to a problem for many years (possibly decades) to come.   Even those who have already been infected with COVID and recovered can easily get this disease again (the antibodies disappear over a period of months) so we will have a flu like situation of constant COVID problems.   And even if we can achieve a relatively high percentage of vaccine participation the entire cycle repeats as we need these folks to get periodic booster shots.  

 

And for us on CC who love to cruise this all is a real nightmare.  Society has evolved (pushed by politicians and some health experts) into a situation where "zero risk" is seen as the goal.  But zero risk of diseases like COVID do not happen (just look at the flu, measles, etc. for some examples).  If cruise ships are held to a zero risk standard it is difficult to imagine how there will ever be a major cruise industry in the near future.

 

Hank

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25 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

Over 66 million doses have been given out so far in the US alone. Tens of thousands were involved in clinical trials in which some of the data is now more than 6 months since vaccination. And there are two months' reporting on those receiving vaccinations in the broader public since the emergency use approval. So far, there does not appear to be any greater risks associated with vaccination -- in particular in regard to anaphylaxis (about same risks as any vaccine) or death.

 

So -- at what point will you and your family be satisfied that you're not "guinea pigs"?

Never, not getting it.  If there has been a broad bad reaction or even deaths do you think the fake news media is going to tell the public that.  They lie about everything.

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Well, based on my relatives and friends who got vaccinated, its all safe to do and there are no side effects. However, me, as a person who has never done a single vaccine in his life, I am still in doubt cause I dont want anything unknown getting inside my body 

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49 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

So -- at what point will you and your family be satisfied that you're not "guinea pigs"?

I think the threshold many are waiting for is the official FDA license of the Covid vax.  Right now, it's only authorized under an "Emergency Use Authorization":

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/
 

"The abbreviated timelines for the emergency use applications and authorizations means there is much the FDA does not know about these products even as it authorizes them for emergency use, including their effectiveness against asymptomatic infection, death, and transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes the disease.

 

Given the uncertainty about the two vaccines, their EUAs are explicit that each is “an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication” and require that all “promotional material relating to the Covid-19 Vaccine clearly and conspicuously … state that this product has not been approved or licensed by the FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA”"

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1 hour ago, jfunk138 said:

I think the threshold many are waiting for is the official FDA license of the Covid vax.  Right now, it's only authorized under an "Emergency Use Authorization":
 

But that is not what the posters in this thread who are adamant about not getting the vaccine are saying. They emphasize the word NEVER!

 

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

There is nothing new about the "anti-vax" state of mind.  I have posted before about my lifetime working in healthcare (insurance) and the constant problems and efforts we would make to try and overcome the anti-vax sentiments in the community.  COVID is no different.  Just the other evening we were out to dinner with 2 Canadian couples (friends) and we started talking about the vaccine situation.   We expected our Canadian friends to be concerned about the pace of the rollout in their country but were surprised that two of them (one an eye doctor) have no desire to get either of the mRNA vaccines (Moderna or Pfizer) and the other couple was also hedging on the issue.  These are all very educated folks who are not into conspiracy stuff....but they have an issue with COVID vaccines.  

 

 

From your experience, can you give an estimate of what percentage of the population is made up of anti-vaxxers? Do you think the percentage might be lower for the Covid shots because of the bombardment we all receive of the death toll? Or could it possibly be higher since there have not been vaccines in the past that were approved for emergency use so quickly, and this scares some people?

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1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

At least skim the Time article for more information about the campaign.  Many factors contributed to electoral success/failure in 2020.

I don't need to 'skim' an article from Time, I wasn't referencing the whole election issues, just the part where trust in the vaccine was undermined for political gains.  Now, they have to work hard to walk it back.

Edited by Daniel A
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1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

Never, not getting it.  If there has been a broad bad reaction or even deaths do you think the fake news media is going to tell the public that.  They lie about everything.

“Never” is a very long word - and not recommended for use by people capable of ever changing their mind.

 

Can you identify the “fake news media”?   Are they outlets like the New York Times and major TV networks,  or are they the proliferating on line outlets which usually have tear-jerking stories about sports and entertainment personalities (and may very well be sponsored by Russian, Chinese or Iranian disinformation offices who are delighted to feed discontent )?

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4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I liked most of your post, but understand that as the vaccines become more widely available, it will be the unvaccinated who will be the only vectors of the disease, prolonging the pandemic and attendant restrictions.  So, if the restrictions continue in place it will only be because of those who refused to be vaccinated.  I have a similar train of thought as yours about vaccinations and continuing to need to abide by restrictions.  I'm just not ready to end up on a ventilator at this point in my life, so I will readily accept the vaccine.  If vaccinated, and cruise lines will still require masks and quarantines it's not worth it to me to get on a cruise ship but it's clearly worth my life to take the vaccine.

 

Except they are already saying that getting vaccinated doesn't mean a return to normalcy.  A Vaccination was the Holy Grail, and now it is not good enough.  Fauci just said that vaccinations notwithstanding, we should be wearing masks well into 2022.

And I'm old enough to remember when it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve.

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4 hours ago, wowzz said:

The amount of clinical trials carried out were greater than would normally be the case, but because immediate funding was available, there was not the need to wait for additional monies to become available between each trial stage. Hence the ability to safely speed up the development progress.

I'm amazed that this same old mantra keeps getting wheeled out, given that all the approved  vaccines have gone through the same approval process that has been used for all previous vaccines.

 

There are 2 components of a trial, the number of people and the length of the trial.  No previous vaccine was approved based on trials of such relatively short duration.

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1 hour ago, Roger88 said:

Well, based on my relatives and friends who got vaccinated, its all safe to do and there are no side effects. However, me, as a person who has never done a single vaccine in his life, I am still in doubt cause I dont want anything unknown getting inside my body 

Do you catch your own fish,  grind your own flour, bake your own bread, make your own pizza — doesn’t eating food constitute putting stuff inside your body?  Trying anything much more complex than an apple you picked yourself involves trust.

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1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Do you catch your own fish,  grind your own flour, bake your own bread, make your own pizza — doesn’t eating food constitute putting stuff inside your body?  Trying anything much more complex than an apple you picked yourself involves trust.

If you didn't sit in the orchard and watch that apple grow, you don't really know what was sprayed onto it.

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6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Except they are already saying that getting vaccinated doesn't mean a return to normalcy.  A Vaccination was the Holy Grail, and now it is not good enough.  Fauci just said that vaccinations notwithstanding, we should be wearing masks well into 2022.

And I'm old enough to remember when it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve.

Fauci did walk that statement back the next day saying if two people are vaccinated, common sense says they don't need to use 'stringent public health measures.'

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