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Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?


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4 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Except they are already saying that getting vaccinated doesn't mean a return to normalcy.  A Vaccination was the Holy Grail, and now it is not good enough.  Fauci just said that vaccinations notwithstanding, we should be wearing masks well into 2022.

And I'm old enough to remember when it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve.

Some of us are old enough to remember 2019 - when there was no COVID - and intelligent enough to recognize that new problems require learning new responses —- and mature enough to not demand instant infallibility of those we hire to work on those new problems.

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1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

Fauci did walk that statement back the next day saying if two people are vaccinated, common sense says they don't need to use 'stringent public health measures.'

He hasn't walked this back though:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-vaccinated-people-should-not-indoor-dine-go-to-theaters-2021-2

 

"There are things, even if you're vaccinated, that you're not going to be able to do in society," Fauci said on Monday during a White House COVID-19 press briefing. "For example, indoor dining, theaters, places where people congregate. That's because of the safety of society."

 

indoor dining: cruises

theaters:  cruises

places where people congregate:  cruises

 

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4 hours ago, wowzz said:

I do find it strange popping onto this forum, that so many of the doubts and issues about the new vaccines raised here,  were dispelled a considerable time ago in the UK, by a combination of factual reports in the newspapers, and medical experts appearing in various scientific programmes on mass media.

The result has been that the uptake of the vaccine in the UK (25% of the population and rising)has been phenomenal,  with a consequent substantial decline in the CV19 death rate.

Did the US not have a similar education programme ? It certainly doesn't appear so, given some of the bizarre posts I have read.

 

Our education consisted of a cacophony of claims by top level politicians on one side that they would resist taking any vaccine that was developed under the prior administration.

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13 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Fauci did walk that statement back the next day saying if two people are vaccinated, common sense says they don't need to use 'stringent public health measures.'

 

I thought we followed the science and we are always updating recommendations accordingly.  So what happened in one day to change the science and cause the walkback?

 

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Just now, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I don't know what that means.  A Google search only turned up a rap group that you would get  canceled for if you said their full name in public.

 

It is a shorthand sort of universal alternate answer - which can be read 

Now  We Agree  or Not Worth Answering.  

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31 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

“Never” is a very long word - and not recommended for use by people capable of ever changing their mind.

 

Can you identify the “fake news media”?   Are they outlets like the New York Times and major TV networks,  or are they the proliferating on line outlets which usually have tear-jerking stories about sports and entertainment personalities (and may very well be sponsored by Russian, Chinese or Iranian disinformation offices who are delighted to feed discontent )?


I would suggest a healthy skepticism of these media outlets is worthwhile.  While not fake, the media has traditionally represented a particular opinion of viewpoint.  The American public tends to support this view as they have been burned by advocacy pieces from big corporate media with little to back them up and later dismissed as fiction - no Russians, Chinese or Iranians needed!

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-russiagate-steele-dossier/

 

To me, the attempted discrediting of new sources is really about maintaining power and relevance by big everything.  Add in those indoctrinated from birth by progressive rather than liberal education ideals and away we go!  The younger, woke journalists certainly don't think much of objective journalism these days:

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/objectivity-neutrality-not-option-some-journalists

 

BTW - you are correct, never is a long time.  Too bad life is short!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Never, not getting it.  If there has been a broad bad reaction or even deaths do you think the fake news media is going to tell the public that.  They lie about everything.

 

So, then it is NOT (as you originally stated) a matter of you not wanting to be guinea pigs. Might as well be honest, eh? 

 

No proof is ever enough for certain conspiracy theorists. How they even convince themselves to get behind the wheel of a car or purchase food from a store is a mystery to me....

 

image.thumb.png.96e2d0eeb7307e59bdb11ad1f8332fe4.png

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1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I thought we followed the science and we are always updating recommendations accordingly.  So what happened in one day to change the science and cause the walkback?

 

 

New data?  Completed analysis?  Political expediency?  What does "Occam's Razor" suggest to you?

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5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

The misinformation that the vaccine was 'rushed' is what is causing people to be hesitant.  The vaccine was not 'rushed through.'  The research into corona virus vaccines is years old, starting in 2005 with the original SARS outbreak.  What Operation Warp Speed did was to cut out the bureaucratic red tape to enable the vaccines to come to market sooner.

 

See:  SARS Vaccine Development (nih.gov)

 

 

And, the MRNA technology has been around since 1990.

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2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

From your experience, can you give an estimate of what percentage of the population is made up of anti-vaxxers? Do you think the percentage might be lower for the Covid shots because of the bombardment we all receive of the death toll? Or could it possibly be higher since there have not been vaccines in the past that were approved for emergency use so quickly, and this scares some people?

It depends on your definition of the term "anti-vaxers."   At work we considered anyone who refused to get a vaccine as an anti-vaxer even though some may have had a legitimate medical reason not to get a shot.    But consider that in the USA, Australia and several other first world countries with good healthcare systems, only about 50-55% of the population routinely get flu shots.  The flu still kills a lot of folks, puts many others in the hospital, causes a lot of related medical bills (my issue) and results in millions of lost word days.  Several polls have shown that it will be difficult to get much above the 70% threshold with the COVID vaccines and sadly that percentage will be lower in some of groups highest at risk.  Go figure.

 

You may be right that the fast approvals have scared some folks, but that still would make them an anti-vaxer until they changed their minds.   I recently read a detailed article (more then most would want to know) about what it is like to become seriously ill and die from COVID, and it is a horrendous tale that most would prefer to ignore.   I doubt if there are any among those struggling to breathe in an isolated hospital bed who would admit to being an anti-vaxer :(.  

 

Logic does not often work with many of the anti-vaxers.  So, for example, I could point out that over 500,000 have died from COVID in the USA, with many more then that number suffering from various morbidities including kidney failure (there is no cure for this), cardiac damage, lung damage, neurological maladies, etc.  I cannot find a single case of somebody in the USA who has died from either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines although I am sure a few have had nasty reactions.  Considering that nearly 50 million doses have been given that is a darn good safety record.  You can be assured that both DW and me will get vaccinated as soon as possible (things are still a mess in our home State of Pennsylvania).

 

Hank

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5 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Testing of the Pfizer. Moderna, J&J and other western vaccines is better today than it was just a  few years ago.  I would not be able to say that about the Chinese and Russian vaccines...

 

Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine candidate appears safe and effective

 

What do we know about China's coronavirus vaccines?

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Do you catch your own fish,  grind your own flour, bake your own bread, make your own pizza — doesn’t eating food constitute putting stuff inside your body?  Trying anything much more complex than an apple you picked yourself involves trust.

 

It is not just food, think about all the chemicals you breath especially if you live in the city 😳. If our bodies couldn't handle some toxins the human race wouldn't be hear today 😂

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Several polls have shown that it will be difficult to get much above the 70% threshold with the COVID vaccines

That's a really damning figure. The UK has already vaccinated around 90% of those aged over 70, and 66% of those aged between 65 and 69, so the 70% figure will be achieved this weekend.

The roll out to the younger age groups continues, so the 70% figure for the entire adult population will probably be achieved around the end of June.

Whilst there is some resistance to the vaccine, mainly from certain ethnic groups, there is none of the rabid anti vaccine sentiment that I have read in some posts here.  

 

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Australia and several other first world countries with good healthcare systems, only about 50-55% of the population routinely get flu shots.

 

 

Last year the uptake for flu vaccine at around 72%  was much higher due to the concern of getting a double whammy of Covid and influenza. 

 

I am a retired nurse and used to do immunisations in a large medical practice. Maybe it was the demographics in my area which is very diverse in ethnicity, but during flu vaccine time we had a very large uptake of over 85% as shown by our tracking. Sometimes we had would run out of supply and have to wait awhile. The medical practice wasn't the only one in the area doing vaccines . Also trained pharmacists and other medical practices.

 

Though I do know some people who have expressed concern re covid vaccine the majority are willingly to get the vaccine in order to help protect the community and also travel.

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8 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If you didn't sit in the orchard and watch that apple grow, you don't really know what was sprayed onto it.

 

Shouldn't one start with soil tests? And don't forget the air monitoring.

 

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is a shorthand sort of universal alternate answer - which can be read 

Now  We Agree  or Not Worth Answering.  

 

I'm glad you cleared that up. Perhaps you should check the urban dictionary for the term. I thought about flagging the original post when I read that definition.

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8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is a shorthand sort of universal alternate answer

 

“Forty-two!" yelled Loonquawl. "Is that all you've got to show for seven and a half million years' work?"
"I checked it very thoroughly," said the computer, "and that quite definitely is the answer.

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5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I'm sorry, but the correct answer I wrote in response to your post got deleted by the moderators. 

 

There was a counter education program being conducted nationwide here that has suddenly changed since our recent election.  It was interesting to see where another administration's criticisms stayed up, but I guess criticizing another administration won't be allowed here...   😕 

 

And everyone seems to forget that one of the first groups that resisted the vaccine in significant numbers was health care workers.

"Heros during the daytime, anti-vaxxers at night."

People probably think the vaccine was rushed because of of the doom, gloom, and naysaying about whether a vaccine could be developed in this timeframe.  I distinctly recall all of the "it will take a miracle", "they are delusional" responses when the prior Admin talked about their timeline for a vaccine.

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Just to revert back to the original question, it now looks as if the EU hope to have electronic vaccination passports in place later this year.  The UK is also looking to introducing a similar programme. 

I would imagine that such a "passport" will soon become required by most other countries,  and also by airlines as well.

So those who wish to travel outside of their own countries in the future will have no option but to be vaccinated.  

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22 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Nobody in my family disagrees with me.  Nobody is getting it.  My in laws in their 70's said no way.  Not being a guinea pig.

Just a thought! Do you and your family also refuse the yearly Flu shot? It changes every year so are we all guinea pigs then?

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