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Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?


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4 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

"Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA"

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

That's an article written by an ambulance chaser.  The article left out the part that the employee has to be notified that it is their choice whether or not to take the vaccine but the employee must be informed of any consequences for failure to accept it.

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6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

vaccines are dangerous/work of the devil/ were designed on the back of an envelope   

Strawman arguments like what you have written here are yet another reason it just keeps going.  Using the search feature for "devil" and "envelope" there are no instances of these words in this thread.   

 

If you want to argue, make sure you actually argue against the words that are said.

 

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1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Love how you twist facts and use quotes out of context. I guess most are not going to spend the time required to look up the actual information; they are content to believe this crap -- and you talk about sheep! 🐑

 

What is true:

  • Currently approved vaccines did not undergo testing to prove whether they reduce disease TRANSMISSION, only individual infection and outcomes (that is to say, not whether I will infect others, but whether I will get sick.)
  • Historically most vaccines do reduce transmission, but scientists (unlike some people) are not going to make that statement until they have proof.
  • Studies are underway now to look at this and we should all know more soon.
  • Until then, it is wise to treat the vaccine as a way of reducing YOUR OWN RISK of dying of the disease or having a severe enough case to warrant hospitalization. However, if infected, even though you may have mild or no symptoms, you could pass the disease to others.
  • This is why we should still wear masks -- as from the very beginning, they are worn to protect others more so than to protect ourselves.

So why get vaccinated?  Because I don't want to die if I get COVID. It's that simple. Half a million people is, I guess not enough to convince some but it is more than enough to convince me.

In your list, you left out that although it is still too early to come to a conclusion, so far it looks like the vaccine does limit transmission. This is mostly based on the observation of the experience in Israel where the percentage vaccinated is quite high compared to the rest of the world.

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6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

In your list, you left out that although it is still too early to come to a conclusion, so far it looks like the vaccine does limit transmission. This is mostly based on the observation of the experience in Israel where the percentage vaccinated is quite high compared to the rest of the world.

And evidence from the UK also indicates the same.

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38 minutes ago, iancal said:

 in many countries are going to have to consider litigation issues with an eye to their standard 'duty of care'  obligations  when it comes to protecting staff and customers

This is certainly the case in the US where we will have lawyer upon lawyer arguing all sides of the cases.  Sounds like a new torrent of billable hours and settlements in the offing.  

 

36 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

"Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA"

All sides will be bring litigation.  People will also use the lack of vaccine or their inability to take the vaccine as levers to stay home from work.  

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24 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

In your list, you left out that although it is still too early to come to a conclusion, so far it looks like the vaccine does limit transmission. This is mostly based on the observation of the experience in Israel where the percentage vaccinated is quite high compared to the rest of the world.

I think it's far too early to conclude reduced transmission for Israel.  Despite a vaccination rate of 91.55 out 100 (as of 2/26/21), their case rate remains DOUBLE that of the US.  Also this week, their virus reproductive rate Rt increased for the first time in a month.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-08-15..latest&country=USA~ISR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc

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4 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

I think "Cruise Critic" is self-selecting of the most vocal, opinionated folks.  I'm sure a random sampling, of Carnival cruisers in particular, is going to be much more representative of Carnival's customers.  

 

I suspect the average Carnival cruiser is much closer to the "spring break" crowd than the hide in your basement until Covid is over crowd which seems to have infested this forum.

Given that this thread started in a Princess Forum and the moderators later on moved it to the Ask A Cruise Question Forum, you may well be correct that the Carnival demographic will be much younger and combine that with the Facebook crowd you're almost guaranteed they'll be less concerned about catching Covid.  Maybe Carnival would get their customers back since that demographic is still doing the whole 'Girls Gone Wild' thing in the middle of this pandemic.  I would just as soon they stayed on the Carnival ships rather than getting on a Princess ship without being vaccinated.

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4 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Given that this thread started in a Princess Forum and the moderators later on moved it to the Ask A Cruise Question Forum, you may well be correct that the Carnival demographic will be much younger and combine that with the Facebook crowd you're almost guaranteed they'll be less concerned about catching Covid.  Maybe Carnival would get their customers back since that demographic is still doing the whole 'Girls Gone Wild' thing in the middle of this pandemic.  I would just as soon they stayed on the Carnival ships rather than getting on a Princess ship without being vaccinated.

I think many folks would be happy with such an arrangement where some cruiselines/ships are vax-mandatory vs others are vax-optional.  Indeed, this kind of free market approach, might end all arguments from the vax-optional crowd.

The problem, I suspect, is that the vax-mandatory folks will probably argue that vax-optional cruisers will bring covid back home and infect their already vaccinated grandma (somehow...), while ignoring that these same cruisers would just go to Florida, Missouri or some other such place instead and engage in largely the same behavior.

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3 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I think many folks would be happy with such an arrangement where some cruiselines/ships are vax-mandatory vs others are vax-optional.  Indeed, this kind of free market approach, might end all arguments from the vax-optional crowd.

 

Only if the ports / islands were also divided. 

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1 minute ago, broberts said:

 

Only if the ports / islands were also divided. 

Other than private islands which are exclusively cruise passengers how do you suggest to keep spring breakers off other islands?

 

As soon as you are back on land it's much harder to restrict the vaccination status of people you might encounter.

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7 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I think many folks would be happy with such an arrangement where some cruiselines/ships are vax-mandatory vs others are vax-optional.  Indeed, this kind of free market approach, might end all arguments from the vax-optional crowd.
 

 

1 minute ago, broberts said:

 

Only if the ports / islands were also divided. 

 

Maybe there is a future in which a number of the "mega-sized" cruise ships stay in the Caribbean year round, do not require vaccinations and mainly stop at private islands or "accommodating" other ports like Mexico.

 

Meanwhile perhaps medium to smaller ships will take on the itineraries that appeal to those who travel for the places, not the ship -- and will require vaccinations to ensure the ability to complete itineraries and fulfill obligations required to stop in certain ports/countries.

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5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

When discussing “vaccine hesitancy” among “health care workers” it is important to consider who those workers are.  There is a great difference between the levels of expertise involved — an MD is trained and has fairly broad understanding while a cleaner in a nursing home is unlikely to have as deep an understanding of what is involved —- yet they are all “health care workers”.

 

 

 

Well yes.  But the reports were specifically about nurses.

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15 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Other than private islands which are exclusively cruise passengers how do you suggest to keep spring breakers off other islands?

 

As soon as you are back on land it's much harder to restrict the vaccination status of people you might encounter.

 

Not all "private islands" are in fact islands. But they all have resident populations.

 

Most countries now required a negative test for entry. Typically the test has to have been performed within 72 hour of entry. I suspect that this requirement would not change just for cruise ships unless all pax had vaccinations.

 

Do you expect cruise lines would chose to install sufficient equipment and personnel to test 3,000 people before calling at a port? I suspect they would be much more likely to simply require vaccinations.

 

15 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Maybe there is a future in which a number of the "mega-sized" cruise ships stay in the Caribbean year round, do not require vaccinations and mainly stop at private islands or "accommodating" other ports like Mexico.

 

Meanwhile perhaps medium to smaller ships will take on the itineraries that appeal to those who travel for the places, not the ship -- and will require vaccinations to ensure the ability to complete itineraries and fulfill obligations required to stop in certain ports/countries.

 

It is a sign of how insular we have become that you believe the majority of the population is anti vaccination or would chose to cruise on a ship that did not require vaccinations.

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4 hours ago, iancal said:

It would not surprise me in the least if proof of covid vaccination is required to board a cruise ship, an international flight, or indeed perhaps at some AI's and resorts.

 


If that happens it happens.  But it will have no bearing on my life decisions.  Cruising is the tail, not the dog.

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3 hours ago, iancal said:

It is a moot point for us. 

 

We will get the covid vaccination.  Just as have the flu shot each year, Hep shots, tetanus, yellow fever, etc.

 

We really do not care if others refuse the vaccine.  It will be their choice however this choice may limit their ability to travel internationally for some period of time.  It is just one of the pros and cons when making the decision.  In many countries employers will have the right to require employees in certain occupations to be covid vaccinated.


It is so good of you and others to say this over and over again, as if people who are not planning on getting the vaccine don't already know this.  

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3 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

Strawman arguments like what you have written here are yet another reason it just keeps going.  Using the search feature for "devil" and "envelope" there are no instances of these words in this thread.   

 

If you want to argue, make sure you actually argue against the words that are said.

 

 

Straw men are easier to knock down.

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30 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I think many folks would be happy with such an arrangement where some cruiselines/ships are vax-mandatory vs others are vax-optional.  Indeed, this kind of free market approach, might end all arguments from the vax-optional crowd.
 

In this scenario do the crew members get a choice as to whether they sail on a vax-mandatory or vax-optional ship?  How do you envision that even being managed?  Or do they have no say?

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Just now, capriccio said:

In this scenario do the crew members get a choice as to whether they sail on a vax-mandatory or vax-optional ship?  How do you envision that even being managed?  Or do they have no say?

I don't see why choice shouldn't extend to them as well, just like anybody else chooses what employer they want to work for.

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4 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I don't see why choice shouldn't extend to them as well, just like anybody else chooses what employer they want to work for.

 

Don't employers have a duty to provide a safe workplace?

 

Your choice is not a real choice if one needs employment.

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It will very likely be mandatory based on what is going on in Israel.  Get ready for a new world of digital identity!

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-vaccination-passports-7a8ce11ce37c309d97969ab71df26e62

 

Inside Israel, green passports or badges obtained through an app is the coin of the realm. The country recently reached agreements with Greece and Cyprus to recognize each other’s green badges, and more such tourism-boosting accords are expected.

Anyone unwilling or unable to get the jabs that confer immunity will be “left behind,” said Health Minister Yuli Edelstein.

“It’s really the only way forward at the moment,” Geffen said in an interview with The Associated Press.

 

Those that have recovered from COVID can also get the passport.

Only people displaying a “green passport” that proved they had been vaccinated or had recovered from COVID-19 could get in.

Edited by SelectSys
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8 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Don't employers have a duty to provide a safe workplace?

 

Your choice is not a real choice if one needs employment.

Tell that to soldiers, miners, construction workers and various other dangerous jobs.  Nobody is being forced to work on a cruiseship.

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