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What's the latest on "mock/ testing" cruises?


Cruiseboy06
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5 minutes ago, asalligo said:

And there is the root of the problem. The CDC ignoring the important stuff and focusing on crap that does not matter. My cruising is much more important that general public health. 

😳😳....I wouldnt personally go that far but it is important to me nonetheless

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22 hours ago, quattrohead said:

So how about running a few test cruises for locals to each port, your address determines eligibility. Tampa and Port Canaveral you can park close enough to walk to the terminal, not sure about others. Covid test a week before and on the day at the terminal, ship half full with reasonable restrictions. Covid test end of cruise, off you go.

 

Good ideas.  San Diego just lost Carnival slips to San Pedro,  so we could be available on short notice on the west coast for a dress rehearsal.

 

Include E-Muster and streamlined embarkation processes too.   Passengers who refuse to own smartphones could meet up in the Friends of Bill W meeting room when that is not being used and enjoy the traditional on deck spooning for muster station 'preparedness'.

 

We haven't seen the ideas come up yet for the culinary innovations which I think will emerge from all this as a plus for cruiseline passengers.

 

Food is the area where they will be saving money via less quantity ,  and food is the area where they can achieve the most significant gains with the least amount of investment.  They just may not realize this and yes they will need to overhaul menus.   No more liver and onions.

 

You can offset the crowded MDR by offering guest 'room service gourmet meals for 2" on  alternating  nights which are synchronized with theatre shows.  Again smartphones could be used to take menu orders or schedule both these types of dinners and theatre reservations too.  Vibrators could be issued to guest who do not own smartphones.

 

We are entering the age of smart transportation,  cruiselines will need to keep up or follow the trends.

 

I say keep coming up with ideas,  maybe CDC employees truly are not cruisers and they need our input for ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by JRG
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7 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Home Depot is non-essential. WalMart is non-essential. They are both as essential as Grandma Ida's 4-seat diner. The difference is money in someone's hands. To make things equal to the small guys, when this is over, lets say July 1, 2021, ALL businesses that were permitted to be open April 1, 2020 to July 1, 2021, will be completely closed from July 1, 2021 to Jan 1, 2023. That would allow all of these "non-essential" businesses time to rebuild. No WalMart, no Home Depot, no Amazon, no Tesla, no Apple, etc. 

 

The simple fact is if ONE business can be open, ANY business can be open. Too many people have lost everything they have and the worst has not come yet. Once the mortgage lien holders can foreclose, they will. All of these people not only lost their businesses, livelihood, savings, and retirement, they are soon to have their homes taken as well. And please don't get me started on the squatters that are not paying rent. I have several friends that will lose property and/or go to jail because renters don't have to pay rent. In many cases they even know they don't have to leave for another 2-4 years because of the eviction backlog.

You have a unique economic theory - shut everything down (landlords excluded) because of some need to get even.  And Ida will certainly be better off as she stares at her empty restaurant because there are no customers left.  

 

Here they now talk about activities being limited because of exposure analysis.  Perhaps a better question is why is it OK to eat under a tent but not inside Ida's building?  I personally would like an answer to that.  

 

I also have concerns about what is going to happen to landlords and to tenants with all the rents in arrears.  Does anyone have any knowledge (other than conspiracy theories) about that?  

 

 

 

 

 

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I definitely have facts. A friend owns 5 rental properties. He has collected no rent since April 2020. He has had to continue maintaining the properties, keeping power, gas, and water on for the tenants because it is required even though they don't pay the bills. They now have squatter rights and have no need or reason to pay any rent until they are evicted. The eviction backlog for the courts will be about 18 months. After that, the backlog to have the Sheriff serve the eviction in going to be another several months. To know the facts and counting, they will be living in his property 100% cost free for nearly 3 years. He is responsible for maintaining the property and paying utilities. 

 

So please stop with your idea that Business A is more important than Business B. The only reason they are is because of money (bribes) disguised as lobbying.

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3 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I definitely have facts. A friend owns 5 rental properties. He has collected no rent since April 2020. He has had to continue maintaining the properties, keeping power, gas, and water on for the tenants because it is required even though they don't pay the bills. They now have squatter rights and have no need or reason to pay any rent until they are evicted. The eviction backlog for the courts will be about 18 months. After that, the backlog to have the Sheriff serve the eviction in going to be another several months. To know the facts and counting, they will be living in his property 100% cost free for nearly 3 years. He is responsible for maintaining the property and paying utilities. 

 

So please stop with your idea that Business A is more important than Business B. The only reason they are is because of money (bribes) disguised as lobbying.

 

Oh please.  I never said any business was more important.  But of course, even you have to admit some activities are clearly essential.   Current activities are allowed because someone has deemed they present an acceptable risk.  And a whole bunch of those are far from big business.  I think the debate should be about the how to get everyone open instead of a rant about big business.    

 

Again, if you actually read what I said, I too have concerns about the rent relief situation.   Instead of ranting, what solution do you suggest?  

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40 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I definitely have facts. A friend owns 5 rental properties. He has collected no rent since April 2020. He has had to continue maintaining the properties, keeping power, gas, and water on for the tenants because it is required even though they don't pay the bills. They now have squatter rights and have no need or reason to pay any rent until they are evicted. The eviction backlog for the courts will be about 18 months. After that, the backlog to have the Sheriff serve the eviction in going to be another several months. To know the facts and counting, they will be living in his property 100% cost free for nearly 3 years. He is responsible for maintaining the property and paying utilities. 

I know two people in the same position. In his case his renters are still working too, but just started not paying when the no eviction order came down. He has been stuck maintaining the house and paying his mortgage with little chance of being able to get any of that money back. Evictions in Florida also take six months if the renter resists. 

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1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Perhaps a better question is why is it OK to eat under a tent but not inside Ida's building?  I personally would like an answer to that.  

 

This has puzzled me.  Sometimes I think it is a face savings measure for politicians who can't appear to be wrong or be influenced by special interests - schools, big business, etc

 

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

I also have concerns about what is going to happen to landlords and to tenants with all the rents in arrears.  Does anyone have any knowledge (other than conspiracy theories) about that?  

 

Not for housing but I saw some stuff relating to utility bills.  Customer turn offs are for non-payment have been suspended and the receivables are skyrocketing.  I assume most are legit, but you never know how people are going to act.  The "good news," unlike small landlords,  are that these companies have deep pockets and can simply charge other customers for bad debts incurred due to government policy mandates.

 

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-moves-to-address-extraordinarily-frightening-energy-debt-amid/595054/

 

"Residential arrearages for Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas & Electric and Southern California Gas shot up by more than $650 million between February 2020 and the end of the year, surpassing $1 billion in December. Customers enrolled in low-income programs accounted for $324 million of that increase."

 

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

I think the debate should be about the how to get everyone open instead of a rant about big business.

 

I agree.  I also agree that big business has faired way better than small business in the COVID area.  Big business has access to the lobbyists and financing that small business doesn't have.  

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On 2/18/2021 at 10:18 AM, asalligo said:

And there is the root of the problem. The CDC ignoring the important stuff and focusing on crap that does not matter. My cruising is much more important that general public health. 

 

....but they have plenty of time to regulate all other forms of travel and have relaxed restrictions.  To the point, they have basically backed off all regulations on air travel which has the largest volume and most opportunity for spread.

 

If it is safe to fly, even internationally, it is safe to cruise.

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40 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

....but they have plenty of time to regulate all other forms of travel and have relaxed restrictions.  To the point, they have basically backed off all regulations on air travel which has the largest volume and most opportunity for spread.

 

If it is safe to fly, even internationally, it is safe to cruise.

You've apparently missed the fact that the CDC has in the past month implemented a requirement that all international air travelers to the US, including US citizens, have proof of a negative COVID test taken within 3 days of their travel to the US, or proof of recovery from COVID-19.

Just how is that backing off all regulations or relaxing restrictions on air travel? It's just the opposite.

 

Further the CDC requires masks on planes, buses, trains and all forms of public transportation. 

 

Last I checked no one is on an an airplane for days at a time either. Compare that to cruising. 

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1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

You've apparently missed the fact that the CDC has in the past month implemented a requirement that all international air travelers to the US, including US citizens, have proof of a negative COVID test taken within 3 days of their travel to the US, or proof of recovery from COVID-19.

Just how is that backing off all regulations or relaxing restrictions on air travel? It's just the opposite.

 

Further the CDC requires masks on planes, buses, trains and all forms of public transportation. 

 

Last I checked no one is on an an airplane for days at a time either. Compare that to cruising. 

Yes....they added testing.  Point being they have not restricted travel because the negative test is a stop gap measure at best.  I am sure cruise lines would be thrilled with masks and a negative test to get back underway.

 

Also, I do not believe cruise travel is inherently different than other forms of travel.  It simply provides a captive audience so you can see the end result.  All those other travelers on planes and trains are spreading just as easily, it just disperses into the vast unknown of society.

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6 hours ago, ray98 said:

Yes....they added testing.  Point being they have not restricted travel because the negative test is a stop gap measure at best.  I am sure cruise lines would be thrilled with masks and a negative test to get back underway.

 

Also, I do not believe cruise travel is inherently different than other forms of travel.  It simply provides a captive audience so you can see the end result.  All those other travelers on planes and trains are spreading just as easily, it just disperses into the vast unknown of society.

Air travel is a necessity for some...for business, to obtain medical treatment not available near home, to attend a family funeral. A cruise vacation is a necessity for no one.

 

You stated that the CDC backed off and relaxed restrictions and regulations on air travel when in fact they've done just the opposite in recent weeks. Try getting your facts straight .

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12 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Air travel is a necessity for some...for business, to obtain medical treatment not available near home, to attend a family funeral. A cruise vacation is a necessity for no one.

 

You stated that the CDC backed off and relaxed restrictions and regulations on air travel when in fact they've done just the opposite in recent weeks. Try getting your facts straight .

 

What???  They were the driving force behind several travel bans since this began.  Of course they banned cruise travel.  Air travel started with a ban from China and was followed by an additional 26 European countries.  They followed by restricting land travel to Mexico and Canada for non-essential reasons.

 

They backed off that hard line stance on all those other forms to eventually allow travel to return to near normal.  Only recently did they enact the negative test and mask requirement after months of nothing.  So....they certainly relaxed their views on air travel.

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30 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

What???  They were the driving force behind several travel bans since this began.  Of course they banned cruise travel.  Air travel started with a ban from China and was followed by an additional 26 European countries.  They followed by restricting land travel to Mexico and Canada for non-essential reasons.

 

They backed off that hard line stance on all those other forms to eventually allow travel to return to near normal.  Only recently did they enact the negative test and mask requirement after months of nothing.  So....they certainly relaxed their views on air travel.

The early 2020 international air travel bans from certain countries never applied to US citizens or green card holders, who were always free to return to the US from wherever they were. And there was never a domestic air travel ban in the US. 

 

The CDC has also loosened, at least in theory, the cruise ban. It expired on October 31, 2020 and was replaced by the Conditional Sail Order. If a cruise line can comply with the terms of that order they can get permission to sail.

 

 

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On 2/18/2021 at 10:13 AM, SelectSys said:

 

I agree.  I also agree that big business has faired way better than small business in the COVID area.  Big business has access to the lobbyists and financing that small business doesn't have.  

 

Influence of lobbyist/special interests should always be of concern.  But I question that Home Depot and Lowes, who were specifically mentioned, are open because of their lobbying.  Fact is all hardware stores are open, from Home Depot to Harry's corner Hardware.    Folks seem to love to hate big business but those big businesses provide a lot of big employment.   The Home of Depot and Lowes employ 600,000 between the two of them.   

 

I continue to wonder why inside dining with restricted occupancy is not allowed.   

 

I just hope that as more starts to reopen, folks can make a comeback.  

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I think some do not understand that the CDC represents one country (out of nearly 300).  That being said, when folks talk about the idea of just going to Europe to cruise I think they may not be well versed on what is happening in Europe.  Bottom line is that it is nearly impossible for Americans to fly anywhere in Europe without at least a lengthy forced quarantine...and in many cases travel to Europe is entirely prohibited.  The situation is only slightly better for Canadians.  

 

I had hoped that Europe would begin opening up to folks that can prove being vaccinated, but so far, that does not seem to be in  the near future.  While we had long believed that cruising would be about the last tourist activity to reopen we had been relatively optimistic that we would be able to fly to a country in Europe, rent/lease a car, and go about one of our extended European driving trips.  But lately we are seeing more (not less) problems in Europe with continuing and even more restrictions.   As to Asia, that part of the world is just about completely closed to North Americans although there is some recent indications that Thailand may open up to tourists that have been vaccinated.

 

As to the resumption of cruising in the Caribbean, folks keep forgetting that not only does the CDC need to green light cruises (if they involve any US Port) but so do each and every port on an itinerary.  There does not seem to be any rush, on the part of Caribbean islands, to welcome cruise ships.  Some islands, such as Aruba, have already reopened to tourism but this usually involves testing and quarantines which would not work for cruisers.

 

My own thoughts are that perhaps there will be some resumption of short cruises from Florida ports that would only involve so-called "private island" ports.  This kind of cruise would only need the approval of the CDC and the Bahamas.  On the other hand, for those of us who enjoy long cruises to more exotic destinations it is difficult to see the light at the end of the storm.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

My own thoughts are that perhaps there will be some resumption of short cruises from Florida ports that would only involve so-called "private island" ports.  This kind of cruise would only need the approval of the CDC and the Bahamas.  On the other hand, for those of us who enjoy long cruises to more exotic destinations it is difficult to see the light at the end of the storm.

I think you have to add the possibility of Mexico and Bermuda as early cruise destinations, as both those countries have recently even floated the idea of being used as a homeport to circumvent CDC rules. If they're considering homeporting I would imagine they would also be open to being a cruise destination.

Here's something from Mexico, and I saw something similar recently stated by Bermuda's tourism minister:

https://cruiseradio.net/mexico-invites-cruise-lines-to-sail-from-cozumel/

Come to think of it, you're a winter resident of Mexico so you know that Mexico is open to tourists. Bermuda is too.

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3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I think you have to add the possibility of Mexico and Bermuda as early cruise destinations, as both those countries have recently even floated the idea of being used as a homeport to circumvent CDC rules. If they're considering homeporting I would imagine they would also be open to being a cruise destination.

Here's something from Mexico, and I saw something similar recently stated by Bermuda's tourism minister:

https://cruiseradio.net/mexico-invites-cruise-lines-to-sail-from-cozumel/

Come to think of it, you're a winter resident of Mexico so you know that Mexico is open to tourists. Bermuda is too.

I do agree that Mexico might be an option since this is about the only country that does not currently have any testing or vaccine requirement (I am living in Puerto Vallarta as I write this).   As to Bermuda I do not think it will happen!  They have relatively tough COVID restriction rules that require a recent PCR test and I believe they have also adopted a special tracking wristband.  Also keep in mind that Bermuda has relatively limited facilities to be a major embarkation port.   Getting back to Mexico here in Puerto Vallarta we could handle a few ships for embarkation/disembarkation.  But as things stand now a ship embarking from Mexico would not be able to go anywhere but Mexico because of the lack of approved ports.  

 

We do currently have the Grand Princess anchored just outside our cruise port and maybe I could convince the Captain to take DW and me for a private cruise :).  Seeing that ship (we have cruised on her a few times) just sitting out in the Bay really makes both DW and I realize how much we miss being on ships.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I do agree that Mexico might be an option since this is about the only country that does not currently have any testing or vaccine requirement (I am living in Puerto Vallarta as I write this).   As to Bermuda I do not think it will happen!  They have relatively tough COVID restriction rules that require a recent PCR test and I believe they have also adopted a special tracking wristband.  Also keep in mind that Bermuda has relatively limited facilities to be a major embarkation port.   Getting back to Mexico here in Puerto Vallarta we could handle a few ships for embarkation/disembarkation.  But as things stand now a ship embarking from Mexico would not be able to go anywhere but Mexico because of the lack of approved ports.  

 

We do currently have the Grand Princess anchored just outside our cruise port and maybe I could convince the Captain to take DW and me for a private cruise :).  Seeing that ship (we have cruised on her a few times) just sitting out in the Bay really makes both DW and I realize how much we miss being on ships.

 

Hank

While Bermuda does have stringent testing requirements, I assume they're interested in the resumption of cruising, and in particular serving as a homeport because their tourism minister said they are. 

 

Bermuda would be a workable embarkation port for small ships such as those of Oceania and Azamara. 

 

Mexico has mentioned Cozumel as a possible embarkation port.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

While Bermuda does have stringent testing requirements, I assume they're interested in the resumption of cruising, and in particular serving as a homeport because their tourism minister said they are. 

 

Bermuda would be a workable embarkation port for small ships such as those of Oceania and Azamara. 

 

Mexico has mentioned Cozumel as a possible embarkation port.

 

 

That makes sense and I can see Cozumel as an embarkation port.  Ships could probably get permission to dock at Jamaica and also use Costa Maya.  Doubtful that Grand Cayman would open up to ships.  

 

As to Bermuda I would be surprised if they open up.  But you might want to consider where a ship could go from Bermuda besides a Mexican port or perhaps Jamaica.  Oceania and Azamara generally offer interesting itineraries (we have a terrific O cruise booked for Dec 2021 but not optimistic) and at the moment there are few "interesting" ports available to ships.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

That makes sense and I can see Cozumel as an embarkation port.  Ships could probably get permission to dock at Jamaica and also use Costa Maya.  Doubtful that Grand Cayman would open up to ships.  

 

As to Bermuda I would be surprised if they open up.  But you might want to consider where a ship could go from Bermuda besides a Mexican port or perhaps Jamaica.  Oceania and Azamara generally offer interesting itineraries (we have a terrific O cruise booked for Dec 2021 but not optimistic) and at the moment there are few "interesting" ports available to ships.

 

Hank

Oceania could start its 180 day ATW cruise, or some abridged version of it, from Bermuda instead of Miami

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2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Oceania could start its 180 day ATW cruise, or some abridged version of it, from Bermuda instead of Miami

Surely you jest.  They would cruise around the world without a port in which to stop.  Where on earth do you thing they can go?

 

Hank

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16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Surely you jest.  They would cruise around the world without a port in which to stop.  Where on earth do you thing they can go?

 

Hank

I'm optimistic that by year-end 2021 there will be ports accepting cruises. Enough to do an ATW? That's probably just  a pipe dream...but I think you'll see enough Caribbean ports open to have some type of cruising in the region...and they could start and end in Bermuda if the US continues have rules making it next to impossible to cruise.

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Well it has been interesting reading all the opinions on when and how cruising can start up.  And it appears that the test cruises have yet to be acted upon as of now.  But then right now I don't see it happening for a while out of a US port.  

 

I like most of you am frustrated that I can not go cruising but right now it is still to early to cruise. We are getting there with each passing day. And yes there are cruises in different parts of the world but they are limited and many in North America don't have access to them.  

 

One thing is we only have 10 percent of the population above 18 with 2 shots.  But we do have 1.5 million doses going into arms each day.  But that is first or second dose. At the current rate it will be early August before every one that wants one has them both.  I read a study that suggests 70 percent of those Americans above 18 are willing to get a vaccine.  

 

Now look at ports of call.  Just looking at the Caribbean things arent' peachy at all.  Some of the island aren't in bad shape at the moment Now only Anguilla is covid free but it is a luxury cruise port.  All others have some covid still active.  Ie St Kitts has only 2 active cases, Caymans have 23, Bermuda has 10, the Bahamas have 1043, and the Dominican Republic has 46,395.   Then mainland ports aren't any better with honduras with 97,616 active ,  Costa Rica with 26,607 and panana with 9,629.

 

Then there is vaccines in the area.  Data isnt as easy to get since a number of nation islands have a mother country.  Some I have dug out have yet to see a single dose of vaccine.  Bahamas are expecting some doses late march.  Others think early march... maybe.   

 

Caymans have 31 percent of their people vaccinated  Bermuda with 27 and barbados with 7.  And that number is not real when you are comparing doses injected per 100 people.  And these nations simply run out totally and wait days for another shipment.  

 

So , IMHO there is no where to go at the moment and we have no state ready to go. Herd immunity is the real answer but it has to be regionally wide.  And the medical community will argue what makes up herd immunity.  We are not to the point where it matters what the CDC says or anyone in the cruise industry.  That day has yet to come.

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