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Crystal to require vaccinations


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31 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Neither do I, other than MAYBE the timing of the request for emergency use authorization coming immediately after the election.  Otherwise, I think everything possible was done to speed up the production of the vaccine, not to slow it down.  I do think that the speed of progress in its development was intentionally not reported to the American people.  

Don't think so but we can agree to disagree.

 

I think in the coming years historians and science experts will look at how we dealt with this highlighting things we did right and things we did wrong or could have done better.  Hopefully we wil all be around to see the results.  This is very important IMHO and equally important is as soon as we get this under control later this year efforts (including investments) begin for the next pandemic because there will be another and another and another.

We have had pandemics in our lifetime but the difference on this one was more of a perfect storm. 

 

Keith

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4 minutes ago, BEAV said:

 

IMO you both make valid points. A couple months ago at the height of the Fall outbreak, I remember seeing a high-level medical professional in charge of contact tracing in the Dakotas lamenting the fact that the numbers were just too overwhelming (even in a low populated state) to perform contact tracing adequately enough to even make a dent on containment. I remember feeling heartbreak for her as she was at her whits end trying to make a difference. 

 

With that said, I’ve been residing in Hawaii (Oahu) the past 4 weeks and am *thrilled* at their contact tracing system. Their restaurants are required by the state to keep name, address and contact info on file for 14 days. I rented a car for one day, and even Avis was required to ask for the Hawaii safe travel form I had to complete before prior to arrival. Granted their isolation from the mainland, and requiring a negative Covid test to get here works in their favor, but their commitment to fighting/winning this battle is nothing shy of impressive. 

Brian, this is terrific.

 

I am glad they are doing the contact tracing and the safe travel form. 

 

I knew they were requiring the COVID test as a requirement otherwise a quarantine was required which I thought was excellent.

 

Yes, very impressive.  Best to you.

 

Keith

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16 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

 

Agreed.  Will just add that, in its COVID FAQs, Crystal has stated it's accepting vaccines approved by the FDA or EMA.

And don't forget that, contrary to the views of a few individual countries, the EMA has approved the Astra Zeneca vaccine for use in all age groups. As I have stated in another thread, a report today from Public Health Scotland, a body independent of government, has stated that the first dose of this vaccine has reduced hospitalisations by 94% after four weeks. As this vaccine has yet to be rolled out to younger healthy adults, this really puts to bed the idea that it should not be used for the over 60s.

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5 hours ago, BEAV said:

With that said, I’ve been residing in Hawaii (Oahu) the past 4 weeks and am *thrilled* at their contact tracing system. Their restaurants are required by the state to keep name, address and contact info on file for 14 days. I rented a car for one day, and even Avis was required to ask for the Hawaii safe travel form I had to complete before prior to arrival. Granted their isolation from the mainland, and requiring a negative Covid test to get here works in their favor, but their commitment to fighting/winning this battle is nothing shy of impressive. 


Brian,

 

enjoy your time in Oahu.  The contact tracing system sounds impressive.

 

Nancy

 

 

Edited by nancygp
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I really appreciate the steps Crystal is taking to protect passenger health. I'm having my second Pfizer shot tomorrow. Believe that a Covid test should be conducted right before boarding the ship since a test three days prior would only indicate if you are positive or negative at the time of the test and not positive or negative at the time of boarding. I expect the improvement in testing  methodology will lead to some changes. Hopefully we can resume safe cruising in the very near future.

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33 minutes ago, Orator said:

Believe that a Covid test should be conducted right before boarding the ship since a test three days prior would only indicate if you are positive or negative at the time of the test and not positive or negative at the time of boarding.

I agree.  Plus, I would add if they really want to document absence of Covid amongst the boarding passengers, they need to do another test around 3 days after boarding.  If people are exposed on the way to the ship, it still would probably not show up on a test at the time of boarding.

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4 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

I agree.  Plus, I would add if they really want to document absence of Covid amongst the boarding passengers, they need to do another test around 3 days after boarding.  If people are exposed on the way to the ship, it still would probably not show up on a test at the time of boarding.

I would agree. My next scheduled cruise is the October Amazon cruise on Serenity and passengers should be tested throughout the cruise so that those who test positive can be retested or isolated.

Edited by Orator
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I was just thinking I should have added a PS that another test would also be needed 3 days after each shore excursion.  Unless they test daily (which might be an option in the future,  but hopefully unnecessary by then), there is no perfect testing protocol.  The question will be where to draw the line to catch most/enough to keep everyone safe without wasting time and resources.

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On 2/21/2021 at 9:57 PM, BEAV said:

 

With that said, I’ve been residing in Hawaii (Oahu) the past 4 weeks and am *thrilled* at their contact tracing system. Their restaurants are required by the state to keep name, address and contact info on file for 14 days. I rented a car for one day, and even Avis was required to ask for the Hawaii safe travel form I had to complete before prior to arrival. Granted their isolation from the mainland, and requiring a negative Covid test to get here works in their favor, but their commitment to fighting/winning this battle is nothing shy of impressive. 

And that is why we haven't dined out for six months.  

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The USA Food & Drug Administration just gave the OK for the Johnson and Johnson Vaccine for Emergency Use and the Independent Committee will meet this Friday so it should be approved on Friday for use in the USA.

 

This is a single dose vaccine.

 

Keith

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2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

This is just an honest question. If all onboard are vaccinated, what is the purpose of all these tests?

 

Being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from getting or spreading COVID -- the strongest piece of protection is against severe illness and hospitalization.  Mild and moderate illness still happens to some degree, which varies by strain of the virus and which vaccine you received, among other factors.  

 

So long story short, the vaccine doesn't solely prevent a COVID outbreak from spreading onboard (or anywhere else in life), that's why we will also need to continue other containment measures until we can drive infection rates down.  Vaccines help, but they can't do it alone.

 

Vince

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I have heard of some people who three weeks after having the vaccine  got an antibody test and it was negative!!!  I’m really not sure how this is all going to work out and even with a vaccine if people are not having antibodies that’s going to change everything and would make a vaccination passport useless. 

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Having had a serious case of the virus, we have "natural immunity" for up to 8-9 months and maybe longer. An immunity or titer type test would actually prove that we are as good as, or maybe even in better shape than vaccinated. But no one has figured that out yet or concocted an "immunity card". So we have to stay off the ships. An antibody test might be a safer way to measure passengers' immunity than fact they had the shots. Especially if the shots don't necessarily protect. We still wear masks but just so we don't get yelled at.

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13 minutes ago, suzeluvscruz said:

Having had a serious case of the virus, we have "natural immunity" for up to 8-9 months and maybe longer. An immunity or titer type test would actually prove that we are as good as, or maybe even in better shape than vaccinated. But no one has figured that out yet or concocted an "immunity card".

I would say probably longer, but it is just too soon to support that with data.  Hopefully an antibody test will eventually be accepted as a substitute for a vaccine card.  Nothing seems to happen fast with this pandemic except for the spread of the virus.

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15 minutes ago, suzeluvscruz said:

Having had a serious case of the virus, we have "natural immunity" for up to 8-9 months and maybe longer. An immunity or titer type test would actually prove that we are as good as, or maybe even in better shape than vaccinated. But no one has figured that out yet or concocted an "immunity card". So we have to stay off the ships. An antibody test might be a safer way to measure passengers' immunity than fact they had the shots. Especially if the shots don't necessarily protect. We still wear masks but just so we don't get yelled at.

Actually, we (the scientific community) do not know how to determine, by a test, how someone is sufficiently immune to this virus.  Antibody titer is something we CAN measure, but we still don't know if that's really reflective of the effective immunity, and if so, how do we translate the actual titer to something more understandable, like % efficacy.  We are also still finding out how effective the acquired immunity from this virus is, how that is manifested (antibodies, memory B cells, T cells, etc.), and how long does it really last.  And with the new mutants popping up and spreading around the globe, naturally acquired immunity to one strain may not provide sufficient protection to another.  We are sill in the dark about this.

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18 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

I would say probably longer, but it is just too soon to support that with data.  Hopefully an antibody test will eventually be accepted as a substitute for a vaccine card.  Nothing seems to happen fast with this pandemic except for the spread of the virus.

I hope it’s longer! At first they said 3 months, then later they said 6, now it’s 8-9. These measurements are from people who were infected early on so that’s as far back as data go. In the meantime we are advised against getting the vaccine while our antibodies are high. Not all antibody tests are accurate, but then neither are all the virus tests. So much is still unknown so it’s a giant guessing game. 

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3 hours ago, Tudorcruisers said:

I have heard of some people who three weeks after having the vaccine  got an antibody test and it was negative!!!  I’m really not sure how this is all going to work out and even with a vaccine if people are not having antibodies that’s going to change everything and would make a vaccination passport useless. 

 

Immunity depends not solely on anti-bodies but also on T-cells -  so it is possible someone  may have immunity conferred by t-cells with low anti-body levels.  Or maybe there is a medical condition involved with their immune system - further work on that would need to be done. 

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Posted (edited)

No unloading on anyone, just data from VAERS (the system that tracks such things).

 

From the CDC's site: (Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC)

 

Over 76 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 1, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,381 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

 

Even if you didn't believe the CDC was properly qualifying the deaths and ALL of those deaths were because of the vaccine -- which would be physically IMPOSSIBLE -- that's a rate of 0.0018%.  Compare that with the roughly 30% of people that have long term symptoms and roughly 2% case-fatality rate from the actual virus in the US, and it blows my mind that anyone would fear the vaccine more than the virus!

 

We're all free to feel however we like about the vaccines, but I'm _FINE_ with cruise lines requiring them considering the data we now have...  No one is going to die from missing a luxury cruise, no matter how bad our withdrawal symptoms are right now.

 

Vince

Edited by BWIVince
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Vince, thank you for sharing the CDC information and for your additional comments which IMHO are spot-on.  

 

While I realize a few people won't be able to cruise because of the vaccination requirement I am so glad this requirement is in place for the safety of all who will be sailing and to minimize issues with visiting places on the itinerary.  I do hope Crystal is able to even come up with solutions for the crew members who are not vaccinated which might be possible if not right away then later on depending on when Crystal sails again.  

 

I am glad the CDC is tracking deaths to verify if any are related to the vaccine.  This is important not only to validate the test trials but to build confidence among those who are concerned about getting it.  Likewise I am glad those getting the vaccine wait for 15 minutes just to ensure there are no issues and as Rob mentioned early on I hope as many people as possible are providing the feedback from their vaccines.  We did this for the first vaccine and are doing it now having gotten our second one a week ago today. Level of effort is about 30 seconds to do this each day and I am sure the information is very worthwhile for additional analysis.

 

For those who had COVID-19 as one posted they need to determine with consultation from their doctor when to get it.  I have friends who got COVID-19 and they have just gotten the vaccine after consultation with their physician.

 

I just lost a former work colleague and friend to this dreadful virus.  He passed in January.  So sad and just a couple of weeks after getting COVID-19 the vaccines rolled out.  

 

I do hope that as many people as possible will get the vaccine while realizing some cannot due to allergies or some other health issues.  The more who get the vaccine not only in our country but around the world will hopefully allow us to win the war against COVID-19 or at least minimize its spread.

 

Keith

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In addition to cruising, we sometimes also participate in small group organized land tours. Our 2020 planned tour was canceled and we rescheduled for 2022. Although health protocols will likely evolve over the next year (or later), we received the attached "Waiver of Liability for Covid-19" form from Tauck as part of the updated set of documents for our rescheduled tour. I've attached it as an "information only" read for those who may be interested how Tauck is currently distancing itself from possible litigation.

 

This may (or may not) be a template or indication of how cruise lines may approach the issue. Whether this document would eventually hold up in court, if challenged, is a debate for the attorneys.

 

Rob

Waiver of Liability.pdf

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