Mandatory vaccination

[SeaHunt]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:27 AM, winterbliss said:

Silent hypoxia (and you can easily do a little research on this) has been common in people who have had this virus, in particular those who have gotten severely ill. Your oxygen levels can be dropping and for some reason, our body does not let us know in the way that it normally would. By the time you do become short of breath and end up going to the ER, the lung damage can already be well on its way. 

 

I saw a TV news clip with a Texas Trauma Surgeon who agrees with you - in another article she also said that she had people coming to the ER for other reasons - falls, auto accidents, etc. - who had no idea that their lungs were in such bad shape after Covid (even asymptomatic Covid):

 

"Texas trauma surgeon Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall says it’s a rarity that any of her COVID-19 patients X-rays come back without dense scarring.

 

In one of her Twitter posts, she says “post-covid lungs look worse than any type of terrible smokers lung we’ve ever seen.”

 

“Everyone’s just so worried about the mortality thing and that’s terrible and it’s awful. But man, and all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is, it’s going to be a problem,” Dr. Bankhead-Kendall said.

 

Like many, she’s treated thousands of patients since March.

 

Of them, she tells CBS 11 News those who have had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time. And those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70 to 80% of the time.

 

“There are still people who say ‘I’m fine I don’t have any issues’ and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray,” she said".

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/01/13/texas-trauma-surgeon-says-post-covid-lungs-look-worse-than-any-type-of-terrible-smokers-lung-weve-ever-seen/

[HMR74]

I saw a TV news clip with a Texas Trauma Surgeon who agrees with you - in another article she also said that she had people coming to the ER for other reasons - falls, auto accidents, etc. - who had no idea that their lungs were in such bad shape after Covid (even asymptomatic Covid):

 

Back early on, a year ago, we were told by the authorities that if we felt bad to wait a couple of days to see if you improved before going to hospital.

 

That was exactly the wrong thing to do because it in the first day or two you need the treatments to avoid that "cyclestorm" event with the respiratory system (lungs).

 

Which is why we need to continue to have strong immune systems and not be afraid to have HCQ and Ivermectin at home or with us on trips, so we do not have to wait in line for seeing a DR or going to ER. 24-48 hours  does make a difference.

 

 Ivermectin has been deemed to be a good enough safe enough  therapeutic to take prophylactic. HCQ is right behind Ivermectin on safety and efficacy.  A good vaccine will still be better as a long term answer.

 

Nothing is going to 100% resolve the problem--we have a risk we can mitigate and live with, and that means being able  to vacation and cruise, and be with family and friends. I cannot accept pure no you cannot do that answers.

[HMR74]

50 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

By the time you do become short of breath and end up going to the ER, the lung damage can already be well on its way. 

see point above on last years govt recommendations to wait a couple of days.

 

That was pretty bad advice.

 

Also, from what I understand the ventilators apparently can do more harm than good.

 

Before Cuomo asked for more ventilators, Medicare approved extra funds  for people being put on ventilators.

 

There are some serious group think failures on this-perhaps more common sense.

 

mama never told me to go play out on the highway.

Edited February 28, 2021 by HMR74

[winterbliss]

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

see point above on last years govt recommendations to wait a couple of days.

 

That was pretty bad advice.

 

Also, from what I understand the ventilators apparently can do more harm than good.

 

Before Cuomo asked for more ventilators, Medicare approved extra funds  for people being put on ventilators.

 

There are some serious group think failures on this-perhaps more common sense.

 

mama never told me to go play out on the highway.

Yes....I have been on here questioning many things and I'm sure there are those that think I'm a conspiracy theorist....which is pretty funny...but that doesn't bother me. I first learned about this phenomenon back in April. As we all know, this is now February...March tomorrow. People are still being told to come to the ER if they become short of breath, at which time lungs may be severely impacted. It makes no sense! Why has the public not been educated in this little potentially life saving device?

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by winterbliss

[HMR74]

7 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

Yes....I have been on here questioning many things and I'm sure there are those that think I'm a conspiracy theorist....which is pretty funny...but that doesn't bother me. I first learned about this phenomenon back in April. As we all know, this is now February...March tomorrow. People are still being told to come to the ER if they become short of breath, at which time lungs may be severely impacted. It makes no sense! Why has the public not been educated in this little potentially life saving device?

 

 

 

How about Vitamin D deficiency?  If you have the deficiency, the severity of covid is off the charts vs minimal if your Vitamin D is sufficient.It might not be perfect but its a big step in the right direction to protect yourself. And the goal of this all, in the end is to protect yourself as much as you can. Being able to cruise safely fits in there somewhere.

 

It is okay to question things (that's why in many health situations you get second opinions), just do not go off the reservation.

 

 

[IrieBajan54]

For those who don't want to get vaccinated, exotic cruises that include Israel would now be off your bucket list.

 

"The minister in charge of the world’s most successful coronavirus vaccination rollout says countries such as Australia should consider copying Israel’s new “green pass” regime, which bans people from entering a swathe of indoor venues if they have turned down the jab."

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/no-jab-no-entry-laws-the-obvious-way-to-promote-vaccines-israeli-minister-20210225-p575yz.html

[d9704011]

9 minutes ago, IrieBajan54 said:

For those who don't want to get vaccinated, exotic cruises that include Israel would now be off your bucket list.

 

"The minister in charge of the world’s most successful coronavirus vaccination rollout says countries such as Australia should consider copying Israel’s new “green pass” regime, which bans people from entering a swathe of indoor venues if they have turned down the jab."

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/no-jab-no-entry-laws-the-obvious-way-to-promote-vaccines-israeli-minister-20210225-p575yz.html

And Israel is definitely in the catbird seat to lecture Australia on COVID-19. Oops, wait.... Israel is still bumping along at above 4,000 new cases per day with a population of about 9M while Australia is struggling along with about 6 new cases per day with a population of about 25M.

[DCGuy64]

16 hours ago, HMR74 said:

How about Vitamin D deficiency?  If you have the deficiency, the severity of covid is off the charts vs minimal if your Vitamin D is sufficient.It might not be perfect but its a big step in the right direction to protect yourself. And the goal of this all, in the end is to protect yourself as much as you can. Being able to cruise safely fits in there somewhere.

 

It is okay to question things (that's why in many health situations you get second opinions), just do not go off the reservation.

 

 

Yep, I attribute my mild case of Covid-19 partially to my taking vitamin supplements including a multivitamin and a Vitamin D supplement, among others.

 

I appreciate the extra information posted above regarding chest X-rays of Covid patients resembling those of smokers. Question: since it's well known that former smokers who stop, can see significant improvement of their lungs afterward, is it reasonable to expect the same from Covid sufferers?

Doctors have for years encouraged people to stop smoking (for many reasons, obviously), one of them being that lungs can self repair.

https://www.healthline.com/health/quit-smoking/how-to-clean-lungs-after-quitting-smoking#natural-ways-to-clean-lungs

Now, I don't know enough about how Covid affects the lungs to know if the same would apply or not.

But I would always urge caution to those who attempt to argue that Covid necessarily causes long-term, irreparable harm to the body. It's too early to tell, in my opinion. For example, I recovered from Covid-19 in January and I still detect a faint smoke smell, as though there's a fire going in our fireplace. This type of phantom smell is extremely common in Covid patients and can last months, so I'm not worried.

 

[DCGuy64]

On 2/28/2021 at 8:33 AM, JamieLogical said:

 

I don't know. There is a big difference between wearing a mask and doing something that will permanently alter your body. I am obviously, by no means, an anti-vaxxer. I literally got mine the moment it was a available to me. I personally don't understand why anyone would not get one when the benefits so clearly outweigh the risks. But, I can see that it is invasive. I don't think there is anything wrong with any private sector company/organization requiring customers and staff to get vaccines. But it does seem legally dicey and morally wrong to not offer refunds to people who agreed to one set of terms and conditions and now are being required to physically alter their bodies permanently.

I always enjoy reading your posts, @JamieLogical, because they're always well thought out, intelligent and, dare I say it, logical. 😉

[HMR74]

23 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yep, I attribute my mild case of Covid-19 partially to my taking vitamin supplements including a multivitamin and a Vitamin D supplement, among others.

 

I appreciate the extra information posted above regarding chest X-rays of Covid patients resembling those of smokers. Question: since it's well known that former smokers who stop, can see significant improvement of their lungs afterward, is it reasonable to expect the same from Covid sufferers?

Doctors have for years encouraged people to stop smoking (for many reasons, obviously), one of them being that lungs can self repair.

https://www.healthline.com/health/quit-smoking/how-to-clean-lungs-after-quitting-smoking#natural-ways-to-clean-lungs

Now, I don't know enough about how Covid affects the lungs to know if the same would apply or not.

But I would always urge caution to those who attempt to argue that Covid necessarily causes long-term, irreparable harm to the body. It's too early to tell, in my opinion. For example, I recovered from Covid-19 in January and I still detect a faint smoke smell, as though there's a fire going in our fireplace. This type of phantom smell is extremely common in Covid patients and can last months, so I'm not worried.

 

the latest inexpensive vitamin is Lysine, which is supposed to work again most viruses.

Do your own diligence.

 

On Masks, there is plenty written that masks are more dangerous than the benefit, eg, you keep inhaling your CO2.

for example, this morning.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/02/enough_is_enough_time_to_finally_follow_the_science_on_masks.html

 

everybody should do what they feel is best for them. However, to evaluate it all you really need to look at evidence from all sides before making your decision.

 

That's the "do your own due diligence" part.  The main stream  media in general is not necessarily a reliable source.

 

 

 

 

[HMR74]

Royal Caribbean is doing a $1.5 billion stock offering today while its stock is up around $90. Good for them.

[JamieLogical]

8 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

the latest inexpensive vitamin is Lysine, which is supposed to work again most viruses.

Do your own diligence.

 

On Masks, there is plenty written that masks are more dangerous than the benefit, eg, you keep inhaling your CO2.

for example, this morning.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/02/enough_is_enough_time_to_finally_follow_the_science_on_masks.html

 

everybody should do what they feel is best for them. However, to evaluate it all you really need to look at evidence from all sides before making your decision.

 

That's the "do your own due diligence" part.  The main stream  media in general is not necessarily a reliable source.

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to "trust the science" in that article when they call COVID-19 the "Wuhan Flu" in the first couple of paragraphs. It's a coronavirus, not a flu....

[ArthurUSCG]

19 hours ago, SeaHunt said:

 

I saw a TV news clip with a Texas Trauma Surgeon who agrees with you - in another article she also said that she had people coming to the ER for other reasons - falls, auto accidents, etc. - who had no idea that their lungs were in such bad shape after Covid (even asymptomatic Covid):

 

"Texas trauma surgeon Dr. Brittany Bankhead-Kendall says it’s a rarity that any of her COVID-19 patients X-rays come back without dense scarring.

 

In one of her Twitter posts, she says “post-covid lungs look worse than any type of terrible smokers lung we’ve ever seen.”

 

“Everyone’s just so worried about the mortality thing and that’s terrible and it’s awful. But man, and all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is, it’s going to be a problem,” Dr. Bankhead-Kendall said.

 

Like many, she’s treated thousands of patients since March.

 

Of them, she tells CBS 11 News those who have had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time. And those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70 to 80% of the time.

 

“There are still people who say ‘I’m fine I don’t have any issues’ and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray,” she said".

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/01/13/texas-trauma-surgeon-says-post-covid-lungs-look-worse-than-any-type-of-terrible-smokers-lung-weve-ever-seen/

Yep, people keep looking at the deaths and not what the survivors of the virus are dealing with long term. It's not just lung damage, there is heart and brain damage, along with long term blood clot issues that are being tracked. The lung damage is easier to spot because of how it shows up on common x-rays.

 

My neighbor has trouble making it from her car and up the 4 steps into her house, after getting covid back before christmas.

Edited March 1, 2021 by ArthurUSCG

[HMR74]

26 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Hard to "trust the science" in that article when they call COVID-19 the "Wuhan Flu" in the first couple of paragraphs. It's a coronavirus, not a flu....

ah, do not be so set in your evaluation of the problem by tagging what they call it.

 Dig deeper, but you are entitled to your opinions as am I.

 

[JamieLogical]

9 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

ah, do not be so set in your evaluation of the problem by tagging what they call it.

 Dig deeper, but you are entitled to your opinions as am I.

 

 

 I just find it hard to take the article as any sort of objective, serious scientific analysis when the author immediately starts off with inflammatory, inaccurate language. It alerts me that there may be some bias in the presentation of this information.

[AdoraBelle]

3 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

 I just find it hard to take the article as any sort of objective, serious scientific analysis when the author immediately starts off with inflammatory, inaccurate language. It alerts me that there may be some bias in the presentation of this information.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Thinker

 

Pretty much tells you all you need to know about that 'source'.

[AdoraBelle]

17 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

ah, do not be so set in your evaluation of the problem by tagging what they call it.

 

Words matter. 

17 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

Dig deeper, but you are entitled to your opinions as am I.

The battle cry of the conspiracy theorist. "Dig deeper" means "find sources that agree with your internal belief system and biases, even if they are sketchy as hell". 

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

 

Words matter. 

The battle cry of the conspiracy theorist. "Dig deeper" means "find sources that agree with your internal belief system and biases, even if they are sketchy as hell". 

I hate to break it to you, but confirmation bias is everywhere these days. I have friends, many of them, who will dismiss any article posted on Foxnews.com and then tell me that Slate, CNN, Huffington Post and the Daily Kos are all "impartial." Right, and I've got a bridge to sell ya, too.

 

[HMR74]

go ahead and attack. Tells me all I need to know.

 

If you want to go on a cruise and wear a mask the entire time, go ahead.

The CDC already stated that on a cruise the only time masks are required are during embarkation and disembarkation. Yeah, with all the other restrictions they are putting on cruise lines, all 68 pages of them, I find that one odd.

But my comments were to make you think for yourself, not comeback with a critique that you do not like someone naming it Wuhan or that the source is a conservative group.

 

 

But if you want to wear a mask, make certain its at least n95 quality and you wear it tight and you change it often. Like daily.

 

 

For the lungs issue, if one smoked and was exposed to asbestos dust, that person has a 100 times higher risk of mesothelioma, that ether just smoking or just being exposed to asbestos. That's not told anywhere and people in their 70's and 80's were exposed to both as for example ceiling tiles are dusty and used to be made of asbestos, and back then when we used to fly or go anywhere, there were smokers everywhere.

 

The pulseoximeter someone mentioned I think here, helps a little, but if you really want to check yourself out, see if you can climb 3 flights of stairs without getting winded.  It could be your overall physical conditioning, or damaged lungs.

 

The people saying or thinking wait a few days, including Fauci, did a huge disservice. He did that to keep hospitals from getting crowded--with sick people needing help. He achieved his objective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by HMR74

[JamieLogical]

8 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

go ahead and attack. Tells me all I need to know.

 

I was not attacking anyone. I was exercising critical thinking. If information is touted as objective and scientific, but is then couched in inflammatory language, it seems appropriate to then question the bias and motives of the author. Just like you say we should be questioning what we read in the main stream media. If the provider of information is explicitly demonstrating an agenda, we need to take the information they are presenting with a grain of salt. I would encourage all people to evaluate not only the information they are consuming, but who they are getting it from. Be analytical in how you process that information.

[macandlucy]

I've read a lot of scientific papers about masks. I know that the advice to "wear a mask" is not sufficient advice because there's rarely any detail about what kind of mask one should wear.  Some fabrics filter about 14% -- that's not enough. Fit matters, too. The latest (ie two masks) advice to wear a surgical mask underneath a cloth mask is better, but it's still not thorough.

 

Like all science, it takes a while to reach consensus, and mask studies are no different. I've read a bunch. The much touted (by anti maskers) Danish study didn't impress me because of the study design (subjects were given surgical masks ((not effective enough)), and they self reported on their mask-wearing compliance ((people are not always accurate or honest about behavior)).  

 

If you don't want to read scientific journals or you don't have confidence in your ability to assess the validity or reliability of a study, then just rely on logic. Why do health care workers who work in a high risk for catching covid environment, like a hospital or clinic full of people with symptomatic covid, demand N95 masks? Because they are useless? Because they don't do a good job at filtering aerosolized virus? No, because they are the best we have, short of a self-contained bio hazard suit.. Similarly, why aren't they content to wear a simple cloth mask, or surgical mask?  They don't follow the generic "wear a mask" advice, and neither should we. Instead, wear a good mask!

 

The safest thing to do, is avoid other humans until you are vaccinated (and give your body a couple weeks after that to build some antibodies). If you can't avoid them, distance, ventilation and a really good mask. Limit the time you spend with others. Yes, wash your hands before touching food or your face. (Fomite transmission isn't the primary driver, but it still exists).

 

It's now a matter of weeks to a few months until we lucky ones can all get our vaccines, in the meantime, can't we all, for this final stretch just please do everything we can to NOT catch covid. And if you do catch it, do everything you can to NOT spread it.  

 

All safety protocols + vaccination is how we get out of this as quickly as possible.

[macandlucy]

21 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

on a different issue, but not too different as it was a conspiracy last year, HCQ Hydroxichloriquine, and Ivermectin, have been approved for use with the addition of taking Zinc pills and Vit C. or a Z Pak.

 

Last year these was widely criticized.

Turns out both are very safe and Ivermectin is as close to 100% effectiveness as it can be.

 

Had these two conspiracy theory drugs been used early on  by people in trouble last year, we woudl have had fewer lung problems, fewer hospitalizations and reduced death count.

 

Neither is permanent, but it appears w=neither will be the EUA vaccines.

 

Assuming we will sail again, or just go an a vacation anywhere, I will be taking both HCQ and Ivermectin, along with my usual take along , fresh CIPRO.

 

Say we are on a cruise and there is an outbreak of something--how long do we think the line will  be to see the ships doctor and you definitely want this treatment asap, to prevent the lung damage discussed herein

 

 

 

 

I think the degree to which politics has entered into this pandemic is both bizarre and tragic.  

[goldmom]

When I want to learn about something I try to read articles and information from both sides, pro and con and figure the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Everyone should do there own research and then do what they feel comfortable doing.

 

I, for one, was very comfortable getting the vaccine, but understand if others are uncomfortable with getting it.

 

Hoping that everyone stays safe and healthy and that we can all cruise again in the near future.

[latebloomer56]

I just listen to my Dr.'s think it's a trust thing both told me the same thing. Distance, mask, extra washing period. Follow common sense don't go to large functions (for now) avoid groups that don't think this is real (some still don't) and stay as safe as possible. I have COPD and am in remission, I read nothing as it is different daily. I trust my Dr.'s and have my family follow same advice. We hope to be able to sail the end of Oct.

Take care regardless of what you personally believe and safety protocols you follow.

Stay safe.

 

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, HMR74 said:

the latest inexpensive vitamin is Lysine, which is supposed to work again most viruses.

Do your own diligence.

 

On Masks, there is plenty written that masks are more dangerous than the benefit, eg, you keep inhaling your CO2.

for example, this morning.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/02/enough_is_enough_time_to_finally_follow_the_science_on_masks.html

 

everybody should do what they feel is best for them. However, to evaluate it all you really need to look at evidence from all sides before making your decision.

 

That's the "do your own due diligence" part.  The main stream  media in general is not necessarily a reliable source.

 

 

 

 

What I have discovered throughout these mask discussions and debates is that half the articles and videos claim masks do no harm whatsoever and the other half claim they do harm. You will always find something to back up your agenda.

 

Having said that, I tend to believe the "do no harm" articles and videos. The reason is because medical professionals have been wearing masks for many years, for hours at a time. No one, as far as I am aware has ever been harmed by wearing a mask for all those hours. Think of the surgeons who wear masks for hours without a break. I certainly don't want any surgeon working one me who could pass out at any given time because of CO2 toxicity or lack of oxygen. It just does not happen.

 

This is what happens to your oxygen saturation when you wear a mask, or two or six.......

This is what happens to your oxygen content when you wear a mask or two or six.