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Mandatory vaccination


armwinder
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The better my mask protects me, the better it protects others.

 

If you wear a mask that doesn’t protect you from aerosols, you aren’t protecting anyone else from aerosols either. A flimsy mask does not even provide great droplet containment. 
 

Good news is that you can get very good protection, >90% from a well made, tight weave cotton, well fitted cloth mask. And if you wear a surgical mask under a two layer tight fitting cloth mask, you can get excellent protection from that too. It’s smart to wear that yourself until a few weeks post vaccination. 
 

Whether you think of it as protecting yourself or protecting others, it’s the same. A good mask helps, a crummy mask doesn’t do much for anyone.

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Cyprus will allow British tourists to holiday with both vaccinations from May 1st 2021, however it is illegal to travel from the U.K. until May 17th 2021.

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4 hours ago, Trimone said:

Cyprus will allow British tourists to holiday with both vaccinations from May 1st 2021, however it is illegal to travel from the U.K. until May 17th 2021.

It’s illegal to leave the UK??

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39 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

It’s illegal to leave the UK??

 

No, it's only illegal to travel overseas for holidays & leisure purposes, essential travel is allowed which includes many work reasons.
As the foreign office advise against overseas travel we would struggle to get insurance that covers the trip though.

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18 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Unless you are wearing an N95, you aren't really protecting yourself very effectively. Masks are primarily worn to protect others. It seems fairly selfish to only wear a mask to protect yourself. When you don't wear a mask, you are potentially exposing others, whether they are wearing masks or not. Until N95 masks are readily available to everyone, they have no way of protecting themselves from you if you refuse to wear a mask. Hopefully, if they encounter you on a cruise ship, this won't be an issue, because they will have been vaccinated. But right now, in the US, only 8% of the population has been fully vaccinated and vaccine and N95 supply is limited. So hopefully you aren't employing this "only wear a mask to protect myself" strategy in the current environment.

That makes no sense.  How does a mask on me protect  you when a mask on you doesn't?

The whole concept of wearing a mask to protect others is only a narrative designed to shame everyone to wear a mask and has no basis in physics or engineering.

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9 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That makes no sense.  How does a mask on me protect  you when a mask on you doesn't?

The whole concept of wearing a mask to protect others is only a narrative designed to shame everyone to wear a mask and has no basis in physics or engineering.

 

EXIuUKwWsAUo1-3.jpg

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2 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

No, it's only illegal to travel overseas for holidays & leisure purposes, essential travel is allowed which includes many work reasons.
As the foreign office advise against overseas travel we would struggle to get insurance that covers the trip though.

I've been waiting for a tech to come from London to work on a piece of equipment we have in the US for 6 months now Lol

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19 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That makes no sense.  How does a mask on me protect  you when a mask on you doesn't?

The whole concept of wearing a mask to protect others is only a narrative designed to shame everyone to wear a mask and has no basis in physics or engineering.

Quite a bit of science out there in the world of occupational safety actually, where NIOSH established respiratory ratings including those for N95/R95/P95 "masks", which are deemed to be capable of filtering 95% of airborne particles. 

 

Having been involved in industrial PPE (personal protective equipment) for a couple of decades, I chose to personally purchase R95 'masks' in January 2020 upon hearing of a potential upcoming pandemic-level virus.  R95 effectively provide a broader spectrum of protection than N95, as they are designed to include all the protection of a N95 rated device, plus the capability of filtering oil-based particles.  They are, however, a bit more difficult to breath through than N95 respirators, and possibly overkill for respiratory droplet protection, but in January 2020, we knew little about the virus.

 

Nonetheless, fitment is key to any respiratory device.  Unless you can make a 'seal' to the face, the 95% is not attainable.  Failure to bend the metal nose bridge to seal off gaps or the presence of facial hair that prevent an adequate seal are common areas that cause a reduction in effectiveness.  

 

Though NIOSH does not rate common "cloth" masks, I have seen tests revealing performance as low as 16% filtration effectiveness, let alone the drop in effectiveness from the significant gaps that typically exist around those masks.  Any mask, however, has the capability of 'potentially' stopping some level of outbound respiratory droplets, and filtering some level of inbound particles.

 

@RocketMan275, perhaps do some googling about how respiratory devices can be effective personal protection equipment.  The world of occupational safety in this country has proven their utility.  Be well.

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47 minutes ago, moto_italia said:

 

 

@RocketMan275, perhaps do some googling about how respiratory devices can be effective personal protection equipment.  The world of occupational safety in this country has proven their utility.  Be well.

I'm  not debating that PPE provides protection.  Do you have any data that proves me wearing a mask protect you but does not protect me?

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6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm  not debating that PPE provides protection.  Do you have any data that proves me wearing a mask protect you but does not protect me?

I don't actually retain a database of information, but have found many resources over the years to answer my questions.  The National Safety Council is a great resource (https://www.nsc.org/) as is The National Personal Protective Technology Laboratory (NPPTL - https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/default.html), which is part of the CDC.  Both would be considered reliable resources in my book.  There are others.

Please post back any information you glean from your inquiries / research.  Best of luck.

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This all "officially" began last March.  The government brought out some scientists who were VERY respected in world-wide scientific communities and had spent MANY years tracking and trying to eliminate viral outbreaks both in our country and other countries.  These people told us 2 things that stick in my mind.  The first was that this outbreak would probably last approximately 12 to 18 months.  We are currently at 12 months.  They also said ( and people didn't believe this) that IF WE DID EVERYTHING CORRECTLY, we would still probably have about 200,000 people die from complications of this outbreak.  Today, we are at over 500,000, so I guess we have NOT DONE EVERYTHING CORRECTLY.  And we are still debating whether wearing a mask can help.  Hard to believe.

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13 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm  not debating that PPE provides protection.  Do you have any data that proves me wearing a mask protect you but does not protect me?

Like you, I was under the impression that my wearing a mask protects both others AND me.

This infectious disease doctor suggests that's true. It might be that it protects others IN ADDITION TO the wearer, and to a greater degree than the wearer, but it's not either/or.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-face-masks-actually-protect-me-or-just-those-around-me/

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Most people would agree that wearing 2 masks is better than wearing 1 mask.  So, if you wear 1 and I wear 1, then that is 2 masks.  Simple.  (Just like having a seatbelt and an air bag).  Two layers of protection.  Socially distance and now we have three layers of protection.  Get vaccinated, and we have 4 layers of protection.  That is probably enough layers.  But if someone does not want to participate in one of the layers, then we lose a layer somewhere.

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1 hour ago, Laszlo said:

I've been waiting for a tech to come from London to work on a piece of equipment we have in the US for 6 months now Lol

 

That's probably more the US rules than the UK laws, while we can travel for certain work it does rely on the receiving country accepting the arrival. 

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39 minutes ago, teacherman said:

Most people would agree that wearing 2 masks is better than wearing 1 mask.  So, if you wear 1 and I wear 1, then that is 2 masks.  Simple.  (Just like having a seatbelt and an air bag).  Two layers of protection.  Socially distance and now we have three layers of protection.  Get vaccinated, and we have 4 layers of protection.  That is probably enough layers.  But if someone does not want to participate in one of the layers, then we lose a layer somewhere.

The question is 'how much better are two masks'?  Is that additional protection worthwhile?

Another point is, if you think you need two layers of protection, then wear two masks and don't try to make someone else wear one or two.  Your protection is your responsibility.

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2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The question is 'how much better are two masks'?  Is that additional protection worthwhile?

Another point is, if you think you need two layers of protection, then wear two masks and don't try to make someone else wear one or two.  Your protection is your responsibility.

In our collective society, an effort by me to protect others is my responsibility, whether it is driving safely or wearing a mask during this pandemic period of time we collectively find ourselves in.    

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Are two masks better than one?  I would answer, "It depends". 

 

If someone wore two masks that each had a filtration rating of say 20%, would that be as effective as someone with a single N95/R95/P95 which carries a 95% rating?  I would argue "No", based on filtration capability.

 

If someone wore two masks very loosely (with obvious gaps) and no real "seal" around the mouth and nose, would it be as effective as someone that wore a single mask of similar filtration rating that was worn with a proper seal?  Here I would say "It Depends", but having learned through Occupational Safety education about how PPE effectiveness is largely dependent upon a proper fit of the device to an individual's face, I lean toward saying "No".

 

Some work environments not only require a certain level of mask rating, but also require that the mask be individually fitted to the employee (not all faces and heads are the same shape and size), and pass a Respirator Fit Test.  https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.134AppA 

 

Thus, two masks are not necessarily better than one.

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4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

What an absurd analogy.

 

BTW,  you'll have nothing to fear from catching the virus from me.  My second pfizer shot is in two weeks.  

 

RocketMan275.  It is my understanding from the "experts" that there is no proof that having a shot stops the transmission of the virus.

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3 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

 

RocketMan275.  It is my understanding from the "experts" that there is no proof that having a shot stops the transmission of the virus.

Nor, do the 'experts' have any proof that it does not stop the transmission.  That feature has not been tested so no one, not even the 'experts', know.

Even St. Fauci now says that when groups of vaccinated people get together, they do not have to wear masks.

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1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Nor, do the 'experts' have any proof that it does not stop the transmission.  That feature has not been tested so no one, not even the 'experts', know.

right and until we do, it would make sense to continue wearing masks to help protect the unvaccinated.  In fact - if we have vaccinated people walking around without a mask, how do we know if the person next to us in the aisle at the supermarket not wearing a mask is vaccinated or just taking advantage of the relaxed rules?  You KNOW people will do that...

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VAccines will protect you , BUT you can still be a SPREADER with no symptoms, what I have read repeatedly, check with CDC.  Only for information, not debate.  Thus why masks still highly recommended for all.

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If you got a vaccine, it prevents you from getting ill if you contract the virus. You still carry the virus and could still spread it to others. 

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12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That makes no sense.  How does a mask on me protect  you when a mask on you doesn't? The whole concept of wearing a mask to protect others is only a narrative designed to shame everyone to wear a mask and has no basis in physics or engineering.

For the same reason a doctor would wear a mask while doing surgery. In keeps the doctors’s germs to your self.
 

Many airlines do not allow you to wear bandanas or gator masks any longer because they don’t contain your germs. A mask needs to fit snugly around your face. Tightly. Covering your nose and mouth,,, tightly. Keep your germs to yourself. 

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13 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That makes no sense.  How does a mask on me protect  you when a mask on you doesn't?

The whole concept of wearing a mask to protect others is only a narrative designed to shame everyone to wear a mask and has no basis in physics or engineering.

Not the way I see it. This is a report from the CDC about those two hair stylists who were Covid positive and continued to work on their customers. The stylists wore masks and their customers wore masks. These people were in close contact as hair dressers and their customers always are. The results are very interesting.

 

Absence of apparent transmission of SARS CoV-2

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