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Will Princess Cruises follow????


Shaver John
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7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

But their parents do. Not allowing kids will mean the family will choose a land vacation.

How many parents do you think are going to put their unvaccinated children on a cruise ship in the first place?  I don't know for sure, but I believe the main demographic for Princess is seniors and maybe their adult children.  I've not seen too many young children on my previous Princess cruises.  Again, I just don't see children being a major block to making the decision to require vaccinated PAX only during the initial phases of the start up.

Edited by Daniel A
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How many of those 3 & 4 person rooms have all adult occupants? That's where the kids are when not in the kids club, family zone, splash zone, at backyard games. Of course they aren't in crooners or at trivia!

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8 hours ago, caribill said:

Exactly.

I heard about this last week and the first thing I thought of was J&J knows their efficacy is no where close to the mRNA vaccines. I thought J&J thinking was the only way they can market their vaccine is to see if a double dose becomes >94% efficacy. 

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34 minutes ago, AZjohn said:

Exactly.

I heard about this last week and the first thing I thought of was J&J knows their efficacy is no where close to the mRNA vaccines. I thought J&J thinking was the only way they can market their vaccine is to see if a double dose becomes >94% efficacy. 

That's why I wasn't keen on getting the J&J vaccine if I had a choice.  J&J is better than nothing, but at present, I can't say it's better than Moderna or Pfizer.  Astra Zeneca seems to be experiencing some difficulty with some variants.  How well will J&J do against variants? 

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2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

How many parents do you think are going to put their unvaccinated children on a cruise ship in the first place?  I don't know for sure, but I believe the main demographic for Princess is seniors and maybe their adult children.  I've not seen too many young children on my previous Princess cruises.  Again, I just don't see children being a major block to making the decision to require vaccinated PAX only during the initial phases of the start up.

 

The same parents that are willing to have their children attend school in person.

 

I agree it will not be a major part of Princess' decisipon to start cruising again, but they will need to announce some policy.

 

And I have been on Princess cruises with over 600 children (under 18) on board. Of course some of them were 16 and 17 who currently can get one of the vaccines.

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So another view on this: PCL, HAL, and CCL are all part of Carnival Corporation. If they don't let us cruise on 1 branch will they let us transfer FCC to another line? Makes no sense for the 6 yo to have FCC that cannot be used. 

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1 hour ago, AZjohn said:

Exactly.

I heard about this last week and the first thing I thought of was J&J knows their efficacy is no where close to the mRNA vaccines. I thought J&J thinking was the only way they can market their vaccine is to see if a double dose becomes >94% efficacy. 

My comment has nothing to do with cruising ::

 

I thought the best marketing tool J&J had was that despite lower efficacy #s with 1 dose than others with 2 doses it was (1) more portable as it did not require extreme low temps (2) 66% against new SA variant 

 

Pfizer may have punched a hole in that

Edited by Ombud
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18 hours ago, wowzz said:

No, what it means is that two shots are required, but that the second shot, as per the Israeli study, is more efficacious if administered 12 weeks after the first shot. 

Keep in mind that the Israeli study is reporting observed results in a limited time frame, and is not a study to determine efficacy.  You are talking about time related measurements in a vaccine population that has been vaccinated in only a couple of months.  I would not be surprised if difference will fade given with a little more time after the second injection.

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8 minutes ago, Ombud said:

My comment has nothing to do with cruising ::

 

I thought the best marketing tool J&J had was that despite lower efficacy #s with 1 dose than others with 2 doses it was (1) more portable as it did not require extreme low temps (2) 66% against new SA variant 

 

Pfizer may have punched a hole in that

While Pfizer has gotten better storage requirements based upon more stability testing there is still a significant difference between the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines and J&J when it comes to ease of handling and storage.

 

Pfizer will not be in the same ballpark until they can get a lyophilized (basically freeze dried) version completed.  That is the standard approach to improve stability on deep frozen products.

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33 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

The same parents that are willing to have their children attend school in person.

 

There is a risk to benefit analysis that factors in here.  What are the long term effects of children not having peer to peer contact and socialization at in person education?  What are the long term effects of children not being able to go on a cruise?  I've never heard of children becoming depressed and harming themselves because they didn't get to go to Princess Cay this year.  (Please don't read this as my being snarky, I do appreciate your points, I'm just making the distinction between the two concepts clear.)  I believe parents will believe the benefits of returning their children to in person learning outweighs the risks involved.  I think the CDC agrees with me on that...🙄 

Edited by Daniel A
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10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

 

In the industry there is no such thing as good enough.

 

A pharmaceutical company is always trying to improve  their product.  For example you have Pfizer running stability tests to improve their storage and stability requirements.  I expect that they are also working on  lyophilized version that would allow them to use normal refrigeration, instead of frozen.

 

J&J likewise is working on improving their efficacy.  I suspect both in two dose trials as well as the next generation product.  If they were to have two approved protocols, both a single dose and a dual dose along with their advantage in handling it would give them a substantial commercial advantage.

 

Also keep in mind with their clinical trials they were tested in locations with strong variant presence, so unlike the Pfizer and Moderna they actually have clinical trial results that do show efficacy in those variants.  Compared to Pfizer and Moderna who is basing their expectations with the variants on lab testing.

 

Any company that wants to survive has to keep working to improve the qualities of their product, otherwise they will cease to exist in the market.  These companies are not looking at the next 6 months, when all production is needed, but instead 6 to 12 months out when production capability has caught up and buyers can pick and choose what version to use.

 

 

Edited by nocl
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1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

That's why I wasn't keen on getting the J&J vaccine if I had a choice.  J&J is better than nothing, but at present, I can't say it's better than Moderna or Pfizer.  Astra Zeneca seems to be experiencing some difficulty with some variants.  How well will J&J do against variants? 

J&J actually has Clinical trial efficacy results against the SA variant, something neither Moderna or Pfizer does.

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On 2/20/2021 at 12:04 PM, Ombud said:

I don't have a real ID. During shutdown I was able to renew my license but not upgrade to real ID. Nothing political, office was just closed and I have a valid passport so no need to rush in

 

23 hours ago, ontheweb said:

When my license expired, the DMV was closed. They finally opened up by appointment and for county residents only. I was asked if I wanted the enhance license. When I said I had a passport that was still valid for 9 years, I was told that there was no need to pay an extra fee to have my license enhanced to real id.

Sorry for any confusion, I was not referencing the impact of Covid on the Real ID. I was just relaying my concern about implementing any requirement across the US. (Many things are being deferred during the pandemic for safety reasons)

Congress modified federal law requiring the Real ID requirements in May 2005.  They continued to allow waivers.  15 years later and it is still not fully implemented.  The fact that all drivers licenses in all states do not meet the requirements of the Real ID law is telling in itself.  As far as I know, it was not the intent of the law to have two different kind of drivers license’s being issued.  All driver licenses were to be verified, so that they could be used as a reliable valid identification.  

Edited by jagoffee
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12 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

The fact that all drivers licenses in all states do not meet the requirements of the Real ID law is telling in itself.  As far as I know, it was not the intent of the law to have two different kind of drivers license’s being issued.  All driver licenses were to be verified, so that they could be used as a reliable valid identification.  

I think there was an accommodation being made for states that decided to issue driver licenses to undocumented aliens.  New York is one of those states.  I have the enhanced driver license from NY which goes beyond Real ID.  Actually, New York now has three different licenses: enhanced which replaces a need for a passport at land and sea points of entry to the US, real id which permits access to air travel and all federal properties and the third is labeled 'not for federal purposes'

Enhanced, REAL ID and Standard Licenses

Edited by Daniel A
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On 2/20/2021 at 1:26 PM, ontheweb said:

When my license expired, the DMV was closed. They finally opened up by appointment and for county residents only. I was asked if I wanted the enhance license. When I said I had a passport that was still valid for 9 years, I was told that there was no need to pay an extra fee to have my license enhanced to real id.

Actually, check your driver license.  If you have a star in the upper right corner of the license it is a 'Real ID' it's just not an 'enhanced' license.  See the difference in my above post.

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17 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

 

Sorry for any confusion, I was not referencing the impact of Covid on the Real ID. I was just relaying my concern about implementing any requirement across the US. (Many things are being deferred during the pandemic for safety reasons)

Congress modified federal law requiring the Real ID requirements in May 2005.  They continued to allow waivers.  15 years later and it is still not fully implemented.  The fact that all drivers licenses in all states do not meet the requirements of the Real ID law is telling in itself.  As far as I know, it was not the intent of the law to have two different kind of drivers license’s being issued.  All driver licenses were to be verified, so that they could be used as a reliable valid identification.  

Yeah. California had an issue with the rollout. My daughter got a RealID then was notified that some people did not verify legal status so none of those issued at that time were valid. Then her renewal was still a RealID so who knows if it's valid??

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Not only Princess, but I think that the CDC will require that any individual cruising out of the United States, over the age of 16 years be vaccinated.  The question is what about children and teenagers.  

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1 hour ago, stevenr597 said:

Not only Princess, but I think that the CDC will require that any individual cruising out of the United States, over the age of 16 years be vaccinated.  The question is what about children and teenagers.  

 

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I have a Caribbean cruise booked for 7/2021.  If I am unable to receive vaccination by that time because of availability as the task force is saying there is a difference between receiving the vaccine and getting it into people's arms, will the cruise lines refund to me 100% of my payment.  I am very jealous of all of you that have received your shots but I cannot get a reservation from any of the web sites I have signed up on.  I am 76 with COPD and a history of lung cancer so I naively thought I would be one of the first in line. 

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7 minutes ago, gone2c said:

I have a Caribbean cruise booked for 7/2021.  If I am unable to receive vaccination by that time because of availability as the task force is saying there is a difference between receiving the vaccine and getting it into people's arms, will the cruise lines refund to me 100% of my payment.  I am very jealous of all of you that have received your shots but I cannot get a reservation from any of the web sites I have signed up on.  I am 76 with COPD and a history of lung cancer so I naively thought I would be one of the first in line. 

Have you tried McLennan County (Waco)? We are a hub, so anyone can be vaccinated here. You do have to sign up but it’s moving along. Luckily, I got my second shot just before Snowvid21 hit. 

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2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Actually, check your driver license.  If you have a star in the upper right corner of the license it is a 'Real ID' it's just not an 'enhanced' license.  See the difference in my above post.

No star, says in the corner not for federal purposes.

 

Like I said when I told them I had renewed my passport the prior year, they said I did not need anything extra.

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I still think the major cruise lines aren’t going to require a vaccine. It would rule out too many pax. Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian would lose most of their demographics due to kids being unvaccinated. Plus, pax in their 30s and 40s are the next set of potential lifelong cruisers and have therefore become the new target market for cruise lines . If cruise lines turn them away now, they could lose their window to hook them. Not to mention, many can not get the vaccine due to medical conditions.
 

Niche cruise lines can risk limiting their pax to vaccinated only, but I don’t think the mass market lines can take that risk. 

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13 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I still think the major cruise lines aren’t going to require a vaccine. It would rule out too many pax. Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian would lose most of their demographics due to kids being unvaccinated. Plus, pax in their 30s and 40s are the next set of potential lifelong cruisers and have therefore become the new target market for cruise lines . If cruise lines turn them away now, they could lose their window to hook them. Not to mention, many can not get the vaccine due to medical conditions.
 

Niche cruise lines can risk limiting their pax to vaccinated only, but I don’t think the mass market lines can take that risk. 

If a large portion of the current cruisers refuse to cruise without proof of vaccination then I will bet that cruise lines will go that way. There is no reason that the under 65 group cannot get vaccinated by the end of summer

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