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CDC Additional Technical Guidance Coming Any Day Now


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22 hours ago, molly361 said:

It will never happen but if no one would respond her threads would fade away  But a lot of folks get sucked in

 

22 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

 

It happens to the best of us 🤷‍♀️ 🤣

It’ll never happen to me again 

 

😎

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33 minutes ago, lizzius said:

Well, one, I'm not saying to cut them. I'm saying they are the highest risk passengers and vaccinations in that group seem to have the biggest effect on overall hospitalization rates and by far they make up the vast number of deaths from the virus... Vaccines for those passengers could be mandatory, but I believe the truth is if most adults don't get the vaccines cruises won't sail for quite some time since the incidence rate will be too high. The problem will need to be solved among that group of people: get vaccinated, or none of us can go back to normal. In the face of that, a mandate seems useless.

 

And like it or not, even if you have the vaccine, as an older person the data seems to say there is still chance enough you could require advanced medical care that a ship should be prepared for it.

 

And two, this thread is full of people who seem to think kids shouldn't be able to sail despite the risk to them from the virus being minimal. You, as a vaccinated 60 year old, carry more medical risk from the virus that an unvaccinated 12 year old. 

I think this is a no win topic. I said let the kids under 18 sail if a vaccine isnt approved if the rest are vaccinated. Studies show they arent big spreaders.

 

Though I said I think cruiselines will have more access to vaccines after everyone here has them, and be able to buy enough doses for the crew and was accused of not caring about the crew to not require it for crew to board. Crew can board for mock cruises and the lines can give them the vaccine which might be sooner than staying home if they get it from cruiselines before pax board). Or maybe put them in hotels while they get vaccine, but I believe this will be worked out, despite those who think no.

 

I think there is a lot of good news out there and many want to concentrate on only bad news and worrying about the details which I think will work themselves out and by fall we will have answers. A vaccine for under 18 will also have a completed study by fall imo and that will work itself out.

 

I've heard many reasons why our leaders are pretending the news now isnt good news, even it was said today if they acknowledged the good news people would become complacent.  I still think this works itself out. Let those who love to be negative and throw stones begin.  

Edited by firefly333
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1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

I think this is a no win topic. I said let the kids under 18 sail if a vaccine isnt approved if the rest are vaccinated. Studies show they arent big spreaders.

 

Though I said I think cruiselines will have more access to vaccines after everyone here has them, and be able to buy enough doses for the crew and was accused of not caring about the crew to not require it for crew to board. 

 

I think there is a lot of good news out there and many want to concentrate on only bad news and worrying about the details which I think will work themselves out and by fall we will have answers. A vaccine for under 18 will also have a completed study by fall imo and that will work itself out.

 

I've heard many reasons why our leaders are pretending the news now isnt good news, even it was said today if they acknowledged the good news people would become complacent.  I still think this works itself out. Let those who love to be negative and throw stones begin.  

I would think just about all crew would probably want them, but I thought the same thing about healthcare workers and have been sorely disappointed. The crew is also an ecosystem of its own, depending on what the ship can provide for months at a time. I could see a requirement among crew being an easier sell.

 

I also think it's a mistake to "tailor" the message in a way that is intended to manipulate people... Fauci admitted to doing so with masks, and again when he said he admitted to nudging the herd immunity threshold one way or another to influence vaccine uptake. Even if it seems to help in the short term, it creates long term distrust (like we're experiencing now). The fatigue with the protocol we're all experiencing right now is partly because of this too: I'm sure you remember the "flatten the curve" campaign... Well, we're there. We should be talking about lifting restrictions, with the promise that you can safeguard your own health and avoid another fall wave if we all get vaccinated.

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49 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

 

It’ll never happen to me again 

 

😎

 

I'm hoping the same for me....although I may have deserved some of it.

Edited by bucfan2
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22 hours ago, molly361 said:

It will never happen but if no one would respond her threads would fade away  But a lot of folks get sucked in

 

22 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

 

It happens to the best of us 🤷‍♀️ 🤣

 

I've been getting sucked in, but have now learned my lesson. No more troll feeding for me! 

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15 minutes ago, lizzius said:

I would think just about all crew would probably want them, but I thought the same thing about healthcare workers and have been sorely disappointed. The crew is also an ecosystem of its own, depending on what the ship can provide for months at a time. I could see a requirement among crew being an easier sell.

 

I also think it's a mistake to "tailor" the message in a way that is intended to manipulate people... Fauci admitted to doing so with masks, and again when he said he admitted to nudging the herd immunity threshold one way or another to influence vaccine uptake. Even if it seems to help in the short term, it creates long term distrust (like we're experiencing now). The fatigue with the protocol we're all experiencing right now is partly because of this too: I'm sure you remember the "flatten the curve" campaign... Well, we're there. We should be talking about lifting restrictions, with the promise that you can safeguard your own health and avoid another fall wave if we all get vaccinated.

They could have the crew sign something they are willing to get the vaccine that the cruiseline will give to them. It can be worked out.

 

I agree the message is being stepped on to downplay the good results right now.

 

I heard a line today, florida is treating people like adults, speeding up giving out vaccines, unlike dallas. I like the line treating people like adults. History will judge who was right, those whose mantra is lock them down, or those who said open things up. I will never agree locking people down here was the right thing to do. Bring on the good results, week after week as cases go down.

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13 minutes ago, lizzius said:

I would think just about all crew would probably want them, but I thought the same thing about healthcare workers and have been sorely disappointed. The crew is also an ecosystem of its own, depending on what the ship can provide for months at a time. I could see a requirement among crew being an easier sell.

 

I also think it's a mistake to "tailor" the message in a way that is intended to manipulate people... Fauci admitted to doing so with masks, and again when he said he admitted to nudging the herd immunity threshold one way or another to influence vaccine uptake. Even if it seems to help in the short term, it creates long term distrust (like we're experiencing now). The fatigue with the protocol we're all experiencing right now is partly because of this too: I'm sure you remember the "flatten the curve" campaign... Well, we're there. We should be talking about lifting restrictions, with the promise that you can safeguard your own health and avoid another fall wave if we all get vaccinated.

Is Fauci really saying now that vaccinated people shouldn't dine indoors or go to the theater yet? I wonder if they will ever let businesses open up to support their families. 

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17 minutes ago, Vera/Lee said:

Is Fauci really saying now that vaccinated people shouldn't dine indoors or go to the theater yet? I wonder if they will ever let businesses open up to support their families. 

Frankly, I'm done with Fauci and all of the conflicting information.  I'm getting my 2nd Pfizer shot tomorrow and after March 15th, I'm having my grandson for a sleepover, getting a massage on the 20th, going out for my son' s birthday on the 26th, and on Easter having family over for a brunch and egg hunt.

I will continue to wear a mask in public, but not outdoors, and I will continue to stay away from crowds until we see how covid trends this spring.

But, I'm back to living my life a little more normally than I have this past year.

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30 minutes ago, Vera/Lee said:

Is Fauci really saying now that vaccinated people shouldn't dine indoors or go to the theater yet? I wonder if they will ever let businesses open up to support their families. 

He is, and if you read between the lines he's saying something along the lines of it's ok to see family without the social distancing precautions if you have both been vaccinated... Which implies that he would advise against vaccinated grandparents seeing adult children or grandchildren. Fauci is a fully vaccinated 80 year old... I don't believe for a second he would have any hesitation (other than purely political) to see his grandchildren, and could do so with minimal worry about his own health. It's purely to influence uptake among younger people, and not to disrupt our lives while we're all still holding on for the vaccine. I get it, but just say that part of it out loud instead of this doom and gloom nonsense.

Edited by lizzius
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Just now, FromSea2ShiningSea said:

 

Welcome back, Tree!  Did you make it back to California?

Thank you, not yet.  I made it across the border but I've been working in Washington state since Feb 6th. It's been two weeks of very long days in Seattle/Tacoma and no time for CC.  Now one last week in Bellingham but not as hectic.  I have just a few more days here and then, on Monday morning I'm making a beeline straight for home.  If I don't get my wife back to home and family soon she's gong to  divorce me.  She was already a little aggrieved that I agreed to stay here for these 3 weeks. Someone was pressing on me last night to stay another 2 weeks to help with their new program.  I didn't even look at her.  I know what her response would be.

 

Sorry for the intrusion into this CDC discussion.

 

Now back to the our regularly scheduled debating

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1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

 

It’ll never happen to me again 

 

😎

 

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

Don't do it!!

 

1 hour ago, bucfan2 said:

 

I'm hoping the same for me....although I may have deserved some of it.

 

1 hour ago, lr657 said:

 

I've been getting sucked in, but have now learned my lesson. No more troll feeding for me! 

 

Where do I place my wager? I got some extra vacation $$$ burning a hole in my pocket 😉

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1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

 

 

Where do I place my wager? I got some extra vacation $$$ burning a hole in my pocket 😉

I promise my friend, if you bet against me exercising restraint, you're going to lose money.  🙂 

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1 hour ago, Vera/Lee said:

Is Fauci really saying now that vaccinated people shouldn't dine indoors or go to the theater yet? I wonder if they will ever let businesses open up to support their families. 

Yes, said it yesterday

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/02/22/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-6/

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1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

I promise my friend, if you bet against me exercising restraint, you're going to lose money.  🙂 

 

Never say never again.😉

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22 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Never say never again.😉

 

Sean Connery last James Bond film. 12 years after he said he'd never play James Bond again. 

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7 hours ago, Patty00 said:

Perhaps everyone is forgetting that RC choose not to register in the U.S. thus avoiding taxes.  Maybe if they had, things would be different.  Stimulus checks, less restrictive sailing rules and more defined "test cruises" to start immediately.  I believe that if RC was  American registered, then things would be moving along more quickly with the CDC.  I still feel that mandatory vaccination cards are going to be a must for cruising.

The whole "they don't pay taxes" argument is old, tired, and completely false.  Please let it go.

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27 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The whole "they don't pay taxes" argument is old, tired, and completely false.  Please let it go.

Let's see.  How does a cruise line earn revenue?  On ships, or am I wrong?  Is there another revenue stream?  Don't think so.  So, what does Section 883 of the IRS code say?  Revenue earned in the US by a foreign flag vessel operator is exempt from income tax.  So, if the one and only source of revenue that a cruise line generates is tax exempt, do you really think they pay much tax?

 

CLIA has even stated in their economic impact reports that the vast majority of taxes paid to federal, state, and local jurisdictions are:  property tax on the corporate headquarters building, and the social security withholding of US employees.

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7 hours ago, Patty00 said:

Perhaps everyone is forgetting that RC choose not to register in the U.S. thus avoiding taxes.  Maybe if they had, things would be different.  Stimulus checks, less restrictive sailing rules and more defined "test cruises" to start immediately.  I believe that if RC was  American registered, then things would be moving along more quickly with the CDC.  I still feel that mandatory vaccination cards are going to be a must for cruising.

So, what you are actually saying is that the whole shutdown is political. Why else would the country of incorporation make any difference? Should not health concerns about a cruise ship be universal regardless of country of origin? If what you are saying is true then the CDC is nothing more than just another political organization. Hmmm, I wonder. 🤔

 

I do agree with you about the mandatory vaccinations.

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12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's see.  How does a cruise line earn revenue?  On ships, or am I wrong?  Is there another revenue stream?  Don't think so.  So, what does Section 883 of the IRS code say?  Revenue earned in the US by a foreign flag vessel operator is exempt from income tax.  So, if the one and only source of revenue that a cruise line generates is tax exempt, do you really think they pay much tax?

 

CLIA has even stated in their economic impact reports that the vast majority of taxes paid to federal, state, and local jurisdictions are:  property tax on the corporate headquarters building, and the social security withholding of US employees.

I guess I should have been more clear.  Rather than specifying “taxes” I should have stated “overall financial impact”

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13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's see.  How does a cruise line earn revenue?  On ships, or am I wrong?  Is there another revenue stream?  Don't think so.  So, what does Section 883 of the IRS code say?  Revenue earned in the US by a foreign flag vessel operator is exempt from income tax.  So, if the one and only source of revenue that a cruise line generates is tax exempt, do you really think they pay much tax?

 

CLIA has even stated in their economic impact reports that the vast majority of taxes paid to federal, state, and local jurisdictions are:  property tax on the corporate headquarters building, and the social security withholding of US employees.

 

Also billions in docking fees/taxes in America. 

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Hello,

 

It was a long time ago when I worked for a firm of ship brokers here in the UK.

 

A ship entering the port paid dock dues based on its size, weight of cargo and number of passengers (if any). The also paid 'Light Dues' going to Trinity House for the upkeep of lighthouses around our coast on a similar basis.

 

Both these had an uplift of 20% for foreign registered vessels.

 

Perhaps something similar happens in the US?

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Also billions in docking fees/taxes in America. 

Billions?  Read CLIA's economic impact study for 2019, where the total number of embarkations that year, in the US, was 13 million.  Using the Port of Miami figure of $12.75/passenger as the port tax, that comes out to $165 million.  And, "port fees" are just that, a fee for a service, it is a business expense, not a tax.  The same report states that the combined taxes paid to US federal, state, and local jurisdictions and US employee wages totaled $1.9 billion.

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